Hermie after Hermie after Hermie

GoatCheese said:

So, basically you're claiming that over fertilization and wrong pH does not stress the plant.

Go to DJ Short sub-forum here and tell the fan-boys that DJ has hermie genetics and that over feeding Blueberry does not cause them to hermie at all. I bet you'll get ton of arguments against that view. Passionate arguments, i'd say. LOL

I've read it's especially Nitrogen over dose that can make plants hermie, like i already wrote.


Also, it's the AMOUNT of stress the plant goes thru, so it can be many factors at once that will cause them enough stress to go hermi.

Some plants are more sensitive than others, like i wrote in the post.

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Guys a different question ,is it true that a plants dark period will not get interupted when using a green led light. Because that could be the second mistake i made...

Here are some pictures of leaves from 3, different plants. Maybe someone can tell me what that means.

psychopro said:

Guys a different question, is it true that a plants dark period will not get interupted when using a green led light. Because that could be the second mistake i made...

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I would say that all light affects plants, so yes, a mistake ─ to be put down to experience...

The leaves you posted look pretty much like my fanleaves after a couple of months flowering.

Close to the meristem, though, they would be more troubling...

i had a friend that the power strip light was causing him problems, he put a piece of tape over the on off button that lit up a lil red light and his grows are perfect, heard of where the co2 emitter had a lil light that did the same thing...immediately i thought of light leak, but you said you did a light leak test and it was ok...again good luck finding out the culprit..DJXX

psychopro said:

Here are some pictures of leaves from 3, different plants. Maybe someone can tell me what that means.

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there are several leaf deficiency charts in the infirmary for reference..DJXX

Folks commonly use the term 'hermaphrodite' with what are actually male stress flowers on a female plant.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

Cannabis (and other plants) has a built-in 'perpetuate-the-species-at-all-costs' mechanism. When sufficiently stressed, female plants will often produce male stress flowers, and cause (female) seeds to be produced.

A Hermaphrodite can have (and often does) a complete branch of male flowers, and a branch of female flowers.

The difference is often a plant with screwed up genetics, versus a plant saying, "Oh well.. Maybe next year, I guess I'd better find a way to reproduce to give it a try later."

Less stable genetics will produce male stress pods much easier, but you can take very stable genetics/female plants, and if you stress that plant enough, cause it to produce male stress flowers.

Seeds from these will nearly always, if not always be female. But if you routinely use this method for production of seeds, using the seeds from each crop, then the seeds from the next, and so forth, over relatively short time, you'll end up with accelerated genetic drift. And eventually, most likely have weed that's unstable with minimal stress, presence of TRUE hermaphrodites, and produce notably less quality than you began with.

That said, those telling you your problem is with the soil, heat, water, nutes, etc. (some or all of the above) are giving you straight talk, unless you started with bad genetics to begin with, which is unlikely if using a good strain and source.

When I screw up, I can get my most stable plants to produce male stress flowers.

I also noticed on two leaves little black dots.

DJXX said:

there are several leaf deficiency charts in the infirmary for reference..DJXX

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Yeah i already did. Could be almost everything who knows.

Have you put a good lens (20x-50x or so) on the "black dots" to see if it's critters or critter poop?

But in my experience, you'd have to have one hell of a bug infestation to cause sufficient stress for there to be male stress flowers.

More apt to be watering/moisture/dry cycle, ph, nute excesses or deficiencies, heat, cold, etc.

moose eater said:

Have you put a good lens (20x-50x or so) on the "black dots" to see if it's critters or critter poop?

But in my experience, you'd have to have one hell of a bug infestation to cause sufficient stress for there to be male stress flowers.

More apt to be watering/moisture/dry cycle, ph, nute excesses or deficiencies, heat, cold, etc.

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I noticed a thrips infestion which i did fight with predator mites. Could that be some thrips poop?

DJXX said:

i had a friend that the power strip light was causing him problems, he put a piece of tape over the on off button that lit up a lil red light and his grows are perfect, heard of where the co2 emitter had a lil light that did the same thing...immediately i thought of light leak, but you said you did a light leak test and it was ok...again good luck finding out the culprit..DJXX

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This ^ and what everyone else is saying. If I’ve learned anything over the years, it’s never 1 thing causing the problem, it’s a series of issues that are resulting in very stressed plants (which YES absolutely will result in a hermie under right conditions).

Dark period means dark, no green light.. cover all surge protector & device indicator lights. Check the zippers & seams of tent.

Your fan leaves are showing lock out, fix your ph & feed half strength nutes everyother (or less until your getting ahold of things).

Read lots of threads & it’ll start to click

psychopro said:

Guys a different question ,is it true that a plants dark period will not get interupted when using a green led light. Because that could be the second mistake i made...

Click to expand...

It is widely said it's ok to go look at your plants during lights off under a green light, but i have never tried it. It's all about the light spectrum, but is the green LED the same spectrum as green light bulbs, i dunno.
..but it's prolly better to avoid disturbing the dark perioid in any case.

Also..
Many grow tents, especially the cheaper brands arent' 100% light proof, but if you keep your tent in a dark area then that shouldn't be a problem. Mars Hydro is prolly an OK brand too.

psychopro said:

Here are some pictures of leaves from 3, different plants. Maybe someone can tell me what that means.

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I'm not a huge expert on pH-problems cause we have pretty good and stable tap water where i live, but the leaves on a coco-grown plant i had, which had pH issues, looked similar. So i recommend you'll use some pH-down product to get your nute solution to correct pH-level.
..you should also measure the run-off solution occasionally to see how the pH is in the medium.


About feeding..
Many times, cannabis plants need less feeding than what feeding regiments from the manufacturer says. For medium feeding plants i give about 60-70% of what BioBizz recomends. Heavy feders prooly can take more but many strains i'm growing will do just fine with little less.
I also change the ratio of Grow/Bloom components with life cycle of blooming plants = More Grow-component in the early parts of flowering, less in the later part of bloom.

You use a different brand of nutes than the BioBizz i use, but is all about NPK-ratio the plant needs during the blooming cycle, so i hope this post of mine will give you some idea of how to use nutrients during bloom:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7408485&postcount=68

But to give your plants the correct amount of nutrients you have to know the strain line abit, but fortunately there are grow reports for many strains to be found over the internet.

Maybe, it's not too wise for you to start experimenting with NPK-ratios just yet, cause you're just getting started, but i'd say you can still give your plants abit less nutrients than what the manufacture recommends.

The leaves on the picture are fairly dark, thou not hugely over fed, but i still think you could give them abit less nutes.
.
.
Lighter feeding will also make the pre-harvest leeching/flushing easier, cause the plant matter isn't so saturated with nutrients. Cannabis growing in the wild is usually not as dark green as many people's indoor plants, so to me you can "over feed" your plants even if you don't see much nutrient burn/tip burn on the leaves.

Super dark green and thick leaf-matter will make your final product smoke harsher, than abit lighter colored bud.

I've come to routinely examine my plants in bloom under both low-light yellow/white bulbs (lower-setting head lamps, etc.) as well as taking green filter film (green see-through plastic) and placing it over the low-level-lighting I'm using, and neither has had a negative effect that I've seen.

Consider how bright the moon (is/can be) where photo-sensitive plants flower outdoors.. I've never heard any of those folks say, "Hey!! The moon screwed my plants up!" Never.

Ok so let's tally up the issues.

Tap water pH 7.3.
Ppm 443

So I would either get an RO system or use bottled water.the problem with an EC of 443 is you do not know what is in that water. Without a test, there is no way to know.

Get some jugs of distilled water. Add nutrients half of what the bottle recommends. Adjust pH to 6.5. now make sure that meter is calibrated.

Second, get some tape on that led green light. I'm betting that is your problem right there. Some of those lights are more yellow than green and will totally screw you over.

Third, get a magnifying glass on those leaves. Looks like possible spider mites or something. Carefully check the undersides of the leaves.

Those are the major things that stood out to me.

Use different water.
Get rid of that power strip light.
Examine plants for pests.

Keep us posted bro, we will get this ironed out. This stuff has happened to everyone. I'd bet my last joint on that "green" light tho.

Remember, during lights off, COMPLETE darkness.

Cheers!

Lester Beans said:

Ok so let's tally up the issues.

Tap water pH 7.3.
Ppm 443

So I would either get an RO system or use bottled water.the problem with an EC of 443 is you do not know what is in that water. Without a test, there is no way to know.

Get some jugs of distilled water. Add nutrients half of what the bottle recommends. Adjust pH to 6.5. now make sure that meter is calibrated.

Second, get some tape on that led green light. I'm betting that is your problem right there. Some of those lights are more yellow than green and will totally screw you over.

Third, get a magnifying glass on those leaves. Looks like possible spider mites or something. Carefully check the undersides of the leaves.

Those are the major things that stood out to me.

Use different water.
Get rid of that power strip light.
Examine plants for pests.

Keep us posted bro, we will get this ironed out. This stuff has happened to everyone. I'd bet my last joint on that "green" light tho.

Remember, during lights off, COMPLETE darkness.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Changing water is at the moment not possible but i will use ph down to get the water on the right ph range.

I checked the leaves and i think these are just the poop of my thrips infestation that i have(maybe had).

The thing with the light is it's completly at the top of the box and between the plants and the light are all of my led lights. So.let's see if it's causing the problem i will tape it for the next run.

If using demineralized/de-ionized/distilled/RO H2O, first read up on re-adjusting the mineral content to the medium or the H2O; calcium, zinc, etc.

Thrips, if in sufficient population, can draw life out of a plant. But you'd have seen more than a couple of them flying about at that point.

When I've run higher ph, while there has been -some- amount of lock-out, the higher ph has often been accompanied by 'dark jungle green.' Admittedly that was higher than 7.3. And to be accurate/fair in that statement, the plants had plenty of nutrients available, albeit not full spectrum due to the ph.

See comment above re. moonlight in outdoor flowering of photo-sensitive plants; moon is definitely 'yellow' (white) light. i.e., the intensity of the light matters a fair bit. The light(s) I use to check plants or address chores not achieved when the lights were on, don't cause sufficient disruption to darkness to interfere with the bloom cycle. Granted, my low-level lights, filtered or not, aren't perpetual, but rather hit and run.

Look to the content of your water, your mix, nutes, etc. And if present in larger numbers, pests.

DJXX said:

5.8 to 6.2 ph for me...nute shock or stress of some kind...get a ph pen and feed them half strength nutes and as they get bigger strengthn the food....sounds like you have everything else pretty sweet....get calibration liquid, calibrate your PH pen and bet these go away..DJXX

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So this time i checked everything.
PH'ed the water to 6.0-6.2 and only feeded 60% of my solution. Every 3-4days ph'ed water and every 3-4 days ph'ed solution.
And this shit hermied again
I found fat almost developed seed cluster on the 2 plants standing in the middle directly under my led light only on the lower branches in week 4.

Which maybe comes from light leaks from the passiv intake, i don't know. On the opposite side where the tent stands is a window where is some light coming in because the exhaust fan takes the air out there.
I am know buying charcoal filters to put on them so it blocks the light and will sit in the tent after this grow to check for other possible leaks.
This time the plants looked perfectly healthy with no colouring of the leaves.

Are you 100 percent certain you know what a hermie looks like ? Post a picture of your hermie plants close up. I think you might be confused a little.

Lester Beans said:

Ok so let's tally up the issues.

Tap water pH 7.3.
Ppm 443
..



Use different water. Done!
Get rid of that power strip light. Done!
Examine plants for pests. Done!

Keep us posted bro, we will get this ironed out. This stuff has happened to everyone. I'd bet my last joint on that "green" light tho.

Remember, during lights off, COMPLETE darkness.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Changed all points. But it didn't seem to be one of those problems.
Because the plants looked perfectly fine this time, but still hermied on the lower branches.


The only thing which still comes in my mind is that light must come from outside in to the tent.
The tent stands on the opposite site of the window which the exhaust air leads out. There is some light coming in and shining on the front of the tent where it maybe leads due to holes inside.


But it's so strange that almost only the lower branches hermied.
I will also cover the passive intake holes.


Is it maybe possible that the lower branches hermie because of the lack of light?
But i have a 1200W Led Grow light shining on them so that is rather not the problem.
I also leave the grow light on Veg Mode for the first 1-2 weeks of flower is that maybe an issue, because not enought red light are on. So frustrating at this point.

When I see male stress flowers (not hermaphrodites, but male stress flowers!!), 9 x's out of 10, it's soil or medium content; nutes, nutes, or .... nutes. And imbalance, too much of 'x' instead of 'y,' etc., is key. At minor levels, it'll cause changes in production and general health. At more severe imbalances it'll show as all sorts of things, to include male stress flowers (unless dealing with unstable genetics, for which it occurs much easier).

There've even been some limited times when I turned a fuck-up into a test of the genetics I was running. If they remained without male stress pods, despite a relatively stout or out-of-whack medium, then they were solid girls.

Look to see if you're inadvertently doubling up on something that's harmful in higher levels. Check ratios of amendments.

If all of that's good, then look for new moms.

That'd be my course of action, but I'm not you.

Good luck.

No bullshit. And you can cause stress flowers in even relatively stable plants with nute imbalance. Guaranteed.