Coco vs Seedlings

Hi folks,
Started with soil over hydro to coco back to hydro. Nowadays im only using coco for mothers. Since i don't like to run seedplants i mostly veg them until showing sex take clones and flower these. Anytime i tried to veg in coco from seed i get bad results. Seems like the babies don't like it. looking overfed /nuteburnt, shrinkly leaves bad growth, even if i flush the coco to death before use, giving very low nute dosage it simply doen't work. So i got back to put them into soil until week 3-4 and then to coco or straight into hydro. Anyone got suggestions how to work with coco from seed?
I tried 3 different manufactuerers, all with the same bad results. Am i doing something wrong?

Hi,
You need to let the coco to be mostly dry before watering them, drain every watering and add very low nutes to your solution. I add 0.5ml/L of AB from canna

coco is tough on seedlings because of the water retention. i've been growing in coco for years & love it , but i start seedlings in fox farm light warrior . alot more forgiving & you don't need to feed anything but water till they're ready for transplanting . the LW transitions over to pots of coco with no problems either .

I start seedlings using paper towel method then sprouted seeds go into rapid rooter plugs in a standard tray . I use a little seaweed extract in the water and get everything under a dome. I wait until they are rooting and and taking low dose nutrients before i stick plug in Coco and finish plant.

Good info dansbuds, thanks, Ill never use coco again for seeds, because I have allways problems with stalled growth because of too much water I guess...
And you ph your water dansbuds to 6.5 for that time in LW, and when you transplant you go with ph for coco directly??

i just use tap water untill i transplant , then i go with a feed of PH of 5.9 when i transplant it into coco . the transition of LW to coco has never caused a problem so far with the different Ph's . probably cuz its only a 9oz cup of LW going into a 5" square pot . alot more coco than LW in it .

Thanx for the input guys. My Tap ec is 0.2 what i consider is very good. As said DWC or E/F works flawlessly. it's only the coco that buggers me. i use to buy the pressed blocks. i water it until all wet then squish it out put it in another tub -> repeat. I fed seedlings with tap water for 3-5 days depending on size, then i feed them 0.8ec//ph corrected to 5.5 rising to 5.7-5.8 after 1 day.Same as is do with rockwool. Rockwool no probs at all, coco plants dont look happy...
I want to get away from the rockwool since i think it's not very eco friendly....

latscholax said:

Hi folks,
Started with soil over hydro to coco back to hydro. Nowadays im only using coco for mothers. Since i don't like to run seedplants i mostly veg them until showing sex take clones and flower these. Anytime i tried to veg in coco from seed i get bad results. Seems like the babies don't like it. looking overfed /nuteburnt, shrinkly leaves bad growth, even if i flush the coco to death before use, giving very low nute dosage it simply doen't work. So i got back to put them into soil until week 3-4 and then to coco or straight into hydro. Anyone got suggestions how to work with coco from seed? I tried 3 different manufactuerers, all with the same bad results. Am i doing something wrong?

Click to expand...

Coco is very easy to use, and I use it as a superior medium for both seeds and clones.

However, there are a few things to get right first.

1) Use a quality brand coco

There is no need to save money on coco - buy the high quality brands that you can basically use right out of the bag - Canna, Plagron.

2) Prepare your medium

Coco still benefits from wetting it first, and letting water hydrate it. PH the water to around 6.0 pH first - very important, because the water soaks into the dry coco coir, and it (with it's pH) will be released over a couple of days, resulting in too high a pH if you don't. Then pour the water onto the coco until very moist/wet, and let it sit for a couple of days. Then flush it with ph-ed water again until there is no or very little discoloration of the runoff.

If you use perlite, use large size perlite, put it in a tub and put a sprayer on it, let stand for at least 10 minutes, and scoop whatever floats and use that as your medium. Removing the wallpaper glue like substance will go a long way in keeping roots from getting blocked and your medium turning to cement over time.

You can mix coco coir with perlite without ill effect, however why do so? It only means that you have to water more often. I do use perlite at the bottom of the pot high enough to keep the drainage holes clear of coco coir.

3) Nutrients

Most cannabis nutrients have too little p/k for good root and branch growth. I take 0.4 EC of canna coco a+b, and add 0.4 EC of Atami B'Cuzz Flower Hardener (npk 0-20-30) or Plagron's Green Sensation (npk 0-9-10). The P massively increases root growth even without a root stimulator, and the K prevents purple stems and increases stem and branch width, which increases water and nutrient supply to branches. When the roots start sticking out, maintain the EC but leave out the P/K addition until early flowering. This relatively increases N and leads to fast foliage growth.

ADDED - For seeds, start out with a total EC of 0.4 (0.2 EC Canna Coco A+B, and 0.2 EC high PK nutrient). This cannot burn seeds, and stimulates root growth, which is most important for the young seedling.

4) Watering frequency

Don't water/feed too often. Stability in the medium comes from allowing the plant to get used to it's environment. Instead of watering every day, try watering every other day. Let the coco coir slightly discolor before watering. It doesn't hurt the roots at all.

5) Water

I use R/O filtered water. The water I use is very hard city water, and to prevent buildup of unpredictable metals or nutrients, I filter it. It is remineralized by letting some r/o water stand with maerl/magnesium lime added for at least a day, and I use 1/5th and 4/5th ordinary r/o water. (More if there are any signs of magnesium deficiency, less if it's too much.)

I use Plagron coco, and in store, guy said that I dont need to prepare this coco because its so clean out of the bag (I dont use coco slabs) and for test, I poured water ower 200ml cup filled with coco, and waste water had 0.0ec on blab thruncheon,and no yellowish colour either... Do I need to prepare this coco anyway (as you suggested) or not TanzanianMagic??

Agropop said:

I use Plagron coco, and in store, guy said that I dont need to prepare this coco because its so clean out of the bag (I dont use coco slabs) and for test, I poured water ower 200ml cup filled with coco, and waste water had 0.0ec on blab thruncheon,and no yellowish colour either... Do I need to prepare this coco anyway (as you suggested) or not TanzanianMagic??

Click to expand...

You should always give coco time to get completely hydrated, even the bagged variety. It doesn't expand a lot, however it does absorb water. If it stands in water for a day or two that would be fine.

Let me know how it goes.

TanzanianMagic said:

Coco is very easy to use, and I use it as a superior medium for both seeds and clones.

However, there are a few things to get right first.

1) Use a quality brand coco

There is no need to save money on coco - buy the high quality brands that you can basically use right out of the bag - Canna, Plagron.

2) Prepare your medium

Coco still benefits from wetting it first, and letting water hydrate it. PH the water to around 6.0 pH first - very important, because the water soaks into the dry coco coir, and it (with it's pH) will be released over a couple of days, resulting in too high a pH if you don't. Then pour the water onto the coco until very moist/wet, and let it sit for a couple of days. Then flush it with ph-ed water again until there is no or very little discoloration of the runoff.

If you use perlite, use large size perlite, put it in a tub and put a sprayer on it, let stand for at least 10 minutes, and scoop whatever floats and use that as your medium. Removing the wallpaper glue like substance will go a long way in keeping roots from getting blocked and your medium turning to cement over time.

You can mix coco coir with perlite without ill effect, however why do so? It only means that you have to water more often. I do use perlite at the bottom of the pot high enough to keep the drainage holes clear of coco coir.

3) Nutrients

Most cannabis nutrients have too little p/k for good root and branch growth. I take 0.4 EC of canna coco a+b, and add 0.4 EC of Atami B'Cuzz Flower Hardener (npk 0-20-30) or Plagron's Green Sensation (npk 0-9-10). The P massively increases root growth even without a root stimulator, and the K prevents purple stems and increases stem and branch width, which increases water and nutrient supply to branches. When the roots start sticking out, maintain the EC but leave out the P/K addition until early flowering. This relatively increases N and leads to fast foliage growth.

4) Watering frequency

Don't water/feed too often. Stability in the medium comes from allowing the plant to get used to it's environment. Instead of watering every day, try watering every other day. Let the coco coir slightly discolor before watering. It doesn't hurt the roots at all.

5) Water

I use R/O filtered water. The water I use is very hard city water, and to prevent buildup of unpredictable metals or nutrients, I filter it. It is remineralized by letting some r/o water stand with maerl/magnesium lime added for at least a day, and I use 1/5th and 4/5th ordinary r/o water. (More if there are any signs of magnesium deficiency, less if it's too much.)

Click to expand...

this is the first time i'm hearing that a PK booster should used with your base nutes to build roots . if this is really true it would explain a few problems i have after transplanting .
half base & half PK to bring the EC to .8 ...... i may have to try this .

cannastart 0 - 1 - 2 is basically that , but a weaker concentration , right ?

TanzanianMagic said:

Coco is very easy to use, and I use it as a superior medium for both seeds and clones.

However, there are a few things to get right first.

1) Use a quality brand coco

There is no need to save money on coco - buy the high quality brands that you can basically use right out of the bag - Canna, Plagron.

2) Prepare your medium

Coco still benefits from wetting it first, and letting water hydrate it. PH the water to around 6.0 pH first - very important, because the water soaks into the dry coco coir, and it (with it's pH) will be released over a couple of days, resulting in too high a pH if you don't. Then pour the water onto the coco until very moist/wet, and let it sit for a couple of days. Then flush it with ph-ed water again until there is no or very little discoloration of the runoff.

If you use perlite, use large size perlite, put it in a tub and put a sprayer on it, let stand for at least 10 minutes, and scoop whatever floats and use that as your medium. Removing the wallpaper glue like substance will go a long way in keeping roots from getting blocked and your medium turning to cement over time.

You can mix coco coir with perlite without ill effect, however why do so? It only means that you have to water more often. I do use perlite at the bottom of the pot high enough to keep the drainage holes clear of coco coir.

3) Nutrients

Most cannabis nutrients have too little p/k for good root and branch growth. I take 0.4 EC of canna coco a+b, and add 0.4 EC of Atami B'Cuzz Flower Hardener (npk 0-20-30) or Plagron's Green Sensation (npk 0-9-10). The P massively increases root growth even without a root stimulator, and the K prevents purple stems and increases stem and branch width, which increases water and nutrient supply to branches. When the roots start sticking out, maintain the EC but leave out the P/K addition until early flowering. This relatively increases N and leads to fast foliage growth.

4) Watering frequency

Don't water/feed too often. Stability in the medium comes from allowing the plant to get used to it's environment. Instead of watering every day, try watering every other day. Let the coco coir slightly discolor before watering. It doesn't hurt the roots at all.

5) Water

I use R/O filtered water. The water I use is very hard city water, and to prevent buildup of unpredictable metals or nutrients, I filter it. It is remineralized by letting some r/o water stand with maerl/magnesium lime added for at least a day, and I use 1/5th and 4/5th ordinary r/o water. (More if there are any signs of magnesium deficiency, less if it's too much.)

Click to expand...

What nutrients do you use or recommend brother? Thanks!

Possibly it's a quality issue from the substrates i used. I didn't try canna or any other of the loose substrate, since i liked the compact blocks for ease of transport. As said with clones i get good results, it's only with the seeds i have probs. Gonna try canna or biobizz..I also put a "Drainlayer" to the bottm of the pots. I use Claypebbles instead of Perlite, works also.
YOu suggest ph 6? since im a hydro guy i like to run it a little lower. Gonna get some selfmade beans for experiments on this, i don't want to waste some good stuff

I use Advanced Nutrients 3 comp.(dunno if thats available outside Eu)
I also go like 0-2-1 N // P/K // Micro , adding N after 1-2 weeks depending on growth. Since my Tapwater is 0.2 (RO-Water not availiable) adding 0.8 would put me around 1.0ec. Risky for seedlings, i suppose it would kill em? Do you use enzymes in that early stage?

latscholax said:

Hi folks,
Started with soil over hydro to coco back to hydro. Nowadays im only using coco for mothers. Since i don't like to run seedplants i mostly veg them until showing sex take clones and flower these. Anytime i tried to veg in coco from seed i get bad results. Seems like the babies don't like it. looking overfed /nuteburnt, shrinkly leaves bad growth, even if i flush the coco to death before use, giving very low nute dosage it simply doen't work. So i got back to put them into soil until week 3-4 and then to coco or straight into hydro. Anyone got suggestions how to work with coco from seed?
I tried 3 different manufactuerers, all with the same bad results. Am i doing something wrong?

Click to expand...

I quit starting seeds in coco it sux regardless of coco even cannas...

I use rapid rooters now 100% success.

If you start seeds in coco dot let them go to wet.

Never start og seeds in coco they seem to hate it mote than any other

You aren't doing anythi G wrong other than coco to pop seeds stop that and all is good. Say no to rock wool though and grab some rapid rooters.

dansbuds said:

this is the first time i'm hearing that a PK booster should used with your base nutes to build roots . if this is really true it would explain a few problems i have after transplanting .
half base & half PK to bring the EC to .8 ...... i may have to try this .

cannastart 0 - 1 - 2 is basically that , but a weaker concentration , right ?

Click to expand...

I would be super cautious about giving vegging plants of any size pk 13 14 or anything alike. Think noodles....

latscholax said:

Possibly it's a quality issue from the substrates i used. I didn't try canna or any other of the loose substrate, since i liked the compact blocks for ease of transport. As said with clones i get good results, it's only with the seeds i have probs. Gonna try canna or biobizz..I also put a "Drainlayer" to the bottm of the pots. I use Claypebbles instead of Perlite, works also.
YOu suggest ph 6? since im a hydro guy i like to run it a little lower. Gonna get some selfmade beans for experiments on this, i don't want to waste some good stuff

I use Advanced Nutrients 3 comp.(dunno if thats available outside Eu)
I also go like 0-2-1 N // P/K // Micro , adding N after 1-2 weeks depending on growth. Since my Tapwater is 0.2 (RO-Water not availiable) adding 0.8 would put me around 1.0ec. Risky for seedlings, i suppose it would kill em? Do you use enzymes in that early stage?

Click to expand...

Use plugs or dirt... or a cup of water pop them in once they sprout roots

OverDose said:

I would be super cautious about giving vegging plants of any size pk 13 14 or anything alike. Think noodles....

Click to expand...

yeah , thats kinda why i mentioned the cannastart . if anything , i'll try that first with no base . i've used it on seedlings & it did very well .
but my main thing is i'm getting alot of red woody stems in veg ..... i know its K related , but just unsure what to do about it . been doing some reading & getting conflicting advice ...... of course .

i also use a bit higher p/k early on. Just be careful not to go too high on EC..

dansbuds said:

yeah , thats kinda why i mentioned the cannastart . if anything , i'll try that first with no base . i've used it on seedlings & it did very well .
but my main thing is i'm getting alot of red woody stems in veg ..... i know its K related , but just unsure what to do about it . been doing some reading & getting conflicting advice ...... of course .

Click to expand...

I wouldn't use pk 13 14 for that rather a mono nutrient product, or I would slightly increase one of my parts of my canna AB set. I've bee told you no longer use canna but that powder crap? Half my buddies say it's legit the others say it's the worst shit they have on hand I wouldn't use it because I like the flex of a 2 part.

Well whatever you do follow all the advice at once. So much overqualified advice none of it can be wrong right Dan?

I myself would choose another additive other than pk 13 14 or the like. What you choose is up to you my only advice is don't use pk 13 14 in veg the results will be hilarious if you do though and I want a pic.

FYI I have seen pk 13 14 given in veg. It's a real