The Reality of Climate Change

I went with my brother this morning to feed his cattle. The rains have gone again this year and once again, to stay in business, we're having to feed our animals as the grass has died.

I then went to the local store where all of the area farmers meet in the morning to have our bacon/egg biscuit. There were 9 other farmers there besides us. I spoke to them about the discussion here about global warming and that there were a lot of people that didnt believe climate change was real. They everyone shook their heads in disbelief. One spoke up and said" thats exactly why we're having so much trouble getting politicians to start doing something about it". One of the farmers works for the county ag agency and had just come back from a national meeting of ag extention agents. He said that there wasnt a farmer in the entire US that wouldn't quickly aggree that climate change is here and is having a much bigger impact than the scientist have said or that politicians are willing to admit. From the most conservative rancher in Wyoming, to the organic farmer in Georgia, they everyone agree.

As farmers, ranchers, conservationist and others whose livelihoods depend upon the climate and are in daily, intimate contact with the climate and the enviroment are currently in a fight with climate change for our very existence in hopes of saving the lives that we have built upon the land and our hope to pass that life on to our children. Our crops wont grow because of drought or flood, the heat is harming our livestock and the land won't support their feeding requirements any longer.

The discussion at the country store ended with this assessment of the climate change issue: Only those with no real contact with the enviroment have the luxury of the academic arguement that climate change is not real. Their belief is philisophical. Their only contact with the enviroment is to walk from the house to the car, mowing the lawn or by having a cookout on the deck on sunday . They ask they're wife to turn down the A/C, put their feet up, turn the game on and say" I dont believe in this climate change crap".

Unfortunately, some of us don't have the luxury of philosophical debates and are emursed in the reality of climate change. In the morning when I go to buy gas for the irrigation pumps and pump the last remaining pools of water in the creek onto my crop, I'll think about those with the the life circumstance that allows them a different view of climate change.

the guys workin the land, lookin after animals or pursuin em; closer to the earth. they learn first, first hand, like the canary in the coal mine.

Silverback, do you know PETA considers you and your brother raising cattle a bigger enviromental concern than my gas guzzling Bronco and factories spewing all sorts of poisons into the air and water? They even got onto Gore for it.
I'm sorry you and your brother are having difficulties.

I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant to think that we can state anything at all about global climate simply by witnessing the environment around us. Completely ignorant.

See, hay is abundant in my neck of the woods. I'm pretty certain the man across from me has had at least 3-4 good cuts of alfalfa and timothy. He has got about a 200 x 200 pyramid built and tarped off now. He is ready for next year...just in case there is a drought like we had last year. There was another drought...oh let's see...maybe 5-6 years ago, that wasn't near as severe as last years.

Our earth has gone through many many changes, and will continue to do so. You and I can for sure be conscience of our actions and keep our pollution to a minimum, and we should live our lives to suit our own styles. But when we start dictating to others what is, and what should be, including mandating we change our ways of life, we step over the line. Especially when all we have is junk science and Clem and his buddies witnessing the very same changes our earth has been going through for ages.
So what if the bacon buddies have had it rough for a year or two, or even ten...what they are seeing has no relevance to the global warming debate. These guys, even old goober, aren't near old enough to have witnessed enough of our weather to even be a blip on the scope.

No, the problem is these guys are hearing what the leftist of our societies are throwing down their throats during the 15-20 minutes exposure to the outside world they get.
And that is really all the exposure the common man has to these issues and how the world is seeing them. And it is the evening news that brings this small bit of exposure to him. News that seems to...no wait...have been proven to back up the leftist agenda. As a result of the mass media backing of the leftist agenda, they flood their telecasts with propaganda filled expose's, masked as news reports.

No, Clem and Goober mean well, and I have no doubts of that. But they are farmers plain and simple. They are seeing a dry spell, at the very same time they are being manipulated and lulled by their emotions by those who have other agendas, namely leftist politicians that would have us change our whole way of life just to appease the over-zealous reactionaries, that have nothing more than speculative junk science reports and peoples simple emotions and fears to back them up.

Tell ya what...next time Clem and Goober are eating breakfast and discussing the worlds demise by global warming, maybe they should pick up a copy of the Farmers Almanac and see if they are correct or not. Check it out and see if this is the hottest and driest period that the area they farm has seen.
And the Farmers Almanac itself only has a very, very limited amount of time to use for comparisons. So in the grand scope of things, your pals are simply being ignorant, rather than doing what they should be doing, which is preparing for such weather events. It may rain to beat all hell next year...are they gonna blame that too on global climate change? You bet your ass they will. Why? Well...I've stated why.

On a positive note, I hope y'all can find some hay, (which I'm sure you can since there is not a drought per se happening and others in your state will have lots of hay to spare) and I hope it comes some good gullywarshers for you.

The farmers back in 1600 were close to the land as well. The had the problem in reverse. The earth was beginning(in Europe) to go into a mini ice age that lasted until 1850. Many crops were lost as seasons didn't last long enough to harvest the food. Millions starved. The earth warms and the earth cools. Been doing that for hundreds of millions of years. More CO2....less CO2. Been doing that for millions of years too. Problem now is that we have 100x the people. Good farmland has been turned into suburbs. Billions of gallons of water are used to provide lush lawns, not food. I would rather smoke grass, not eat it. Someday,if we aren't careful, we may need to learn to chew our cud like cows, because weeds and grass may be all we have.

Actually Hoosier, your'e wrong. The liberals, the politicians, the scientist claim that in years to come, there will be determental effects on us from climate change. They are as wrong as you are. Climate change is here now. I have farmed for 40 years and some of the fellows I talked with have farmed for 60 yrs. They know and I know that something has changed. It may not have changed yet where you live, but my life experience tells me it has. I do agree with you that the scientist are wrong.

Pops, what youve said is correct with one exception. Never in the history of the world has Co2 been as high as it is now. Even the EPA has stated we are in uncharted territory. We are about to see the first real effects of global warming in india. The glacier in the himalayas that creates the Ganges river is melting rapidly and will be gone within a few years. 400 million people will be left without water.

silverback said:

I do agree with you that the scientist are wrong.

Pops, what youve said is correct with one exception. Never in the history of the world has Co2 been as high as it is now. Even the EPA has stated we are in uncharted territory. We are about to see the first real effects of global warming in india. The glacier in the himalayas that creates the Ganges river is melting rapidly and will be gone within a few years. 400 million people will be left without water.

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I hope you arent getting all your facts from 60 year old farmers.

Uncharted territory in world history?

When earths historical co2 levels have been as high as 7,000ppms [ yes thats seven thousand ] compared to todays 400ppms Im not sure what world you are talking about.



http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/historical_CO2.htm

That charts as useless as tits on a boar hog. You've covered millions of years but you failed to show us the rate of increase in co2 since 1950. Without that info, the chart is useless. 500, 600 year old oaks and poplars are dying on the ridge. The pond on my grandfathers farm was put in by our ancestors in 1774. It has never been dry since, until now. Like i said, those with no connection to the enviroment and no stake in immediate enviromental condition are free to create academic arguements. Just like the polar bear, im living it.

silverback said:

That charts as useless as tits on a boar hog. You've covered millions of years but you failed to show us the rate of increase in co2 since 1950. Without that info, the chart is useless. 500, 600 year old oaks and poplars are dying on the ridge. The pond on my grandfathers farm was put in by our ancestors in 1774. It has never been dry since, until now. Like i said, those with no connection to the enviroment and no stake in immediate enviromental condition are free to create academic arguements. Just like the polar bear, im living it.

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You failed to notice the corelation??

CO2 does not cause oaks and poplars to die, but disease and drought do. People like to blame CO2 for everything. As Verites chart shows, CO2 is at a relatively low level compared to the rest of the earths history. We had severe drought 80 years ago that had nothing to do with CO2. When dinos roamed the earth, there was considerably more CO2 in the air. It didn't kill them, an asteroid hitting earth did.

Yes climate change is real,I cant even go outside without my balls sweatin

Solar flares is something serious that could happen too and could alter our dna.

Me too, but then I live in the fucking desert!

hoosierdaddy said:

No, the problem is these guys are hearing what the leftist of our societies are throwing down their throats during the 15-20 minutes exposure to the outside world they get.
And that is really all the exposure the common man has to these issues and how the world is seeing them. And it is the evening news that brings this small bit of exposure to him. News that seems to...no wait...have been proven to back up the leftist agenda. As a result of the mass media backing of the leftist agenda, they flood their telecasts with propaganda filled expose's, masked as news reports.

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There is real science to back up global warming yet you break this down to a left/right political argument? In fact there is much more scientific support for human based climate change being a reality, than not.

hard rain,
Show me the fuckin evidence pal. I'm sick and tired of all y'all saying there is hard evidence, yet you wouldn't know if there was or wasn't.
I have done enough hard research to know that there is NOT hard evidence. Not even close. You are simply another of those that are full of shit and think it's fashionable to throw around your unfounded claims. You are letting others tell you what is what without really looking for yourself. Others who are using you like a puppet. They need first your vote, and then your money. If you think otherwise, you are foolishly mistaken.

Wait...show me the fuckin evidence and you can shut me right up. Otherwise stop making yourself look stupid by making assertions that you have no fucking idea about.
Real science my fuckin ass. Only simpletons believe that to be the case. Sad thing is there seems to be a lot of simpleton people around these days.
Confused, stupid, and dependent, just like the leftist politicians need you.
Because without confused, stupid, and dependent people, the left would have no constituencies.

I'm sorry silverback,
but again I say that what you and your farming pals have seen in your lifetimes has absolutely NOTHING to do with global warming and it doesn't prove one thing about the global climate. To continue to say so is just plain ignorant.
You don't seem that simple to me.

BTW...just what am I wrong about? Please be specific.

hoosierdaddy said:

hard rain,
Show me the fuckin evidence pal. I'm sick and tired of all y'all saying there is hard evidence, yet you wouldn't know if there was or wasn't.
I have done enough hard research to know that there is NOT hard evidence. Not even close. You are simply another of those that are full of shit and think it's fashionable to throw around your unfounded claims. You are letting others tell you what is what without really looking for yourself. Others who are using you like a puppet. They need first your vote, and then your money. If you think otherwise, you are foolishly mistaken.

Wait...show me the fuckin evidence and you can shut me right up. Otherwise stop making yourself look stupid by making assertions that you have no fucking idea about.
Real science my fuckin ass. Only simpletons believe that to be the case. Sad thing is there seems to be a lot of simpleton people around these days.
Confused, stupid, and dependent, just like the leftist politicians need you.
Because without confused, stupid, and dependent people, the left would have no constituencies.

I'm sorry silverback,
but again I say that what you and your farming pals have seen in your lifetimes has absolutely NOTHING to do with global warming and it doesn't prove one thing about the global climate. To continue to say so is just plain ignorant.
You don't seem that simple to me.

BTW...just what am I wrong about? Please be specific.

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hoosierdaddy, what "hard research" have you done? There is loads of evidence from all over the globe, easily found (google global warming evidence). I somehow doubt any of that would convince you as your mind is made up. Its all a left conspiracy (according to you) who are after "first your vote, and then your money". Thats the funniest shit I've read in a long time. Get your head out of your arse and realise that some people actually care about the environment and thats all. No hidden agenda; they just don't want to live in a shitty polluted world. Nor do they want to suffer the economic consequences. If anyone has a vested interest in denying climate change its the big polluters; big business.

You don't know me; you have no idea what I may or may not have read on this subject so I have no idea why you think I am "full of shit". What is so hard to understand about an increasingly industrialised Earths population causing increased warming. Do you deny that CO2 is increasing and that things are warming up? Do you think that the Chinese and Indian economies are not accelerating this?

I can recommend a book on the subject called 'We are the weather makers: the story of global warming" by Tim Flannery.

http://www.climatechangeeducation.org/science/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/
http://www.science.org.au/nova/envir.htm
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/index.html

Pops said:

The farmers back in 1600 were close to the land as well. The had the problem in reverse. The earth was beginning(in Europe) to go into a mini ice age that lasted until 1850. Many crops were lost as seasons didn't last long enough to harvest the food. Millions starved. The earth warms and the earth cools. Been doing that for hundreds of millions of years. More CO2....less CO2. Been doing that for millions of years too. Problem now is that we have 100x the people. Good farmland has been turned into suburbs. Billions of gallons of water are used to provide lush lawns, not food. I would rather smoke grass, not eat it. Someday,if we aren't careful, we may need to learn to chew our cud like cows, because weeds and grass may be all we have.

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Just wanted to add: The reason the "little ice age" ended was because of the Industrial Revolution, when burning coal in factories/machines became huge.

who told you that?

TheGoodStuff said:

Just wanted to add: The reason the "little ice age" ended was because of the Industrial Revolution, when burning coal in factories/machines became huge.

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No, it was the discovery of America. People started to breed and breathe... releasing more and more co2!

hard rain said:

hoosierdaddy, what "hard research" have you done? There is loads of evidence from all over the globe, easily found (google global warming evidence). I somehow doubt any of that would convince you as your mind is made up. Its all a left conspiracy (according to you) who are after "first your vote, and then your money". Thats the funniest shit I've read in a long time. Get your head out of your arse and realise that some people actually care about the environment and thats all. No hidden agenda; they just don't want to live in a shitty polluted world. Nor do they want to suffer the economic consequences. If anyone has a vested interest in denying climate change its the big polluters; big business.

You don't know me; you have no idea what I may or may not have read on this subject so I have no idea why you think I am "full of shit". What is so hard to understand about an increasingly industrialised Earths population causing increased warming. Do you deny that CO2 is increasing and that things are warming up? Do you think that the Chinese and Indian economies are not accelerating this?

I can recommend a book on the subject called 'We are the weather makers: the story of global warming" by Tim Flannery.

http://www.climatechangeeducation.org/science/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/
http://www.science.org.au/nova/envir.htm
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/index.html

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See this is exactly what I am talking about. No, you are right I don;t know you from Adam, and have no idea of your worth as an intellectual. But I can tell you for sure that the only real research on man made global warming that you have done consists of reading agenda driven activists drivel. That is clear from both your words, and the references you have provided.
ALL of those sites are agenda driven, and their agenda has a bottom line of MONEY. Do not kid yourself.

And when you are in a discussion about a topic, try to provide references that are specific. What you provided was an array of home pages from activists sites. You gave no specific topic links. Am I supposed to wade through all the bullshit that these sites have to offer and hope I come across the proof on this issue?

And just as worthless as the links you provided is the recommendation of Tim Flannery's book. Pal, you don;t even know the name of the fuckin book, yet you put it in quotation marks as if it is a quoted reference.
See, this is exactly what I am talking about...you have no stinkin idea of what you are talking about, and even your references are all fucked up.
The book, BTW...is "The Weather Makers: The History and Future Impact of Climate Change" Tim Flannery, 2005

Tim Flannery is a mammalogist. His is as clueless as you and your "sky is falling" reactionary pals are. He does not have the credentials to make global climate studies. He only has activist opinion.
His writings are far from proof of anything at all.
Poor try there, pal. Is that all it takes to convince you of things? Apparently so. I choose to not be some stupid prick with my head up my ass that subscribes to any Tom, Dick, or Harry's activist rants.

One key passage in your text is very telling, and is behind many of you less-than-learned sheeps motives...

Get your head out of your arse and realise that some people actually care about the environment and thats all.

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Well, I care about my environment every bit as much as you do. Perhaps even more. Just because I am not some ignorant dupe that accepts whatever some asshole tells me, does not mean I do not care about my environment. I care about it greatly, and how dare you think I do not.

You global warmers seem to think that simply because a man does not blindly accept what they have, that they must be haters that only want to ruin our world.

Wise up.

Look at it this way:

Since industrialisation, man has altered the natural world continously, intensively, for hundreds of years. The amount of synthetic materials, chemicals, and pollution that people pump out daily into the atmosphere is astounding. It seems absolutely impossible to me that this could be done with NO detrimental effect, which is what some people apparently think.

Stop throwing graphs and data that none of you understand at each other, and think about it in simple terms. I dont see how anyone could think that what people do to the earth is not damaging it...