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Auto flower in the north

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
Been growing since 1999. always photoperiod. Recently I was speaking with a local greenhouse grower, he had just finished a season using autoflower plants.
The report and photos were of six foot plants yielding a half pound or better.
I had not known this was possible, but have duplicated many of the lighting conditions of his greenhouse indoors. The first thumbnail is the growing area, spectrum and intensity were set up with a photoperiod plant in the middle. total is 878 watts, a bit lower than the 1000 the photoperiods get while budding, but with the extra six hours of light per day the higher intensity would end up being unused by the end of the period.
Lemon Skunk and Hindu Kush, I do not know what strains are large so I got strains with cool names.
The largest will go into the new room and the other will stay in the regular veg area, at least this is an easy planting, 18/6 without any changeups.

I have a camera and am not afraid to use it, more in the months ahead.
 

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aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
You'll like the strains you chose. Just don't compare height yield to that of photoperiod sisters.

Enjoy your grow experience.
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
Here I am, like a kid with a new toy.
Since an auto flower is getting 18 hours of light per day the intensity has to be cut down. Plants have a 24 hour maximum as well a one hour maximum.
The intensity in the 12 hour cycle stuffed all the photons into the plant it could take for the day. With 18 hours this can be less per hour and still give the plant all it can take for a day, less stress is a bonus the plant gets for free.

With this in mind the 400 watt Black Dog LED was swapped for a 400 watt CMH in a 30" polished reflector.
Side lights are six 50 watt LED bars all aimed at the center of the plant from 30". Vertical fluorescent bulbs are "NatureSun" with a 98% Color Rendering Index and 2% UVB.

The Auto Lemon Skunk was first to germinate so gets the new room. If the Auto Hindu Kush sprouts it will share the veg room.

I remember trying a Ruderalis straight in from the Soviet Union back in the 1990's. Small plant, conical buds, and not particularly strong. The breeders at the time said it would be a while isolating the genes they were after and to be patient.

My fingers are crossed.
 

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  • CMH overhead,LED bars angled towards the plant on the sides, and T8's with 2% UVB also on the si.jpg
    CMH overhead,LED bars angled towards the plant on the sides, and T8's with 2% UVB also on the si.jpg
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  • The 400 watt overhead is off, the T8's with 98% CRI and 2% UVB are on as are the viewing lights .jpg
    The 400 watt overhead is off, the T8's with 98% CRI and 2% UVB are on as are the viewing lights .jpg
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Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
Since I started I may as well keep up.
Day seventeen on the Auto Lemon Skunk. Only a couple days before transplanting into it's future home.
The light intensity just got upped to 650 umol of PAR from 450, after the transplant the light will go up to 800 umol and remain there for the duration.
With 18 hours of light any intensity higher remains unused as the plant will quit taking in energy when the 24 hour limit is reached. Photo period plants get 950 umol for their 13.5 hours.

First time with a modern hybrid auto, if this works out it will become a part of the garden.
 

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aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Phaeton-
Transplant to bigger container for the best possible outcome! 2 gallon (9 liter) works well. Larger autos need larger container.
 

lordperezident

New member
Since I started I may as well keep up.
Day seventeen on the Auto Lemon Skunk. Only a couple days before transplanting into it's future home.
The light intensity just got upped to 650 umol of PAR from 450, after the transplant the light will go up to 800 umol and remain there for the duration.
With 18 hours of light any intensity higher remains unused as the plant will quit taking in energy when the 24 hour limit is reached. Photo period plants get 950 umol for their 13.5 hours.

First time with a modern hybrid auto, if this works out it will become a part of the garden.

To increase or decrease the umol you have to lower the height of the LED light correct? Would increasing the Co2 to maybe 1000ppm allow you to increase the umol higher then 800?
 

Bradley_Danks

bdanks.com
Veteran
I'm curious if the local greenhouse grower was running semi-autos for the larger yield. Ever ran any semi autos?
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
To increase or decrease the umol you have to lower the height of the LED light correct? Would increasing the Co2 to maybe 1000ppm allow you to increase the umol higher then 800?
I do not use CO2, but I ran some intensity tests to see where the break point was.
Black Dog, Advanced XTE, and Hydrogrow all use the same spectrum and the plants showed gains up to 1100 umol. More than 1400 umol and the plants began losing health rapidly.
Brands with more than four to one red performed poorly in comparison regardless of intensity.

The beam angle of the LED determines penetration.
A 60 degree beam at 24" has twice the intensity as it does at 48".
A 120 degree beam at 24" has four times the intensity as it does at 48".
A bare bulb has 1/8 the intensity at 48" as at 24".

So many choices, so much deception in advertising. Trial and error over the years helps a little.
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
I'm curious if the local greenhouse grower was running semi-autos for the larger yield. Ever ran any semi autos?
I am not familiar with semi-autos. The summers here get up to 21/3 of actual direct sunlight and the three hours are not very dark, a book can be read all night.
Back in the 1980's a visitor from Russia brought some seeds grown in the same latitudes (65* north) and they performed flawlessly in this light. Most definitely full auto as they were the original Ruderalis. Smoked very poorly with small conical buds.
I am interested in learning more of semi-autos as I assembled a 1000 watt (described above but changed the 400 watt CMH to 600 watt) single plant area that is not light tight at all. Seems a waste if I can only get 3 and 4 ounce yields.
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
Planted on January 5, so today's photo is 33 days old.
The final lighting is a Solis Tek 600 watt HID overhead, chosen for both it's UVB and it's 1:1 ratio of 680 nm to 730 nm outputs.
The UVB keeps it frosty and the reds enable the Emerson Effect, tripling the photosynthesis rate of deep red light.
The side lights are 300 watts of LED growlight bars to keep it bushy. 100 watts of T8 lizard lights bring the total UVB up to .7%, really close to the sun's percentage.

If autoflower's are small then I am trying for the biggest small plant I can get.
 

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  • Auto Lemon Skunk, planted 01-05, transplanted 01-23, today is 02-07.jpg
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Plant looks healthy - idk about "semi" autoflowers - sounds like a made up term for autoflowers which get big. Can a plant have some autoflower properties that just trigger flowering a bit early but still be somewhat dependant on photo period?
 

niceeven

Member
Plant looks healthy - idk about "semi" autoflowers - sounds like a made up term for autoflowers which get big. Can a plant have some autoflower properties that just trigger flowering a bit early but still be somewhat dependant on photo period?

Very relevant questions. Real answers will likely trickle in as times flies.
In the meantime, this is what I have concluded. Regarding to your last questions: if they are still dependant on photo period then I would tend to want referring to them as 'adapted regulars or adapted photo period reliant plants. I would trust there is a myriad of such exemples out there.

In my mind, so called semi autos are in a different family all together . To simplify: some so called semi autos can be kept in veg under a long light period. Often times 24h maybe 22h I am not certain. I that case they behave like regulars in such conditions but would you decrease the light period they would possibly, if not more than likely trigger.

Let's look at what seems to trigger autos and semi autos. It would appear that the tap root reaching the bottom of a container and then beginning circling about tends to trigger the flowering mechanisms in a hurry. Hence the practice of wanting to place autos in a larger container in order to achieve larger yields.

Of course thats not exactly breakthrough science, we do know for instance that placing a plant in a larger container will help achieve larger plants. The point here being that when dealing with semi-autos, we are looking at plants who will be more susceptible to reach larger sized when given the proper suitable conditions.

Conversely, for having done it myself, place a semi-auto into a smaller container, under say 18h of light and leave them there long enough and they will turn. I have experienced that. ( for the record hurry them outside and they will often turn back but they aren't the same plants anymore, I try avoiding that) Do the same thing with a photo period plant and more than likely you will get a root bound photo period plant. Although some so called regulars are notorious for 'turning' when left in a tight pot to long.

Now, look at how to achieve that semi-auto trait. Answer:I am working on it.

But lets look at the following: If you where to cross a fully auto plant with a photo period plant. What would you get? A small portion of them would be auto's (we are taking of the first generation) for the experts out there we are looking at what ? something in the realm of 20- 25%
Then the rest will be regulars right? No. Some, a small number, could be susceptible in being semi autos.

I am sure you could then reach a set of reasonable conclusions about finding who they are if they are there.

But there is a lot more to it. Auto's that are successively bx with parent stock that are regular may achieve that as well at and to a point. In my humble uneducated opinion that's probably what we are seeing out there in terms of 'Autos' that behave like 'semi autos' as they would have been bred to achieve more potency and more yield.

This is just so,thing to wrap your brain around as there is no doubts on my mind that there is a tremendous amount of knowledge on this site.

I am sure that if you talk to the right people 'more will be revealed'.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Plant looks healthy - idk about "semi" autoflowers - sounds like a made up term for autoflowers which get big. Can a plant have some autoflower properties that just trigger flowering a bit early but still be somewhat dependant on photo period?

Yes, as the other poster , niceeven, said...some will be auto (not stabilized), others semi-auto needing light change (indoors)to cause bloom effect. Outdoors it would be on sun's own time. The stabilization is when auto x photo is back crossed with auto a few more generations to create full fledged auto with photoperiod traits (taste/effect, etc). Then inbred.....
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
Forty days since planting. I had hoped the plant would be larger before flowering, but the info box does say one to two ounces yield.

After actually comprehending what the information box said on yields I ordered some Euforia Autoflower seeds.
Meanwhile this one has a few weeks to grow, will be leaving it on the veg mix for a while yet hoping for a little stretch.
 

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  • Auto Lemon Skunk showing buds high and low at 40 days from planting seed.jpg
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Bradley_Danks

bdanks.com
Veteran
Autos can be used to bring the flowering time down in photoperiod varieties. The way I use semi autos is to trigger flowering with about 9 hours or less of dark period. The minimum amount of dark I've seen photo periods require to flower is about 9.5 hours. My semi auto "killer kush fast version" flowers at about 9 hours of dark.

From what I've seen semi autos can be bred to trigger flowering in anything from 1 hour of dark on.

For me the challenge is finding the semi-autos that flower at about 8.5 hours dark. That will let my outdoor finish near the end of august. That would let me maximize yield and get out before the rain!
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
With climate change interior Alaska has gone from arid to semi-arid. About a tenth the rain Oregon averages.
It is the freezing temperatures beginning in September while there is still less than eight hours of darkness that hurt, or the occasional August snow.

I am still looking for a high yield full auto to grow through solstice, if Euforia doesn't do it I have two more strains on my list and enough time to test them. I prefer the Euforia if it can be made to grow large.
This first auto was a freebie, I had never considered them before.
 

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Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
Forty five days, only five since I last posted an update.
First autoflower, too soon it will be the norm and most of the present thrill will be gone.
Meanwhile the last five days have the plant filling out rapidly.
Started at 18/6 with 600 watts of 10,000K overhead and 300 watts of LED side lights. The last 100 watts is T8 lizard lights. Will finish with the same lights and schedule.
Since auto flowers are small the next crop will have three plants in the circle's three foot diameter sweet spot.
Pictures of the whole plant showed no detail. The pistols are stubby and sturdy with the fuzz so short as to be almost invisible.
 

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Bradley_Danks

bdanks.com
Veteran
With climate change interior Alaska has gone from arid to semi-arid. About a tenth the rain Oregon averages.
It is the freezing temperatures beginning in September while there is still less than eight hours of darkness that hurt, or the occasional August snow.

I am still looking for a high yield full auto to grow through solstice, if Euforia doesn't do it I have two more strains on my list and enough time to test them. I prefer the Euforia if it can be made to grow large.
This first auto was a freebie, I had never considered them before.

That your buds in January? Howed that happen?
 

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