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Old 11-06-2019, 06:33 PM #101
DunHav`nFun
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The biggest thing you don`t want is plants side by side overgrowin and chokin each other out competing for the same space and environment including light , plus your plants can only end up as wide sideways as the container size by end of stretch bro.....and that`s what`s....

Gonna determine size of plants and weight once dried and cured.....strain dependent of course , but you see what I`m sayin.....my plants touched each other by end of stretch , and ended up 12" wide and 32-36" long depending on time of yr …..winter crops were always better frost/trichome production wise but all in all averages equaled out length and weight wise across the board yr round.... aight...

Said I was done and goin fishin in the pm or did I.....Me and the dawg`s goin fishin….., so later ….

Peace....DHF..... …...
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:27 AM #102
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Good point.
I was worried a little bit about this as well. It's just another variable that we will dial in with runs... Veg time and shape, as well as angle, etc... Worst case scenario, I will grow 2+ zip plants one to a cubby...

Hopefully I have enough good yielding strains to find phenos that grow one large cola and a couple good size secondary colas... Or a good 1 zip cola would be nice too lol.... All will be revealed in runs....

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Old 11-07-2019, 06:13 AM #103
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Ok....Went fishin and had a great day out with the dawg ….. Mullet jumping everywhere , 76 degrees and all but no wind.....Dolphins cruising up and down the Intracoastal , caught some decent sized redfish and a couple speckled trout , so all in all.....Bangin day....now...…

What`s wrong with usin 4 of those shelves all the way around and do 96 plantlets with as much wattage as it takes to get as close to 50 watts per sq ft as possible....I mean....that`s 4 levels of 24 plants …..all that`s needed is 1 oz single colas with a horti-net out front to rest em on for support while keeping the containers from bein snatched down from plant weight......and.....

Most all popular Indica dominant strains/hybrids/polyhybrids for the last 15 yrs at least are for the most part single cola structure as smaller plants , with very few cultivars having the ability to self-branch that young before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12.....so....that said.....as you dial each pheno hunt on each new run , you`ll know post Harvey if the lowers on your plantlets made anything worth keeping , or if they need chopped out/lollipopped for the sake of the 1 single cola swellin more next run.....IOW , and for instance...…

I had clone only Chem D for a couple yrs in my Ebb and Flow bucket rooms before I switched over to coco , so I knew what growth structure she put out naturally without takin too much out of her , and she worked perfectly in the racks.....but....a pain in the ass to dial nutrient needs wise as well as couldn`t get that bitch to root in any sort of timely manner for shit , and it was a damn good thing I was perpetual so I could accommodate her cuz I`d have shitcanned her ass otherwise.....but.....

Once dialed.....Chem D is true old school dope that hits hard and hangs , and once dialed yields accordingly....anyways.....`ol lady said come ta bed , so get ta work and ….

Peace....DHF..... ……..
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:18 PM #104
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Ok....Went fishin and had a great day out with the dawg ….. Mullet jumping everywhere , 76 degrees and all but no wind.....Dolphins cruising up and down the Intracoastal , caught some decent sized redfish and a couple speckled trout , so all in all.....Bangin day....now...…

What`s wrong with usin 4 of those shelves all the way around and do 96 plantlets with as much wattage as it takes to get as close to 50 watts per sq ft as possible....I mean....that`s 4 levels of 24 plants …..all that`s needed is 1 oz single colas with a horti-net out front to rest em on for support while keeping the containers from bein snatched down from plant weight......and.....

Most all popular Indica dominant strains/hybrids/polyhybrids for the last 15 yrs at least are for the most part single cola structure as smaller plants , with very few cultivars having the ability to self-branch that young before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12.....so....that said.....as you dial each pheno hunt on each new run , you`ll know post Harvey if the lowers on your plantlets made anything worth keeping , or if they need chopped out/lollipopped for the sake of the 1 single cola swellin more next run.....IOW , and for instance...…

I had clone only Chem D for a couple yrs in my Ebb and Flow bucket rooms before I switched over to coco , so I knew what growth structure she put out naturally without takin too much out of her , and she worked perfectly in the racks.....but....a pain in the ass to dial nutrient needs wise as well as couldn`t get that bitch to root in any sort of timely manner for shit , and it was a damn good thing I was perpetual so I could accommodate her cuz I`d have shitcanned her ass otherwise.....but.....

Once dialed.....Chem D is true old school dope that hits hard and hangs , and once dialed yields accordingly....anyways.....`ol lady said come ta bed , so get ta work and ….

Peace....DHF..... ……..

I am glad that you had a good day fishin with the dawg...When you come out here, you should plan your trip when the yellow fin tuna and blue marlin are hitting.

In regards to the strains, all the strains I have now, or are on the way currently fit that bill. I just took advantage of the Halloween sale at the seed co, and have some strains that are pretty much, except for the freebies, all high yielding, indica dominant hybrids/polyhybrids that generally have that single cola structure to them. Based on things I have read you say many times (a couple others as well), Chem D is leading the way, followed by GDP, Sour D, Cotton Candy Kush, Big Blue Cheese, and Super Skunk. Then there are the freebies that came along with those in the form of tangerine dream, blueberry widow, and g13 haze... the freebies don't really fit the bill, but they sound interesting for head stash variety... The tangerine dream is an autoflower, so I will probably just throw it into the racks while they are not full and see what happens... the others I'll do the same...just throw them in while I am ramping up to speed and have the space...I probably wont keep any moms and they are only a couple seeds of each.

As for the ole 96ers... There is absolutely nothing wrong with lining 4 of those in a square and hitting 96 plants in an inner diameter of 4'x4' or 16 sf x 50 watts, would equal a required 800 watts of lighting to hit that 50w/sf. I can do that by stacking a 600 and 315w light, which would actually be 57.19 w/sf.

Unfortunately, these bedrooms at the compound are tiny like jail cells, like 6.5x9 with built in cabs that I am considering turning into drying racks....so I could not fit 2 of those in there. Since the racks are 1' deep, they can be centered on the line of the 4' square and each have 6" in and 6" out of the square, bringing the inner area to 3'x3' or 9 sf. That would make a single 600w light 66.67 w/sf. Or if I want to distribute the light more evenly, I could stack the 315s and get 70w/sf. If I do that, you will notice that the 4th shelf on the narrower racks have a roof over the top shelf. If I am stacking the 315s, I might as well expand the longer racks to include the same set up as the narrower ones and set two more plants on the 5th shelf all around. This would be an extra 6 plants on the long racks and 4 on the short ones for a total 20 more plants, or an even 100 total in the same 3'3' foot print. Further, I will be able to fit two of those quads in each of the 3 bedrooms. If I could pull a zip per plant, or anywhere near it, the numbers will be mind-blowing.
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:38 PM #105
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Ok.....Let`s not get ahead of ourselves.....while it`s fresh on my mind I`ll tryta answer all your questions I can remember.....First off.....there`s no reason to go crazy inside the grow area covering the fronts of the shelves with reflectix and makin slits for the plantlets to stick through.....My racks had a lotta exposed wood and I chose to cover it in reflectix rather than paint....

The racks/shelves/rootzones needta be able to breathe and allow constant air movement so as to prevent any stagnant air pockets anywhere....Cover the backs , or hang curtains made of reflectix usin shower curtain holders and you can slide the shit sideways to access the plants while closing the whole grow area off as needed....just things to ponder....now.....

Clone factory.....If you`re goin down the rabbit hole , you`re gonna need aerocloners for as many plants as you talk of ultimately runnin , so sure you can build em , but there`s a couple on the market that`re kinda pricy , but they`ve got fans incorporated into the units that prevent the pumps from heatin the water and causin rootrot…..or you can build your own and put the pumps on timers so they`ll only run intermittently and not continuously to heat the solution and cause anaerobic conditions inside said units....aight....now.....

The corners are dead....that`s where I discussed light falls off , the plants will grow into each other , choking em out and competing for light as well as environment , so....Gotta back the shelves away from each other to compensate , and that makes the grow area bigger , so that`s why I angled my corners , and you should too....or somethin similar cuz there`s many waysta skin a mule.....and lastly....

If you use cloners and let em stay in said units long enough ta grow sufficient legs , the clear cups could be bypassed and then transplanted straight into the finish containers , and that moves things along faster without a preveg sequence , unless you wanted the plantlets to acclimate and set roots in the bags before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12....but....

Runnin the kinds of numbers you`re considering , the finished dried and cured plant weight goes down considerably for the weight possibilities....I think 1 oz is pie in the sky numbers without some veg and rootset before the flip , but that`s my opinion from many yrs of doin this shit , so it`s an educated guess but educated.....aight.....

Get ta work and.....

Peace....DHF..... …….
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:56 PM #106
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Ok.....Let`s not get ahead of ourselves.....while it`s fresh on my mind I`ll tryta answer all your questions I can remember.....First off.....there`s no reason to go crazy inside the grow area covering the fronts of the shelves with reflectix and makin slits for the plantlets to stick through.....My racks had a lotta exposed wood and I chose to cover it in reflectix rather than paint....

The racks/shelves/rootzones needta be able to breathe and allow constant air movement so as to prevent any stagnant air pockets anywhere....Cover the backs , or hang curtains made of reflectix usin shower curtain holders and you can slide the shit sideways to access the plants while closing the whole grow area off as needed....just things to ponder....now.....

Clone factory.....If you`re goin down the rabbit hole , you`re gonna need aerocloners for as many plants as you talk of ultimately runnin , so sure you can build em , but there`s a couple on the market that`re kinda pricy , but they`ve got fans incorporated into the units that prevent the pumps from heatin the water and causin rootrot…..or you can build your own and put the pumps on timers so they`ll only run intermittently and not continuously to heat the solution and cause anaerobic conditions inside said units....aight....now.....

The corners are dead....that`s where I discussed light falls off , the plants will grow into each other , choking em out and competing for light as well as environment , so....Gotta back the shelves away from each other to compensate , and that makes the grow area bigger , so that`s why I angled my corners , and you should too....or somethin similar cuz there`s many waysta skin a mule.....and lastly....

If you use cloners and let em stay in said units long enough ta grow sufficient legs , the clear cups could be bypassed and then transplanted straight into the finish containers , and that moves things along faster without a preveg sequence , unless you wanted the plantlets to acclimate and set roots in the bags before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12....but....

Runnin the kinds of numbers you`re considering , the finished dried and cured plant weight goes down considerably for the weight possibilities....I think 1 oz is pie in the sky numbers without some veg and rootset before the flip , but that`s my opinion from many yrs of doin this shit , so it`s an educated guess but educated.....aight.....

Get ta work and.....

Peace....DHF..... …….
I will cover the backs with the reflectix.

I agree with everything you said, of course. I built a 38 site aero cloner and I will likely need to build another one or two... I will also use the plastic cups because like you said, I will need a constant supply of a lot of clones to feed the beast. One of the ways to do that, as you suggested, is to root a sucker branch/lateral or two from each clone waiting to be flipped, which means that there must be a week or two of veg time to let the roots develop before flipping them...
As you suggest, I will let the roots develop well on the aero cloner clones, and veg them in the 2g grow bags, hand watered. For the cup clones, I will let them develop strong root systems in the cups, then transplant them into their 2g bags to veg.

I am thinking about the veg set up... if I am vegging in the 2g bags, how am I going to get the most clones properly vegged with the least amount of effort?

If I am hand watering, I will let the root system develop with a few days of eod watering, and get to watering once per day by the end of week one as HGO Suggests. Them build up to 3x per day by the end of week 2, and that is when the branching will start ramping up. and I can shape them and get them ready to flip when they are done.

The question is, how do I light them, feed them, and house them for this?

My first thought was to do kind of a mini stadium set up with a circle around a vertical 315 CMH, then a couple more layers on risers...and hand water.

The problem with that is that I do not want to promote too much horizontal growth, though I can prune them into the shape I am looking for that way and root all the trimmings to feed the beast.

Another thought was to veg them in an exact replica of what they will be flowering in with a pre veg under floros to develop strong root systems, then moving into the veg racks where branching and shaping is the focus, until they are the right size and shape to go into the flowering racks... This seems like the "right" way to do it, even though you kind of scoffed the vertical vegging the first time I brought it up.

I am completely open to suggestions, of course... I am trying to figure out how to veg a couple hundred clones in 2g grow bags and vertical seems like the answer.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:33 PM #107
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What ta do what ta do.....Dewd…..you`re blazin trails I never ventured down , so I can give you my acct of what I did that worked for me.....

I had 2 cabs for each flip room and each one had 2 levels for rootin cuts with T-8`s and the bottom for pre veg till transplant with T-5`s...... all in the clear cups , and I wanna stress this again if you don`t remember anything , remember this...…

Veg horizontally with T-5`s and the best bulbs you can get to stack nodes and build laterals , and when they get put into the grow area with the HID lighting and flipped 12/12 , with proper watts per sq ft and constant feeds to keep metabolism high , you can almost see em twitch and blast off toward the big lights.....and hey.....

The T-8`s were just low wattage light conditions for the cuts to concentrate on building roots and not on foliage , but the T-5`s were 50 watts per sq ft 8 bulb 432 watts blastin the fully rooted cuts as soon as they could get down to the bottom level for foliage and node stackin....so.....

I can`t say if vertical veg will help you bro , that`s somethin you`ll haveta find out on your own...…I`m here ta help where I can.....everything else is the X factors to be worked out

Peace....DHF..... …….
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:27 AM #108
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What ta do what ta do.....Dewd…..you`re blazin trails I never ventured down , so I can give you my acct of what I did that worked for me.....

I had 2 cabs for each flip room and each one had 2 levels for rootin cuts with T-8`s and the bottom for pre veg till transplant with T-5`s...... all in the clear cups , and I wanna stress this again if you don`t remember anything , remember this...…

Veg horizontally with T-5`s and the best bulbs you can get to stack nodes and build laterals , and when they get put into the grow area with the HID lighting and flipped 12/12 , with proper watts per sq ft and constant feeds to keep metabolism high , you can almost see em twitch and blast off toward the big lights.....and hey.....

The T-8`s were just low wattage light conditions for the cuts to concentrate on building roots and not on foliage , but the T-5`s were 50 watts per sq ft 8 bulb 432 watts blastin the fully rooted cuts as soon as they could get down to the bottom level for foliage and node stackin....so.....

I can`t say if vertical veg will help you bro , that`s somethin you`ll haveta find out on your own...…I`m here ta help where I can.....everything else is the X factors to be worked out

Peace....DHF..... …….
I have that 9 bulb t5 I can use for the horizontal pre-veg if I want... I can also pre-veg horizontal under a MH... IIRC, in Heath's last tree grow thread on here, which you kept going for him, answering questions and whatnot for people when he was busy with family and life, Heath mentioned that he vegged those trees under a single 400 MH hung vertically between them. That is what inspired my vertical veg idea....of course, that was a completely different style of grow, set up...etc. I can always put the moms under the 9 bulb T8, with the aero cloners to the side under that footprint... and put the army of cups under the t8 fixture... and I can experiment with the vert veg on the side because hey... like you said...there are going to be a shitload of clones. Whichever way gives us the size and shape we are looking for in the fastest time.

At the end of the day... that is all part of dialing in the system. We know it is not going to just immediately snap into place....it will take runs to get up to speed, and some more to dial it, but it will get better with each run, believe that.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:33 AM #109
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Also, let's talk coco for a sec... You used the chunky coco husk and the stringy coc fiber at what ratio in your bags? I know you used to wash them with SM-90 which is no longer available, but anything else to prepare it?
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:04 AM #110
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Hey swap.....
Hope it's cool I swung by...this thread is super sick for sure...I see ichy and DHF popping in here frequently,that's killer .....I'm loving the updates....
Hey DHF I sent Cha a PM....just was wondering if ya received....
Swap these racks I hear about are gonna be something serious im sure of ...
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