[shaggyballs]

The Nazi SS was just doing there job and just following orders.
Shall we give them a free pass also.
Same exact thing going on here, the police are enforcing laws they feel are unjust. (they are morally obligated not to)

Maybe the cops should say this little paragraph, like I use to say the pledge of allegiance in school before starting everyday.

I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Do you feel the current police force would follow this rule or just a supervisor?
They do what the boss tells them some of them completely blinded to what they are really doing and how it effects others.
Or they can just say F#CK the people, I have a paycheck to earn.
This is the most common response. F#CK the people, show me the money!

Or maybe I have it all wrong:
They only want to serve and protect the people as stated in the oath they have sworn to uphold. They are all just afraid of losing there jobs. So they continue to arrest citizens for a law they feel is unjust.
Now that only serves to protect their paycheck, the way I see it.

[armedoldhippy]

everyone that has a job working for someone else (a huge majority of us) has to follow rules set up by the employer. simple fact. comparing police officers to Nazi SS guards murdering people & tossing the bodies into the furnaces is over the top even for you, shag. fucking pitiful...

[stoned-trout]

Fuckem...I won't be buying any weed from em anyhow....yeehaw

[armedoldhippy]

Originally Posted by stoned-trout

Fuckem...I won't be buying any weed from em anyhow....yeehaw

and HERE! is the correct response. boycott the hell out of them...

[Crazy Chester]

shaggyballs is right. There is truth and the rest is BS. They broke the only law in the universe - the Golden Rule. Breaking that law is ALWAYS wrong. Excuses like "got to support a family" or "just following orders" to justify stealing from others is ALWAYS wrong. Plato was right; his student Aristotle was wrong. There is an absolute right - everything else is wrong. Anyone working in the business of coercing others who are not hurting anyone is immoral - period! No excuses!

[Crazy Chester]

I've got a question for you, armedoldhippy:

How did the "I'm just following orders" thing work out for the soldiers prosecuted at Nuremburg?

Also, if faced with not having a paycheck to support their families, do you really think the cops you are defending wouldn't follow an order to do the exact same thing the SS did - even the "nice" ones?

Do you really think their "training" (following immoral orders without question) would be so easily discarded?

If so, you may want to consider WWII era Germans probably felt the same way. Clearly, it didn't turn out that way for them, though. The training of the SS prevailed, despite the fact that what they were ordered to do was pure evil.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but there's not a snowball's chance in Hell of the mess the world is in not continuing to snowball into the kind of pure mayhem Germany degenerated into by the end of WWII if people don't get their moral compass straight now.

I just care too much to sit and watch it happen without pointing out WHY it happened and will continue to happen. That reason is the prevailing social behavior of the world is to break the only law that exists, has ever existed and will ever exist and nowhere but in the military and "law enforcement" is it so obvious.

[armedoldhippy]

Originally Posted by Crazy Chester

I've got a question for you, armedoldhippy:

How did the "I'm just following orders" thing work out for the soldiers prosecuted at Nuremburg?

Also, if faced with not having a paycheck to support their families, do you really think the cops you are defending wouldn't follow an order to do the exact same thing the SS did - even the "nice" ones?

Do you really think their "training" (following immoral orders without question) would be so easily discarded?

If so, you may want to consider WWII era Germans probably felt the same way. Clearly, it didn't turn out that way for them, though. The training of the SS prevailed, despite the fact that what they were ordered to do was pure evil.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but there's not a snowball's chance in Hell of the mess the world is in not continuing to snowball into the kind of pure mayhem Germany degenerated into by the end of WWII if people don't get their moral compass straight now.

I just care too much to sit and watch it happen without pointing out WHY it happened and will continue to happen. That reason is the prevailing social behavior of the world is to break the only law that exists, has ever existed and will ever exist and nowhere but in the military and "law enforcement" is it so obvious.

i have answers, but you are not going to like them. lots of those responsible for the death camps were convicted, & many of them executed. however, they were a very small fraction of the members of Gemanys military. the only small fry prosecuted were those that actually took part in killings etc.
no, i DON"T think that local LEO would kill folks just for a paycheck. plus, i don't think that YOU believe it either. not really. the hyperbole in this is so fucking far over the top it is stupid. is it possible? there is obviously a chance of a random nut-job being willing to go that far. out of MILLIONS of LEO, the odds are pretty good you have a few homicidal maniacs. let's ask Black Lives Matter about that, shall we?
"immoral orders" LOL! possibly legally indefensible if looked at by a truly unbiased panel of judicial experts (good luck impanelling one of those), but not morally (to the average man on the street). the voters put the folks in office to do those jobs, making our laws. sometimes horrible results occur. we are dealing with the fall-out now, & the voters AND lots of politicians are turning the tide.
the average German citizen, if you read the history books, was NOT in favor/did not know what evil their govt was performing. no doubt some did, but i'll bet it was a minority. to smear the average citizen with your big brush is like saying "well, the KKK is a gang of neo-nazi racists, so everyone else must support them!" WRONG! if our country gets judged by the mistakes we make (such as who we elect) then we are all going to hell anyway. as usual, i ask not that you agree with me, but ask only that you look at your neighbors and ask yourself - is it me? is it him? or are we BOTH dumbfucks....

[YetiOG]

Originally Posted by shaggyballs

If all these folks had spoke up when they were jailing people for cannabis the world would be a different place.
The intentions of this thread are not to call people out or to be any type of accusation or hurtful to anyone in any way.
I would just like to know what these folks are thinking and why?

Anyway:
Here is what I found so far.
Thank you to TheBlackman for the Canadian list.

Canada
-Chuck Rifici, was the CFO of the Liberal Party of Canada.
* founder and former CEO of Tweed
(now partnered with Toyko Smoke to form Nesta.co)

-Mark Zekulin, CEO of Tweed
•former senior adviser to former Ontario finance minister Dwight Duncan

-Norman Inkster, Independent Director at Mettrum
•former head of the RCMP

-Dr. Joshua Tepper, Independent Director at Mettrum
•formerly Assistant Deputy Minister at the Ministry of Health , Senior Medical Officer for Health Canada,

-Tom Shipley, Director of Quality Assurance, Tweed
•formerly worked on toxicology research, while at Health Canada,

-Mike Harcourt, Chairman of True Leaf Medicine Inc
•former B.C. Premier

-Kash Heed, strategic consultant with National Green BioMed
•Former B.C. Solicitor General and former West Vancouver police chief

-Herb Dhaliwal, Chairman, National Green BioMed
•former Vancouver MP and federal cabinet minister.

-John Turner, medicinal marijuana applicant in Ontario (With Kash Heed)
•Former Prime Minister of Canada

-Mr. Belot, Board of Directors for Aurora
•was a public servant in several ministries within the Ontario government

-Brian Wagner, Company founder and CEO NHP Consulting (consults for prospective LP's)
•Brian was invited to play a strong role in Health Canada’s Program Advisory Committee

-Tim Humberstone, ABcann Director / Senior Person in Charge
•former twenty year member of the RCMP included roles in Municipal/Federal Drug Enforcement and with the Joint Forces Organized Crime Agency. Tim has also received extensive training by the RCMP in providing expert court opinion in the fields of cannabis trafficking and production techniques.

-Ivan Vrana, founder of Aslan Ross Consulting / speaker mmpr summit
•Previously Mr. Vrána worked for the Federal Government for over 15 years. He worked at the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, Finance Canada and in various senior policy positions at Health Canada. At Health Canada he was in charge of the team that developed the policy rationale which led to the implementation of the Marihuana for Medical Purposes Regulations.Mr. Vrána is also a regular Lecturer at both Carleton and Concordia universities and teaches a course that examines the internal communication tools governments use to development and implement public policy.

-Sandy Pratt, Chief Financial Officer, Emerald Health
•Worked at Deloitte ( auditing firm involved in the senate scandal), Vice President of Business Development and Executive Financial Officer of the Royal British Columbia Museum, a Crown corporation.

-Shane Morris, VP, Scientific Affairs and Stakeholder Relations Hydropothecary CEO (now Canadian Cannabis Corp.)
•Since 2000, Shane has been in a range of leadership roles within the Federal Government, from Treasury Board of Canada’s senior advisor (Cabinet Operations) on regulatory affairs to director of policy leadership and Reporting for Resources Canada’s major projects management office.

-George Smitherman, THC BioMed
former Ontario Liberal deputy premier
•more than 30 years to public policy fields at the Municipal, Provincial and Federal Level, where roles as Senior Advisor, Minister of Energy and Infrastructure and Ontario’s Minister of Health were held.

-Jake Ryan, Director of Security: Tilray
* former RCMP Intelligence Officer and federal criminal investigator overseeing all aspects of Tilray's security protocols and operations.

-Ernie Eves, Chairman, Timeless Herbal Care — a Jamaican medical marijuana company.
•former Progressive Conservative premier of Ontario

-Kim Derry, a promoter of marijuana facility THC Meds Ontario Inc.
•deputy chief of the Toronto Police Service under Mr. Blair,

-John Reynolds, advisor to Vodis Innovative Pharmaceuticals Inc
•former MP with the Progressive Conservative, Reform and Canadian Alliance parties.

-Senator Larry Campbell, advisor to Vodis Innovative Pharmaceuticals Inc.
•former Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer and Vancouver mayor. And sitting Senator...

-Barry Daniel, Wildflower’s head of security
•Former Abbotsford police chief.

-Cam Battley, Aurora Senior Vice President, Communications and Medical Affairs
•Former Legislative Assistant to the Canadian Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, where he was responsible for developing legislation and steering it through the House of Commons, as well as negotiating with Opposition parties and stakeholder groups.

USA

Former DEA Agent Patrick Moen joined the lucrative legal marijuana industry.
Another OR. DEA agent has made the switch also, Paul Schmidt, who once served as the highest-ranking DEA agent in Oregon, then after working as a state inspector of medical pot dispensaries in Colorado is now working as a medical marijuana business consultant.


Below is the list of the 30 law enforcement officials who support legal cannabis.
Norm Stamper—retired Seattle Police Chief
Don Clark— retired Multnomah County Sheriff
Stephen Downing— retired Los Angeles Police Department Deputy Chief
Kris Olson— retired US Attorney for the District of Oregon
Bill Riggs— retired Oregon Supreme Court Justice, Circuit Court Trial Judge and Court of Appeals Judge
Inge Fryklund— retired Assistant State’s Attorney
Paul Stiegleder— retired Lieutenant Sheriff
Darian Stanford— former Drug Unit Prosecutor
Pete Tutmark— former County Deputy Sheriff
Jay Fished—Prosecutor
Tony Ryan—retired Denver Police Department Lieutenant
Finn Selander—retired Special Agent
Jason Thomas—former Detention Officer and Sheriff’s Deputy
John Baker—retired Sergeant
Jay Fleming—former Undercover Narcotics Officer
Le Roy Washington—retired Federal Probation Officer
Nicholas Dial—former Deputy Sheriff
Arnold Byron—retired US Customs Inspector
Matt McCally—former Corrections Officer
MacKenzie Allen—retired Deputy Sherif
Leonard Frieling—former Judge
Jim Doherty—former Prosecutor and Corrections Officer
Shelley Fox-Loken—retired Parole and Probation Officer
James Peet—former Police Officer
David A Nichols—retired Superior Court Judge
David Doddridge—retired Narcotics Officer and Military Police Officer
Diane Goldstein—retired Lieutenant Commander
Kyle Kazan—former Police Officer
Nate Bradley—former Deputy Sheriff
Leo Laurence—former Deputy Sheriff

Source
https://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/28...-industry.html

I dont think the answers you have in the polling are totally fair. You left out the "they did it because it was a job, they are now getting into the industry because its a job"

My mother is a cop. She just got a med card. Shes cool with weed now but tossed peeps in jail for 25 years for smoking dope. She feels bad now knowing most of those people were just trying to live better but she cant change it now. She even said she would grow if she knew how, a job is a job. Goes to show most people do whatever to make some cash they dont care what they do. They willl change their mind in a instant for cash.

Im glad alll those fucks got out of policing and such and got into a good line of work. Some joined the 5-0 believeing it would make a difference in the world, maybe thats why many are now joining our side. They have seen we do more good everyday growing and selling medicine vs them busting us, taking it, or livelihoods amd throwing us in the can. They peobably realize now they can do some actual good amd be part of the community as a whole not just their little 5-0 club

[Crazy Chester]

Hey, armedoldhippy, I just drafted a long thoughtful response to your post, which promptly evaporated into thin air once I hit "post." Oh well.

The main thing is, I only know less than a handful of folks who live their lives in a way that causes no unjustified suffering.

I am not one of those. Yes, I am one of those dumb-asses (I love that term). I'm one of those dumb-asses responsible for how messed up this world is because I pay taxes - and I hate myself for it, because it pays the cops to ruin people's lives who hurt no one.

I think you may be under misconception that there is something good about government. However, there is nothing good about government and never has been. In fact, the government the US has is similar to what Nazi Germany had - fascism. In the US it is more like corporate fascism. You know, he who rules makes the rules and he who rules will hide behind various discarnate corporate entities).

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Smedley Butler (who was Commandant of the US Marine Corps, a Major General by rank and an all around badass). If you haven't already read his great and courageous book "War Is A Racket," you really should. In it, he lays out - in great detail - the reality of the corporate fascist state the US was in 1935. I don't think anything has gotten any better since Smedley Butler exposed it for what it is and it has only gotten worse.

The more interesting point is, who else knew what Smedley Butler knew? He was WAY up there in the hierarchy, so probably not many. However, there had to have been many who knew bits and pieces of what was happening, enough that their conscience was screaming "what you are doing is wrong." Yet, none but Smedley did anything but keep their mouth shut to not endanger their paycheck. That only helped what happened in WWII happen, which was not saving the world from fascism, but was getting the world deeper into fascism - and killing a lot of innocent folks in the process.

As to cops not killing innocents for a pay check. They already do, have and will continue to do so. Most cops on the beat haven't had to deal with that, but how many of them are ex-military. Why do you think they were killing all those people in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan? To protect "freedom" in the world, or to protect and advance the corporate interests of the people who sent them there?

And killing is just one of the immoral actions of cops. They also enslave people who do no harm by, for example, imprisoning those who possess, grow and sell cannabis. They put the cuffs on them - not the dumb-ass politicians who tell them to do it. They are morally responsible for those actions, whether they, or you, like it or not.

Apologizing for their actions will not make the world a better place; it didn't in 1930's United States and it didn't in Nazi Germany and it won't in present day United States. The fact is, that apologizing, saying "its only their job" and not recognizing the immorality of their actions - and not calling them out for it - WILL only make it worst.

The result will be that Nazi Germany will look like a picnic compared to what's coming because people no longer know right from wrong, or know and could care less.

If people's attitude towards their enslavers does not change, I guarantee there will be enough cops in the US who are willing to kill innocents to get a paycheck, just like in Nazi Germany. History is there for a reason - so we can learn from it. Thinking it won't happen here when what has happened up until now mirrors 1930's Germany is more than just wishful thinking, it is naive.

[armedoldhippy]

you have one valid point in there, RE ex military as LEO. they are conditioned to SHOOT FIRST in order to survive daily life in battle zones. between them, & the poorly trained/racist SOBs that slip through the cracks, there ARE more police shootings than should ever be allowed to occur. this is NOT new. until CITIZENS on the juries start saying "guilty", it is only going to get worse. when we start putting police in jail commensurate with the % of them that commit crimes, things will turn around. right now they get "get out of jail free" passes. this is totally unacceptable...