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Old 12-06-2017, 01:39 AM #1
Student Of Life
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An apparent potassium deficiency

This is my fourth run in this facility and the fourth time I've had this issue. It starts happening right after stretch. Symptoms are a yellowing/browning of edges of leaves from lower half of the plant, working it's way up the plant. Effected leaves eventually completely wither into a crisp and fall off the plant. Plants are on an auto-feed system fed 4 times a day. Coco is always moist.

Nutes - AN Sensi Coco Bloom A/B
- AN Big Bud Coco/Overdrive (depending on week#)
- AN Bud Factor X
- Have also used Canna Coco A/B with same issue
Coco - Canna bricks expanded and flushed down to feeding levels
Strength - Between 450 and 550 ppm
Ph - Between 5.6 and 6.2
Runoff Ppm - Between 550 and 850
Runoff Ph - Hovers around 6
Temps - 68-74F
Relative Humidity - Between 55 and 65%
Co2 - Set to 700ppm

Pics linked show the bad damage at lower section of plant, beginning stages of damage at middle section of plant, and an apparently healthy canopy that will be deficient before harvest. I get that deficiencies are normal with a flush, but this issue creeps it's way into the tops before I'm usually ready for the flush. I've had issues showing up in the canopy as early as week 5 in the past.

Sorry for not color correcting the photos. Also sorry for not attaching the pics here at the site. Tried to 3 times, but each time the 'attachments' pop-up just whited out and lagged up.

https://imgur.com/G4JrINr
https://imgur.com/MGLd5SJ
https://imgur.com/zYc2520
https://imgur.com/0snCg9N
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:40 AM #2
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I can see some significant leaf twist going on there, which points to a pH issue. Leaves tacoing is a mag thing.

Quick fix spray with Epsom salts. For future keep the pH a little tighter window. 5.9-6.1 is good for coco.

Nice looking room!
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:32 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester Beans View Post
I can see some significant leaf twist going on there, which points to a pH issue. Leaves tacoing is a mag thing.

Quick fix spray with Epsom salts. For future keep the pH a little tighter window. 5.9-6.1 is good for coco.

Nice looking room!

Thanks lester. I'll try to keep the pH more stable for the next week alongside flushing the coco out and see if that does anything. The leaves are falling rapidly now, which is worrisome.

AN likes to tack magnesium onto all their million additives. I've only noticed differences in big bud, overdrive, and factor x, and I use them at less than AN recommends. I think for that reason I get mag issues from time to time. Spraying in flower has always scared the crap outta me. Will it effect flavor/smoke at all?
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Old 12-14-2017, 03:11 PM #4
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1 year ago I posted in your other thread, when you were having similar problems...I warned you of exactly the dilemma you face now.

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Originally Posted by Bwanabud View Post

I'm out, best of luck gents...nothing for me to offer here

PS: If you think your plants are having a CaMg problem now at 1 month into veg, just wait till they are 4-6 weeks into flower



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Originally Posted by Bwanabud View Post
I was very clear in my advice to you, but I'll stop by your journal at 5 weeks into flower...based on your intended path, I unfortunately already know what to expect...thus my intention to help.

Best wishes and Merry Christmas
Never expect repeated mistakes to change the outcome of the future results,,,

But once again, Merry Christmas to you and yours.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:02 PM #5
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Oh hey bwana, I remember you lol. Looking back on your post, I can't seem to find anything too helpful to be honest. Here's a direct quote of what you advised me to do back when I was dumping 400+ ppm of calmag on my girls during my first grow;

"Dump the CaMg, check your PPM meter(8ml should be much higher than 350, you're pushing the mid-late range flower feed), get pots with better drainage(no larger than 2 gal.), rinse new pots with 5ml PG of A+B & 1/2 tspn of Epson PG. Mix correctly(A into water wait 15 minutes...B into water wait 15 minutes...then PH to 5.7-5.8 before adding Epson). The A+B will never need more than 2ml per gallon added, I never use any CaMg additive anymore...the base has plenty."

I've since cut out calmag almost entirely, giving them only a light dose (100-200ppm) whenever they show obvious deficiency signs. Drainage is and always has been good. I get runoff on a daily basis. pH is always between 5.6 and 6.2. True that I don't wait 15 minutes between A and B nutes (I've since moved to AN from Canna btw), so maybe that's it. Oh you also advised me to stay away from silica, which I no longer use, and to use multiple feeds, which I've always done in my flower room. I think it'd be helpful if you gave me some up-to-date advice my man, if you still see the problem clearly. Maybe link me to a few of your own journals, videos, or pics so I can see the differences too. I'm always down to learn.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:05 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Of Life View Post
Oh hey bwana, I remember you lol. Looking back on your post, I can't seem to find anything too helpful to be honest. Here's a direct quote of what you advised me to do back when I was dumping 400+ ppm of calmag on my girls during my first grow;

"Dump the CaMg, check your PPM meter(8ml should be much higher than 350, you're pushing the mid-late range flower feed), get pots with better drainage(no larger than 2 gal.), rinse new pots with 5ml PG of A+B & 1/2 tspn of Epson PG. Mix correctly(A into water wait 15 minutes...B into water wait 15 minutes...then PH to 5.7-5.8 before adding Epson). The A+B will never need more than 2ml per gallon added, I never use any CaMg additive anymore...the base has plenty."

I've since cut out calmag almost entirely, giving them only a light dose (100-200ppm) whenever they show obvious deficiency signs. Drainage is and always has been good. I get runoff on a daily basis. pH is always between 5.6 and 6.2. True that I don't wait 15 minutes between A and B nutes (I've since moved to AN from Canna btw), so maybe that's it. Oh you also advised me to stay away from silica, which I no longer use, and to use multiple feeds, which I've always done in my flower room. I think it'd be helpful if you gave me some up-to-date advice my man, if you still see the problem clearly. Maybe link me to a few of your own journals, videos, or pics so I can see the differences too. I'm always down to learn.
Oh hey SOL, yea I remember you too "lol"

You the same guy that won't listen any advice, members try to help you and you choose to ignore sound advice...then insult them with your "all knowing wisdom" When DHF, Dans Buds, and others add multiple posts of advice in detail...you choose to find a shortcut to success your way. I've offered help many times, and now you state "I can't seem to find anything too helpful to be honest" haha. I'd advise dumping more chemicals on them, and sing Olivia Newton John songs to them daily...hoping for some primo this round..."my man".

Here is the list of your threads, from day one on ICMag:

Some Coco Issues
Terrified of Broad Mites
2.0+ EC runoff and auto watering
Corrosive Acne
Flower Week 2 - Burned or Deficient?
It appears we have hermies
One of my Blue Dream phenos smells... bad
Let's talk about salt buildup.
Coco - Unknown Issue
An apparent potassium deficiency

Huh, do you see a pattern here??? Wonder what could be happening he say's ? Maybe I should re-read all of the thoughtful & constructive advice that was offered to me ?

Your arrogance and unwillingness to listen(learn)will be your undoing, you THINK you know the answer before you ask the question...so why ask ?

Example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Of Life View Post
Pay more attention brother. I'm not ignoring anyone's advice. I'm having a dialogue. Just because I'm a novice grower doesn't mean I should adhere religiously to anything that people with more posts than me say. It needs to make sense to me, thus the dialogue. Care to explain why I must multi-feed or else move on to a different medium?
I could fix your problem in 3 sentences, but since I "don't offer anything helpful"...I'll just stop back to watch your plants wither and scream in pain.

PS: There is no "up to date" advice, nothing has changed in growing weeds except mechanical technology and more shiny objects(Nute labels)available to anyone with the internet.

PPS: Please don't offer further advice on growing to new members, it appears you'd find Chia Pets challenging

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Old 12-16-2017, 03:37 AM #7
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Hmm interesting. I seem to really have bothered you lol. Sorry if anything I've said offended you brother. Let me unpack that post real quick.

Quote:
members try to help you and you choose to ignore sound advice...then insult them with your "all knowing wisdom" When DHF, Dans Buds, and others add multiple posts of advice in detail...you choose to find a shortcut to success your way.
Not sure what exactly you're referring to. When people offer advice, I take it. In that thread you're referring to from a year ago, you told me to cut out calmag completely, while Dans and DHF disagreed with you, and told me I'd need it but at a lower dose. I went with their advice and it worked wonders. No shortcuts. No arguments. No arrogance. No arguments with anyone in any of my threads besides you.

Quote:
I've offered help many times, and now you state "I can't seem to find anything too helpful to be honest"
I've taken your advice, as I have with the others. My above post makes that nice and clear. Drainage, pH, cut calmag, multi-feeds, etc. I can't find anything helpful because all the advice you've given is old and is already in practice.

Let's take a look at that list of my threads together yeah?

Quote:
Some Coco Issues - I was using too much calmag. Took advice of you, dans, and others and plants bounced back. My first grow, give me a break.

2.0+ EC runoff and auto watering - Due to the above calmag overdosing, I experienced my first round of salt buildup. Took advice of stoned40, dans, and others and flushed and lowered EC.

Terrified of Broad Mites
Corrosive Acne
- Both of these were just wind burn lol. First grow.. what can I say? I was over-cautious.

Flower Week 2 - Burned or Deficient? - Second bout of salt buildup. Again took advice, flushed, lowered EC, all was well.

It appears we have hermies - Just me not knowing what preflowers look like lol. Still first grow.

One of my Blue Dream phenos smells... bad - I mean cmon. It smelled like gym socks smashed into a hot driveway underneath a dumpster. I was curious if anyone could relate.

Let's talk about salt buildup. - After having salt buildup twice on my first run, I wanted to really nail the issue via discussion and advice.

Coco - Unknown Issue - My third bout of salt buildup. Beginner me kept letting the EC get too high. This was two months after my second bout of buildup.
Looks like pretty reasonable stuff to me, considering that this was all I did wrong in my first three grows. So as a complete beginner, I successfully designed and built a 6k room from scratch, pulled 1.5#+ per light all three harvests so far, and the only issues I've had have been salt buildup and wind burn. That's not bad.

Quote:
you THINK you know the answer before you ask the question...so why ask ?
Sure I've had hypothesis' and guesses coming into threads, but I've always taken the advice of the members here and have always seen improvements. I just take a scientific approach to my work, and part of the scientific method is observing and hypothesizing brother. Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
I'll just stop back to watch your plants wither and scream in pain.
Sounds good. I was going to experiment this run with letting the pots dry out for ~a day before harvest. If they wither real good, I'll take some pics for you. Would still love to see some of your work brother, maybe get some good ideas and take some notes. Let me know if you post any pics, journals, or videos.
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Old 12-16-2017, 05:43 AM #8
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The nature and tone of your response, say's all that I expected.

You have the same problems you had in the past:
1) You DIDN'T pay heed to the sound advice.
2) You have all the answers, and everything is "wonderful now"
3) Everything is a debate for your convenience and continued dialogue.

Instead of "unpacking" your bullshit, you should have spent the time reading the advice...the answer is there, it always has been.

Merry Christmas
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:28 PM #9
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Quote:
1) You DIDN'T pay heed to the sound advice.
You've really gotta slow down and rethink your point of view here. Pretty sure this perception of yours is some sort of defense mechanism wherein upon getting your feelings hurt, you've subconsciously chosen to look outward for an external person or event to place blame on rather than investigating your own unjustified response to whatever harmless event invoked the mistaken offense in the first place.

It's objective that this view of me you have is false. There's dated documentation in the form of my threads and responses. I took advice in every thread I've opened. I've made changes every time I've had an issue. Here's a rundown of all my threads.

Some Coco Issues - Took the advice of cutting way back on calmag.

Terrified of Broad Mites
Corrosive Acne
- Took advice of getting the plants bit further away from fan.

2.0+ EC runoff and auto watering
Flower Week 2 - Burned or Deficient? - Took advice of flushing out the buildup.

It appears we have hermies - Took advice that early budsites just look like that.

One of my Blue Dream phenos smells... bad - Took advice of having patience to see how she develops.

Let's talk about salt buildup. - Took advice on watering to runoff. Epicseeds mentioned a nute calculator that I've been wanting to learn for a while now, but have been too lazy if I'm being honest.

Coco - Unknown Issue - Took advice of lowering EC.


Quote:
2) You have all the answers, and everything is "wonderful now"
If I have all the answers and everything is perfect, why would I be here in the forums looking for answers regarding an imperfection in my garden? You gotta start thinking a bit more before posting brother. We're going in circles.


Quote:
3) Everything is a debate for your convenience and continued dialogue.
Not sure what this means. If it's in reference to me asking questions to those giving me advice and weighing my options out, then only a fool would do otherwise. You think it's a good idea for me to unconditionally worship the first piece of advice that I get in a thread immediately upon reading it? Ok lol, so then

- I start a thread titled "I think we have hermies" with pics.
- I don't actually have hermies.
- Guy #1 says "chop the garden down."
- I immediately walk away from computer and chop garden.
- Guys #2, 3, and 4 say "don't chop, those are normal."
- I come back and read other guys' posts.
- Fml.


Quote:
Instead of "unpacking" your bullshit, you should have spent the time reading the advice...the answer is there, it always has been.
Grammatically confusing. I didn't unpack my bullshit, I unpacked your bullshit.. and it was precisely to better understand your advice. Your over-emotional, cryptic style of communication is unhelpful. Here's (again) what you advise me to do a year ago;

Quote:
Dump the CaMg
Lowered from 300+ ppm to between 0 and 100 ppm.

Quote:
check your PPM meter
Done.

Quote:
rinse new pots with 5ml PG of A+B & 1/2 tspn of Epson PG
Flushed, but didn't use epsom.

Quote:
Mix correctly(A into water wait 15 minutes...B into water wait 15 minutes...then PH to 5.7-5.8 before adding Epson)
Done.

Quote:
calibrate your TDS meter
Done.

Quote:
cal your PH meter
Done.

Quote:
clean both before calibration with the correct cleaning solution.
Done.

Quote:
skip adding any silica to your mix
Done.

Quote:
jump to Maxibloom for the KISS method
No thank you.

Quote:
5.7-5.8 in veg...6.2-6.3 in flower
Done in veg. I have a bigger range in flower. Something I've been experimenting with.

Quote:
Coco like multiple feeds a day
Still don't feed more than twice a day in veg, but I now have an automated manifold system in flower. 4-6 feedings a day.

So which piece of all of this advice deals with the issue I'm seeing currently? Is it not having 6.2-6.3 pH for my flowering girls? pH too low (5.6-6.0) causing lockout of P or K? Or is it not using epsoms, and therefore ending up with a mag deficiency? That's all it could possibly be according to you, since I've taken all of your other advice besides using maxibloom, and I'm positive a good grower can make a grow work with any number of nute lines. It'd be helpful to me if you could respond more precisely next time, rather than writing out a haiku or throwing an illegible tantrum. Something a bit more direct perhaps, like "I don't want to help you", "I don't have the answers", or "Here's what you could try", like how adults problem solve. Sorry of this post is harsher than the others. We all have the same profession/hobby here at this site. It's a loving and scientific field. I come here looking for helpful, scientific, and friendly discussion. When I get a grown ass man coming in here with a year-old grudge that's based on a misunderstanding rudely encrypting his communications to me from a place of emotional pain stemming from the aforementioned misunderstanding (which has somehow gone unhealed over the course of a year) I get impatient. Sort yourself out brother. I've never meant you harm.
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Old 12-16-2017, 05:14 PM #10
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