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Earth Juice PH

H

highbrid1

Member
I know this has been discussed in other threads but Im not seeing the answer to my question.

This is my first run using EJ and I knew before I ever bought a bottle that there are issues with the PH. I know you're supposed to bubble the tea for 24-72 hours and the PH is supposed to rise and stabilize. This is not happening for me. The PH does not change from the low 4s no matter how long I bubble it. Then I get runoff in the mid 7s. Im having serious lockout issues and using a solution around 5 to try to balance things out. The tea does foam as I bubble it, so I know the microbes are doing their thing.

Why is my PH not rising as I bubble the tea? Im using the standard EJ line + 10ml blackstrap per gallon. The temp of the tea as I bubble is low 70s. Do I need to heat the tea to change/stableize the PH? Medium is FF Ocean Forrest. Should I start amending this with peat moss?

Thanks
 
Scrappy4

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
I would not trust your run off ph numbers at all. You are adding fertilizer to a mix that really does not need much if any. (i think) Your getting lockouts from piling on too much with the EJ. EJ does have a low ph, but the soil ph comes right back to normal in a day or two, if you have a good compost or ewc in the mix. I would just feed your plant water and maybe mix up a slurry of ewc and water. Next time feed at maybe 1/4 the suggested rates of EJ, when you have a fully amended soil mix......scrappy
 
H

highbrid1

Member
Scrappy4 said:
I would not trust your run off ph numbers at all. You are adding fertilizer to a mix that really does not need much if any. (i think) Your getting lockouts from piling on too much with the EJ. EJ does have a low ph, but the soil ph comes right back to normal in a day or two, if you have a good compost or ewc in the mix. I would just feed your plant water and maybe mix up a slurry of ewc and water. Next time feed at maybe 1/4 the suggested rates of EJ, when you have a fully amended soil mix......scrappy
Click to expand...

Do you really consider FFOF a fully amended soil mix? It's always seemed a little light on P/K to me.. I still don't understand why my EJ tea doesn't rise in PH when bubbling..
 
Scrappy4

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
highbrid1 said:
Do you really consider FFOF a fully amended soil mix? It's always seemed a little light on P/K to me.. I still don't understand why my EJ tea doesn't rise in PH when bubbling..
Click to expand...

Yes, I consider it to be fully amended and have seen decent water only grows using FFOF. I don't use it myself instead I make a diverse soil from my own wish list. And I have up to 20% of good compost. If you want to make your FFOF a big time mix, get some good ewc to add to it, and feed it properly made compost teas. The microbes from the tea and ewc will make a nice difference.

I don't have a clue why the ph does not rise. I used to run EJ and mine always came up. Maybe it's your meter. Back to my other post though' if you have a good compost in the mix that will adjust the ph. After a couple days the ph of the soil should come right back to where the plants and microbes want it to be.

BTW I used up my old EJ line on my compost pile' it made for real nice compost. And if your frugal read the ingredient list, you can duplicate it pretty easy........scrappy
 
Ground Up

Ground Up

Member
Only the earth juice """sugar peak""" is supposed to be brewed..I have used it for four years....no issues...
 
Ground Up

Ground Up

Member
Only brew the veg and flower,I never brew or ph the""" grand finale"""" ...I have never used the regular ej indoors...only the sugar peak line...hit me if you got questions!!
 
G

Granger2

Active member
Veteran
Hybrid1,
The pH won't come up if you have primarily a fungal tea. Are you inoculating it? Put a big handful of a good compost or better yet Worm Castings in it. This will probably give you a good mix of fungal and bacterial, etc. critters.

I've used EJ for a few runs and have fought with the pH issues. Now what I do is I start with my 8.3 pH tap [carbon filtered to remove chlorine] and add the Grow, Bloom and Meta K. I use Sucanat or Organic Raw Blue Agave, 1 tsp/gal, and Worm Castings. The pH starts out in the 5s, and goes up. Usually, I let the pH start going up to about the high 6s low 7s, then add enough Molasses to drop it into the high 5s again. After 36 to 48 hours [total] it is back into the 7s. It's ready, so then I add the Microblast, and enough Catalyst to bring the pH to ideal, 5.8 to 6.2. Then I feed.

This has helped alot. When you add everything at the beginning the pH drops so low that the beneficials other than fungi have a hard time multiplying. The fungi will keep the pH low. I start with Sucanat or agave because they don't drop the pH like MO does. The Catalyst drops it too. So after the inititial mix, I use MO and Catalyst to keep the pH from going too high, and for the final pH adjustment before feeding. That's why I went back to Meta K instead of Hi-Brix MO. So you need to be aware of the K levels when you're adding MO. I go heavier on the Catalyst.

Also, I read that brewing/bubbling trace mins causes the Iron to fall out of solution, becoming unavailable to the plants. Good luck. -granger
 
H

highbrid1

Member
Granger2 said:
Hybrid1,
The pH won't come up if you have primarily a fungal tea. Are you inoculating it? Put a big handful of a good compost or better yet Worm Castings in it. This will probably give you a good mix of fungal and bacterial, etc. critters.

I've used EJ for a few runs and have fought with the pH issues. Now what I do is I start with my 8.3 pH tap [carbon filtered to remove chlorine] and add the Grow, Bloom and Meta K. I use Sucanat or Organic Raw Blue Agave, 1 tsp/gal, and Worm Castings. The pH starts out in the 5s, and goes up. Usually, I let the pH start going up to about the high 6s low 7s, then add enough Molasses to drop it into the high 5s again. After 36 to 48 hours [total] it is back into the 7s. It's ready, so then I add the Microblast, and enough Catalyst to bring the pH to ideal, 5.8 to 6.2. Then I feed.

This has helped alot. When you add everything at the beginning the pH drops so low that the beneficials other than fungi have a hard time multiplying. The fungi will keep the pH low. I start with Sucanat or agave because they don't drop the pH like MO does. The Catalyst drops it too. So after the inititial mix, I use MO and Catalyst to keep the pH from going too high, and for the final pH adjustment before feeding. That's why I went back to Meta K instead of Hi-Brix MO. So you need to be aware of the K levels when you're adding MO. I go heavier on the Catalyst.

Also, I read that brewing/bubbling trace mins causes the Iron to fall out of solution, becoming unavailable to the plants. Good luck. -granger
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I've been brewing the EJ line with some blackstrap molasses. Is the added molasses not enough to get the PH to rise? How much castings should I add per gallon? You're lucky to have that alkaline tap water. Mine runs low 7s and I'm down to 4.2 after everything's added. I'll try staggering the order I add things as well.
 
G

Granger2

Active member
Veteran
Hibrid1,
The MO is a primary part of the problem. It drops the pH way down, and the low pH is inhospitable to the non-fungal critters that raise the pH. That's why I've started using the Sucanat or Agave in the initial mix. They have little effect on the pH.

Are you using MetaK? If you are, you don't need the MO for K. Another source of sugar that doesn't drop the pH like MO does is all you need to go with the MetaK. If the pH of your first mix is still below 5, I would use less Grow, Bloom, and MetaK in the first mix [but don't lower the sugar], then add the rest later, after the pH rises. Then let the pH brew back up, and add Microblast and other additives, and adjust the pH with Catalyst at feeding. If you are using other additives, I would mix them one by one, checking the pH after adding each to get an idea of their effect on the mix. Again, don't bubble the Microblast.

If your pH allows, then you can use MO, but carefully. The Sucanat has the carbs covered, and if you want more carbs without lowering the pH, you can add more Sucanat or Agave. You may need to do this to bump the pH up high enough so that when you do the final pH ajustment, you can add at least 2 tsp/gal total of Catalyst. You'll want to add that much in certain stages of bloom cycle.

http://www.iherb.com/Sucanat ,or you can get it at "Natural Food" stores. Whole foods has it in bulk cheap. A pound goes a long way.

I don't think the amount of EWC is very critical, but the more you use, the more critters you start with which gives you faster brewing time. I use a big handful in 4 gal. Using more, unless bagged in a paint strainer bag or similar can be a bit cumbersome. Report back with your experiences after playing with it some. Good luck. -granger

Edit:July 8, 2015- I stopped using Agave cuz of its saponin content. It causes uncontrolable foaming. Also, food grade organic MO doesn't drop the pH. Catalyst will drop pH. -granger
 
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H

highbrid1

Member
Hey Granger - thanks for the advice. I'll update the thread with my results. Why exactly does the runoff PH not get into the mid 7s with your method as it does for me? Is it just that the PH of the solution is more stable?
 
Gascanastan

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Veteran
In layman's terms.....
The reason why run off ph in organic soil in inaccurate is because the ph is changing ALL THE TIME...it will NOT be accurate. At best it will give you a rough idea of what the ph is at that moment...you'll just end up fussing around forever with run off checks,adjusting up/down solutions,etc,all the while the plant is wanting to take that fucking ph meter our of your hand and beat you with it...and you are wondering "why is this happening,this doesn't make sense"
 
H

highbrid1

Member
Gascanastan said:
In layman's terms.....
The reason why run off ph in organic soil in inaccurate is because the ph is changing ALL THE TIME...it will NOT be accurate. At best it will give you a rough idea of what the ph is at that moment...you'll just end up fussing around forever with run off checks,adjusting up/down solutions,etc,all the while the plant is wanting to take that fucking ph meter our of your hand and beat you with it...and you are wondering "why is this happening,this doesn't make sense"
Click to expand...

Got it. Ive been using pure blend pro for the last 8 years and runoff of 7.8 would be more telling I guess. I have a batch of lemom larry og that's 5 weeks in and about ready to be scrapped. Everything Im doing is exactly the same except for switching out the PBP for EJ. Very disappointing.

Also, if the PH is so up and down, why is my runoff consistently in the mid 7s?
 
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