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How do Aphria and Canopy Growth operate?

Maple_Flail

Well-known member
well their GTH is the only thing other than that trademarked pheno selection of their that doesn't come in popcorn with massive amounts of shake.

I would say based on experience, it appears like segregated crews working in specific rooms. on specific cuts. some crews are better than others and the good ones get shifted to the bread and butter (both strains mentioned are their two top sellers)

but yes, on average. its all garbage and only advisable in a pinch for whatere stupid reason.. can't imagine a pinch that would require a 3 day shipment from an lp in 2018 but ya never know..

the majority of patients are on compassion pricing programs.. aint nobody got money for a large prescription in that lifestyle. the main reason LPs are still in business are exactly those uneducated folk that don't care and are too lazy to go to a dispensary because you have to leave the house to do so

Honestly, reality will hit the government, their stock will either run out or sit and slowly dwindle.. the craft market will come at the legislation level as to give the rights to non anti-competition market place..


it will take constitutional challenges and many years to get there. Lawyers will make alot of money from this.
 
any hopes of entering the industry as a private operator can pretty much be thrown out the window. (atleast in Canada) in Canada they are setting it up so that you need individual permits for everything you do you have no control of sale or the method of growing or where the weed goes when its done or who buys it. if you run a micro grow you will grow your weed and harvest it. that's it. its gone. the government then further decides where it goes or where its sold and how much its worth. also, there is strict health Canada guidelines for cultivating under the acmpr guidelines. youd be selling your soul to the devil working for these people. youd become their slave and would always have to conform to 100% to government procedure no matter wether you know better or not. they aren't interested in sharing the pie. they are gonna make it as hard as financially possible to stand on your own to feet. it will be so disproportionately expensive to operate vs. returns that people will soon not be able to pay for the permits, equipment and space, nutes etc. run their grow for a year and get paid a solid 500 a pund cause that's plain and simple, all the government will give you for it and its illegal to sell through any other avenue. so you have no choice but to sell and take a loss. and this will happen until you are forced out of the industry from going bankrupt paying the disproportionately high costs of operation. nake no mistake. they do not want, for a second, anyone other than a government entity to control the weed. It really just scares me. all these people here have such big plans for Canadian legal. but I really don't know if it can happen. just like the states the prices will plummet with oversupply and no ones weed will be worth shit. we will have grows and farms shutting down left right and center just like in cali and Oregon. the govenmnt wants a monopoly. I know this whole post might seem like a bunch of fear mongering so I very much invite you to take it with a grain of salt. I for one am very worried. theres really no room to nter the industry privately, they just create that illusion.
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/derek-pedro-2598a931

WeedMD master grower. ^

https://www.weedmd.com/meet-weedmd-team-nick-trueman-cultivation-manager/

Weedmd Cultivation manager, Previously Bedrocan headgrower prior to canopy corp acquisition.

Pedros got some clout, but he ain't international AFAIK, not tried any of his gear so can't comment.

You can get names if your enough of a knowledgeable pain in the ass... how do you think I was told the genetics of one of their trademarked(well the name is) pheno selection?

Bottom line. These guys aren't pros.. they haven't been underground (cept maybe pedro), and had to deal with that life. the staff supporting them also are not pros. They don't know what to hide and what to share.

not to aspire to be these guys.. just saying names are there.

also, weedmd Ghost train haze is pretty decent. it's one of the only things i've seen close to dispensary quality.. however stills pales in comparison to what someone like me or you guys could likely do with that type of plant.

Aurora hires from the community and with a smile the ceo says "hes grown for a suspiciously long time"


I have a friend who gets her weed from tilray, I haven't been able to change her mind so theres that. I guess my stuff sucks more than lp's.
 

Maple_Flail

Well-known member
any hopes of entering the industry as a private operator can pretty much be thrown out the window. (atleast in Canada) in Canada they are setting it up so that you need individual permits for everything you do you have no control of sale or the method of growing or where the weed goes when its done or who buys it. if you run a micro grow you will grow your weed and harvest it. that's it. its gone. the government then further decides where it goes or where its sold and how much its worth. also, there is strict health Canada guidelines for cultivating under the acmpr guidelines. youd be selling your soul to the devil working for these people. youd become their slave and would always have to conform to 100% to government procedure no matter wether you know better or not. they aren't interested in sharing the pie. they are gonna make it as hard as financially possible to stand on your own to feet. it will be so disproportionately expensive to operate vs. returns that people will soon not be able to pay for the permits, equipment and space, nutes etc. run their grow for a year and get paid a solid 500 a pund cause that's plain and simple, all the government will give you for it and its illegal to sell through any other avenue. so you have no choice but to sell and take a loss. and this will happen until you are forced out of the industry from going bankrupt paying the disproportionately high costs of operation. nake no mistake. they do not want, for a second, anyone other than a government entity to control the weed. It really just scares me. all these people here have such big plans for Canadian legal. but I really don't know if it can happen. just like the states the prices will plummet with oversupply and no ones weed will be worth shit. we will have grows and farms shutting down left right and center just like in cali and Oregon. the govenmnt wants a monopoly. I know this whole post might seem like a bunch of fear mongering so I very much invite you to take it with a grain of salt. I for one am very worried. theres really no room to nter the industry privately, they just create that illusion.

Well.. with careful work.. the little guy isn't quite cut out.. just extremely limited.

the way the acmpr is written, Patients can provide for patients.

Take that for what you will. there will be a limit to your size and spread. But with Lp's basically for all intents and purposes jumping medical ship for the bigger rec fish, there is room for Craft grow in med right now. rec legalization isn't going to stop that, its going to create a bigger gap for opportunity

Any exceptions that the government will get it right inside of 10 years is rather delusional. until they get it right there will be space to move and work. Based on the history of court rulings specifically in supreme court, I have faith that our rights and wishes will eventually be put into law.

if you want to do it on the books and you've found a way to do it is a larger way.. there are many permits, most of them fairly easy as long as you adequately prepared for it, going in near broke is idiotic.

the hardest ones to get are:extracts(edible oils) dealership(testing and research export/import) and Rec export(self explanatory). everything else is getting easier and easier (respectively) to get.

ay you will have to worry about provincial BS but as always federal trumps provincial. The framework is there, and the potential return can be worth it. It just about weather you have the moral fiber to get there.

The BIG problem with legalization and people trying to get into the business.. The typical small business model of not making a profit for a few year.. flat out WILL NOT WORK. you will get left behind the industry moves to fast for that. This only work for the big players that have stocks and other investors to be able to back thing while getting to a point of profitability. IIRC even WEEDMD isn't in the black yet. they expect at current medical rate to reach profitability in fiscal 2019, if not early fiscal 2020
 

bigbadbiddy

Active member
@maple
I believe Aphria and Canopy have pledged around 600 million in Euro but that number is increasing and other entities have started pledging money and the talk was close to a billion total until a month or so ago. They are currently talking about exceeding 1 billion.


Regarding the organic LPs etc. etc.:
I have come to realize that this usually is not organic in the sense I and many others would understand that. They usually still don't replace all their pesticide options with neem, rosemary oil and the like or pay for ladybugs and the like to counter pests.
They still use their synthetic pesticides etc. and just switch nutes or find any way they can to label it organic.

It was mentioned that with "quality" these entities usually mean "consistency" and I would wholeheartedly agree.
I doubt they could produce the way I plan to, even if they wanted to and saw that niche as worth their time, effort and capital.

A true, organic bud is not infinitely scalable without a hitch. It can be done but even when it is done properly, one thing will always be a tradeoff for these clear burning, terpene rich and true to the plant buds: Consistency.

I very much doubt you can produce truly organic bud on a large scale with the same consistency that allows for these insanely low prices per gram in the end and for the guaranteed harvest amounts that these big entities need to fulfill their contractual obligations to outlets, governments etc.


That's why I want to go small, very small.

I plan to invest less than a hundred grand and work with 2 greenhouses and a small indoor facility (mainly for staging, research, male selection, breeding and the like).
And as maple suggested, get a small movement going. A movement with patriotism at its heart and the goal to make sure Greece does not become the Bangladesh of Cannabis (simply the place where huge bulk can be produced the cheapest to be sold in more profitable markets) but at least gets a chance to reach its potential as one of the places on earth that produces among the best cannabis one can produce.

Then see how things unfold, how much traction such a movement gets, where the government stands on everything and how far out the rec market is and see if and how I want to scale up, service other markets around the globe etc. .

We will see if I simply get swallowed up or can carve out a healthy niche for myself.

Another advantage I see for myself is that I will be satisfied if I can support my family and myself and maybe own a house and 2 cars. While the big dogs will never have enough, no matter how much they make, unless they make everything there is to be made.

And while that line of thinking reigns supreme in many western societies/markets, the US chief among them, it does not work out that way in Greece.
I am becoming more and more confident that Aphria and Canopy will learn this sooner than later...


As a tangent and illustration, may I share with you the story of Green Cola?
So Coca Cola is pretty big time, right? They do the whole lobbying thing, influencing governments, having laws written the way that most benefits themselves and most stifles their competition, regularly and very efficiently.
Well the Coca Cola used to have their main production and distribution facilities for the entire balkan area in Greece.
But the Greeks stole from them, quite a lot over quite some time. Just the classic thing where on paper you sell a crate but in fact you sold a whole truck load, you know the drill.
Coca Cola got wind of it and threatened Greece to pull their headquarters and move it elsewhere in the balkans. Bulgaria or whatever.
Unless that whole shabang is figured out, heads roll and compensations are made.
You can imagine the Greek's answer: No money old Coca Colarino, no payerino, sorry. Do what you must.

So Coca Cola pulled their business out of Greece and moved it elsewhere. And to recuperate some of the losses and dish out some punishment to Greece, they started to say "So if you still want our products, you now have to pay more friendos, nonono of course no punishment, no, we aren't mad or anything, just production costs are higher now, shipping costs etc., you understand, right?"

And the Greeks did understand.
But what Coca Cola didn't understand was that the Greeks still had all the production facilities in their country. They still had the recipes etc. etc.
And they are not as concerned with the whole licensing and intellectual property stuff as other countries.

Know what they did?
They simply reopened the factories, founded a new company called "Green Cola" which was a chinese level knockoff of Coca Cola, all down to the design on the bottles and cans. Just Green and ever so slightly different so it wouldn't be too blatant.

Coca Cola went to court, with Europe involved as well and there was a phase where Green Cola was not the only knockoff Coca Cola on the market, there were several ones.
But Greek Cola had another thing going for it: It used Stevia instead of cheaper artificial sweeteners, like Coca Cola does. And Greeks were quite fond of both the taste and the medical implications of using Stevia.

Green Cola began outselling regular Cola in places.

Now I don't know the inns and outs of the legal proceedings but most knockoff Coca Colas did disappear from the market and they managed to make Green Cola disappear from many bars, restaurants, cafes and the like. But it is still sold in supermarkets around the country and still going strong.


What I want to illustrate with this is that these big corporate entities might think they have it all figured out and that they can rule with an iron fist but Greece is a country that surprises them time and again.
Mind you this is not all positive, this obviously plays part in how Greece landed in the economic crisis they currently find themselves in.

But it does show that Greece, maybe moreso than most other western countries, sympathizes with the little man and has afforded the little guy opportunities to flip off the big corporate giants time and time again.

And I believe this will be another one of those instances and if I stay small, humble and willing to not only work for my own pocket but for the benefit of the country as a whole, I believe there is a win-win situation here for all of Greece to profit and me alongside them.

I might not be able to land at several villas, sports cars and yachts like hollywood and conservative business thinking dictates I should strive to. But that is not what I want in life.

I believe this is more than an economic opportunity for me and Greece as a country. I believe this is an opportunity to make out of cannabis what I have come to believe we as a community stand for: A wonderful plant with infinite uses and possibilities that can offer so much more to the world than just cheaper pain medication and a cheap high without the risk of physical addiction.

My vision is that in 10-20 years, Greece will be known as a Mekka for the cannabis lifestyle in its purest and most innocent form.
Whether I am at the core of this or just along for the ride is not even important to me. I just don't want things to go the same way there as they did in the US and Canada and to support myself and my family.

I believe those are attainable goals.
 

Gmack

Member
I'm not sure I understand why they want to use Greese as a production center. Is it just due to climate? Don't take this wrong but greese is not seen as a productive member of the eu. Lots of corruption and just a difficult place to get anything done. Is electric prices lower then other countries in the eu? What about labor cost? Unless the cost to produce there is significantly lower then here or in other eu countries I dot see the draw.
 

Gmack

Member
He's not in Canada! He's in greese. Canadian lp's are planning on setting up shop in greese to supply the European medical market. What's happening in Canada has nothing to do with his plans. Commercial real estate prices in Alberta have no bearing on the country of greese.
 

VagPuncher

Balls Deep!!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I’m OPS at an LP. I won’t say which one. Grower. Production manager. Consulting.

One of us dirtbags from IC had to see what it was all about.
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
I’m OPS at an LP. I won’t say which one. Grower. Production manager. Consulting.

One of us dirtbags from IC had to see what it was all about.


SELL OUT!!


haha jk, it is what it is. Even if no one showed them how to grow, they would have been able to figure it out eventually. Just would have been nice to see them struggle the way us novice growers struggle to learn. Ive been struggling for 2 years. Looks like the suits are beating me to it. Thanks VAG punch ;)
 

bigbadbiddy

Active member
I'm not sure I understand why they want to use Greese as a production center. Is it just due to climate? Don't take this wrong but greese is not seen as a productive member of the eu. Lots of corruption and just a difficult place to get anything done. Is electric prices lower then other countries in the eu? What about labor cost? Unless the cost to produce there is significantly lower then here or in other eu countries I dot see the draw.


You are quite right in many respects Gmack.


The way I understand it the main selling points for Greece are its climate and fertile lands (the climate coming free and the fertile lands being very cheap at the moment as there is much pressure to sell off land as people need funds and have few means to attain them outside of selling properties and the like, for decades many properties have been in limbo as well, so many unfinished buildings where people started without having enough funds to finish, ran out and then just left things as is for decades. A very Greek thing to do that was also going on a lot before the crisis hit them hard. Many of them are childlike dreamers who just don't plan ahead very much, very different thinking).
Next up is the fact that more or less an entire nation of people is looking for work that pays their bills. There is a huge workforce that is at least partially quite skilled that is trying to find work.
A company can pick and choose from a huge pool of applicants and all will work for very affordable prices.


And even better for companies like the big Canadians is the fact that the secondary line of employees, the untrained and unskilled workers, is even more available and ready. So once you trained them, you can cut costs even more by simply hiring refugees and the like who will work for pennies on the dollar.
Very enticing for such big corporate conglomerates.




But like I said, first and foremost, the climate and the fertile land should result not only in "better" quality of buds, no matter what you do but also in more plentiful harvests, no matter what you do. The soil and the climate is just that good there. The Canadians did a study and compared it to California in terms of being optimal for Cannabis.


I also doubt you need very much in terms of artificial lighting for the Greenhouses you produce in. From what I could gather, the Canadians still plan to use their Gavitas but I believe that will be a waste of money. In Greece it will be more necessary to use opaque Greenhouses that block out some of the sun so the plants don't wilt from overexposure and heat. I doubt added artificial lighting will add anything to that. So you can probably safe on that if you ask me. More important will be air conditioning or some other form of cooling down the greenhouses in the peak summer months as temperatures and sun hours will be constantly at the very peak of what our plant can take.


And temps stay stable. You can really expect that the sun starts to dominate and temperatures go up as soon as february/march and then allthroughout the year up until october and sometimes even november.


I can definitely see the reasons for wanting to make it a hub of production for all of Europe. But I can also definitely see the drawbacks, corruption etc. etc.


I know first hand that the Greeks just make you crazy and twist you until your head is spinning. Things move ever so slowly, deadlines don't mean anything it's not about what is legal but about who you know etc. etc. etc.


You need to be flexible and open for unconventional routes if you want to do business in Greece, just like the Greeks themselves.


Conventional business wisdom will only get you so far and might have you ending up flat on your belly if you don't adjust and adapt.
 

Maple_Flail

Well-known member
land is cheaper in greece labour is likely also cheaper. farming vs horticultural grads

the millions of euro is still kinda cheaper then buying up an established greenhouse and all the legal crap that comes with it.

tweed and aphrira IIRC have import licenses. its going to rec, won't be med.
 

cryptop

Active member
You are quite right in many respects Gmack.


The way I understand it the main selling points for Greece are its climate and fertile lands (the climate coming free and the fertile lands being very cheap at the moment as there is much pressure to sell off land as people need funds and have few means to attain them outside of selling properties and the like, for decades many properties have been in limbo as well, so many unfinished buildings where people started without having enough funds to finish, ran out and then just left things as is for decades. A very Greek thing to do that was also going on a lot before the crisis hit them hard. Many of them are childlike dreamers who just don't plan ahead very much, very different thinking).
Next up is the fact that more or less an entire nation of people is looking for work that pays their bills. There is a huge workforce that is at least partially quite skilled that is trying to find work.
A company can pick and choose from a huge pool of applicants and all will work for very affordable prices.


And even better for companies like the big Canadians is the fact that the secondary line of employees, the untrained and unskilled workers, is even more available and ready. So once you trained them, you can cut costs even more by simply hiring refugees and the like who will work for pennies on the dollar.
Very enticing for such big corporate conglomerates.




But like I said, first and foremost, the climate and the fertile land should result not only in "better" quality of buds, no matter what you do but also in more plentiful harvests, no matter what you do. The soil and the climate is just that good there. The Canadians did a study and compared it to California in terms of being optimal for Cannabis.


I also doubt you need very much in terms of artificial lighting for the Greenhouses you produce in. From what I could gather, the Canadians still plan to use their Gavitas but I believe that will be a waste of money. In Greece it will be more necessary to use opaque Greenhouses that block out some of the sun so the plants don't wilt from overexposure and heat. I doubt added artificial lighting will add anything to that. So you can probably safe on that if you ask me. More important will be air conditioning or some other form of cooling down the greenhouses in the peak summer months as temperatures and sun hours will be constantly at the very peak of what our plant can take.


And temps stay stable. You can really expect that the sun starts to dominate and temperatures go up as soon as february/march and then allthroughout the year up until october and sometimes even november.


I can definitely see the reasons for wanting to make it a hub of production for all of Europe. But I can also definitely see the drawbacks, corruption etc. etc.


I know first hand that the Greeks just make you crazy and twist you until your head is spinning. Things move ever so slowly, deadlines don't mean anything it's not about what is legal but about who you know etc. etc. etc.


You need to be flexible and open for unconventional routes if you want to do business in Greece, just like the Greeks themselves.


Conventional business wisdom will only get you so far and might have you ending up flat on your belly if you don't adjust and adapt.

The green cola story you detailed was especially interesting... if Greeks will steal sugar water produced by foreign companies, cannabis will only be worse
 

TychoMonolyth

Boreal Curing
Most big ones got nailed hard with near crippling recalls because of contamination. With growing competition, expect that to continue.
 
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