Met 52- Is this the final product???!!!

sammyz2646 · Sep 15, 2013

I have been battling those dreaded root aphids for months and months now. Tried many products, always being mindful for my health, safety and well being. As an indoor grower, staying away from harmful products is a TOP PRIORITY for me and my family and friends.

After too many hours reading all the banter about this product and that product, these are the things I have been using so far with limited success at best:

1-Botaniguard- Seems to be helping but needs more time to get ahead of the bugs, since I was SERIOUSLY infested.
2-Nuke Em'- A fungicide made with nothing more than what is in bread. Nice product for a knockdown but not a failsafe cure. I like that it is food grade and 100% non-toxic, just be sure to glove up.
3- Tried nematodes but once again, more useful as a preventative or to be used upon early detection. Needing to bang em back with the Nuke em kills the beneficials. A necessary evil, unfortunately

And another frightening note on these bastards- I mixed up a room spray with intent on perimeter knockdown only. Not in the plant. 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide mixed with water 50/50 ratio and these superbugs just cruise right though it! Unreal. Bleach seems to not hurt them either.

SO- I just ordered some Met 52. The 22lb bag for almost $600 with shipping. Crazy expensive but a hopeful and safer option. Since there is limited discussion to this point on this product, I intend to post my results here. Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated assuming we don't talk about any IMID or any other toxic harmful and scary substance than should never be used in and around your pets and family or be in your final product. Much thanks

sammyz2646 · Sep 15, 2013

I guess i should mention that this is a perpetual grow, which is by far the most difficult to rid yourself of these super destructive, and unbelievably resilient little bugs. I am using rock wool, which is also apparently the most difficult to inoculate and treat these pests. Started with 1.56 gallon plastic pots(hate them), and am graduating up to the geo-pots(airpots).
I intend to switch mediums for the 1st time in 20+ years with great success using R/W.
going to try an organic soilless media, (looks like dirt, but isn't). Planning to innoculate all soils early with both the Met 52 and the Botaniguard 22WP. Obviously the fungicide I am using cannot be used after applying the fungi.
I top off the plant with some course perilite and follow that with a top dressing of this new stuff called Gnatnix. It is made from recycled glass and is broken down to a safe and non- dusty fine sand that cuts and NIX (lol) at least the winged flyers as they try and escape when watering. I will say after using the gnat nix, I have seen almost no flyers, but I have noticed lots of crawling females are getting through. All that said I am really hoping that early treatments and follow up treatments using MET 52 will be my knight in shining armor.

I am aware that my only other option is to stop the veg room, empty it, flower everything out and start over. Hoping to god it doesn't come to that but I am prepared.
I bought some riptide but am only using that in case of dire emergency and would probably only use it in the room, not on the plants just for cleaning purposes. Even then, it scares me to spray that crap around indoors, even with a mask and protective gear

gaiusmarius · Sep 15, 2013

good luck, let us know how it goes.

Phillthy · Sep 15, 2013

met 52 is a great preventative. pyganic 1.4 at 40ml per gallon nukes them.

EllieGrows · Sep 15, 2013

I found that shutting down the flower room was the only option. Having plants in both flower and veg made it impossible to deal with these things. I used two dunks (as opposed to drench) of organic pyrethins as a knock down 5 days apart, then two dunks of mycotrol-o 5 days apart and ive been using ogbiowar foliar pack at high concentrations every 5 days since then as a heavy heavy heavy root drench. Make sure while you are doing this you clean like crazy, they will run from the pyrethins out of the pot. Make sure you treat all plants at once. Good luck, took me about a month to get back on track.

sammyz2646 · Sep 15, 2013

Thanks for your input, as you folks who have been through this battle, it should not be taken lightly. I am not familiar with the OG Biowar but am interested in trying them also, Thanks. I guess one thing that is tough to get right is the delicate dance that needs to happen between KILL substances and BENEFICIAL substances. My problem is that after treating with a Kill substance, in this case the Nuke Em', then fungi and beneficials are applied, 2 to 3 days later the microherd under the dome seems to persist back to the point of needing another knockdown with a fungicide. Is there a method or trick here to get ahead her?! I have heard that it takes 3 times every 3 days to get em' , but should I avoid the Met 52 and Botaniguard until I am damn sure they wont need another beatdown with a substance that will harm my expensive beneficials?

Hash Zeppelin · Sep 15, 2013

I have heard of people moving their entire location because of root aphids. Good luck to you.

also I suggest spray around the outside of your house too. You maybe chasing them out with poison and then they come back in the house later.

Good luck to ya

sammyz2646 · Sep 15, 2013

There is a goal here. I am hoping to attain a situation where it (in theory) wouldn't even matter if there were a few stray aphids here and there that made their way in past all the intakes, etc. Assuming you know the battle coming before you get to the battlefield. Meaning that a full scale preparation combined with a healthy root mass should be unavailable to that stray aphid even if it wanted to try and ENTER your grow area. Inoculated early as a clone with Met 52 and Botaniguard, wouldn't it be almost impossible for a re-infestation? Wouldn't a well developed fungal environment just waiting to attack the new visitor, keep that door shut? I don't really know.
I have read many threads here which have been very helpful, (after self filtering), and am aware that SOME discussions have been covered, however this epidemic is newer and more powerful than many people realize. The current discussions seem to be fairly limited in results and safety isn't nearly as important as it should be, IMO. I took in some exciting new strains in unaware of the full scope of risks involved. The days of the standard old school inoculations are changing, and I need as much help in these areas as anyone else. I am a seasoned grower but I am also learning everyday and will continue listening to people who have already made the mistakes I hope to avoid.

Granger2 · Sep 16, 2013

Sammy,
The 22 lb [10 kilo] bag? How much medium are you going to treat? It is dated and has a limited shelf life.

The way to use Met52 is to amend the soil with it. I don't think topdressing will work very well. I did this about 3 months ago with new coco, and have had no problem with RA's since [so far]. Met says it will give at least 1 year of control.

I soaked all my plants with container and medium below water line for 30 minutes in Cedarcide PCO Choice. While they were soaking I sprayed the room heavily with Cedarcide. This kills all stages incl eggs. The main way RA's multiply is by live birth of already pregnant females. It's essential to immediately follow the soak with a plain water flush or the Cedarcide will cause root damage.

I followed the flush right away with a light transition feed with a root stimulator. Then I transplanted into new coco with Met52. Since I killed at least the vast majority of RA's with the Cedarcide, I'm hoping the Met will do the job on any new invaders.

I plan to use nematodes in early bloom. I will also use OGBiowar tea and Neem Cake teas. Between crops, I'll hit everything with Cedarcide.

So far, so good [fingers crossed tightly]. Good luck. -granger
NOTE: I now [4-10-14] use 2-3 tsp/gal of Cedarcide PCO Choice. Higher concentrations cause root damage. Best to try on expendable plants, flush, wait 7-10 days to see if they pass. Very effective repellant too. Now using OGBioWar foliar and root @4 tsp/gal, every other week. Still with 2 apps of Heterorhabditus and S. carpocapsae mixed during bloom. -granger

Update: 3-27-16- I use only OGBioWar now. Haven't seen a RA in at least 1 1/2 years. -granger

ozzieAI · Sep 16, 2013

i have been successful eradicating RA from my grow using pure neem oil as a soil drench (see details in link below) and neem cake to stop them from returning.

Good luck

sammyz2646 · Sep 16, 2013

Granger2 said:
Sammy,
The 22 lb [10 kilo] bag? How much medium are you going to treat? It is dated and has a limited shelf life.

The way to use Met52 is to amend the soil with it. I don't think topdressing will work very well. I did this about 3 months ago with new coco, and have had no problem with RA's since [so far]. Met says it will give at least 1 year of control.

I soaked all my plants with container and medium below water line for 30 minutes in Cedarcide PCO Choice. While they were soaking I sprayed the room heavily with Cedarcide. This kills all stages incl eggs. The main way RA's multiply is by live birth of already pregnant females. It's essential to immediately follow the soak with a plain water flush or the Cedarcide will cause root damage.

I followed the flush right away with a light transition feed with a root stimulator. Then I transplanted into new coco with Met52. Since I killed at least the vast majority of RA's with the Cedarcide, I'm hoping the Met will do the job on any new invaders.

I plan to use nematodes in early bloom. I will also use OGBiowar tea and Neem Cake teas. Between crops, I'll hit everything with Cedarcide.

So far, so good [fingers crossed tightly]. Good luck. -granger

Granger, I have been reading your post and have found them somewhat helpful, thanks to you and everyone else's input here. :tiphat:

I did forget to mention that I tried Go Gnats Cedar oil as an additive to normal feeding which DID reduce the population but as with many products, I realized very soon that this wasn't a cure, just a knockdown. I will try doing a root dunk with it as instructed. Dont know if I need the PCO Cedarcide specifically. I learned the hard way to always check the PH before dunking or drenching (top pour). Seems like the Nuke Em' I was using drops the PH to stupid low levels. Fortunately I always do a flush after ANY root dunk or root drench followed by a light feeding leaving the plant wet, but on good terms.

About the Met, yes, I did order the 10 kilo bag. Hopefully it will last but there are approximately 40 - 2 gallon pots needing immediate treatment and a constant ongoing perpetual grow that I am HOPING to continue, assisted by making sure very new clone is planted with the proper dose of MET 52 and Botaniguard. I have heard mixed reviews about the Botaniguard but since I bought two of them I may as well include them in the new babies.
I will try mixing up the Go Gnats in my sprayer. That would be fantastic if the cedar oil works, never used it for that. The regular strength of Nuke Em does NOT kill them even when I spray the nymphs. Unless of course they end up swimming in it.
I intend to also try the OG Biowar with everyone's input, Thank you

I tried ordering Heterorhabditis Bacteriophora to apply. Once again just trying to mix up this pasty glob of bugs that is a bitch to break apart and I learned that it must be applied at EXACTLY the right time and under almost perfect conditions. I was too infested at the time I introduced them and HAD to bang back the microherd to keep the bugs at bay, killing all the beneficials. I am starting to really really get that EARLY treatment and prevention is the only way to achieve victory here.

sammyz2646 · Sep 16, 2013

ozzieAI said:
i have been successful eradicating RA from my grow using pure neem oil as a soil drench (see details in link below) and neem cake to stop them from returning.

Good luck

Ozzie, I have heard that neem oil is effective, but can coat my roots slowly, with any oil product , therefore preventing it from proper nutrient uptake, (eventually) and will take quite a health toll if multiple applications are needed. Don't know if the Cedar oil will do the same thing. Thanks for your input my friend

I am now better educated Ozzie after more reading, Thanks much sir

Granger2 · Sep 17, 2013

http://www.cedarcide.com/product/pest-control-operators-choice/
Sammy,
I had no luck whatsoever with Nukem for RA's. Followed instructions exactly. Seemed to have NO effect after 2 treatments.

Cedarcide is USDA certified organic, and the emulsifying agent makes all the difference. One qt, makes 64 gallons of drench. Kills all stages. I'm hoping that killing them with Cedarcide and planting in Met 52 amended coco will do the job. Don't know if it will, but after 3 months with no other measures taken, I've had no symptoms. I do frequent root exams, and haven't seen any, nor anything but snow white roots.

Get your nematodes from Nature's Control or Buglogical. They're viable because of the packaging they ship in. Easy to work with [dissolves easy]. Use the Heterorhabditis and pair it with the Steinerema. Good luck. -granger
NOTE: I now [4-10-14] use 2-3 tsp/gal of Cedarcide PCO Choice. Higher concentrations cause root damage. Best to try on expendable plants, flush, wait 7-10 days to see if they pass. Very effective repellant too. Now using OGBioWar foliar and root @4 tsp/gal, every other week. Still with 2 apps of Heterorhabditus and S. carpocapsae mixed during bloom. -granger

sammyz2646 · Sep 18, 2013

Thanks for your tips Granger. Experience is the best teacher.

OK so I got the Met 52 in the mail today and am semi-excited. I say SEMI because I have been reading more about people's results after using Met. Some are happy and some are still struggling. I assume that there are 3 potential reasons for people having issues. This is not an educated theory, just my best guess, anyone who really knows please help
1- Perhaps these aphids are either different species or maybe different kinds in different areas, seems like they vary greatly in color size and shape from all the pics I have seen. even with 7 different life cycles I still se some visible differences.
2- Perhaps people are not sure how to use Met 52 without damaging the fungus or are making a simple easy mistake that can be remedied?
3- I have read that these pests can NOT develop an immunity to this product , but what if?!

I just wonder why this works for some and does NOT help much for others

Granger, I intend to try and use your PCO Choice cedarcide as it did work well for you.
I see that it is @ 80% cedar oil, wow. The Go Gnats I have here is only @ 33%. I mixed up the 2.6 fl oz. per gallon as directed and they fricken' crawled right through it! So when area spraying the room, if I only grazed them with the spray, NO EFFECT. Once again if swimming in it, they died, but GEEZ!!! I now use double the recommended amount @ 5.2 fl oz per gallon. Hoping that the PCO works better. Seems like my bugs here are unbelievably resilient.

sammyz2646 · Sep 18, 2013

So today is application day on all existing plants and of course every newbie from this point on. I will be adding approx 6 grams per gallon to the infected teens and adults in hope this may help a bit throughout their aging process

My questions are important because I really don't want to hurt this investment.

What pest knockdown product CAN be used in conjuction w/ the Met as a knockdown that WONT hurt this fungus as they are already very well established in the older plants? Up to this point it has been a daily battle with a fungicide to keep them at bay, so to speak. This HAS to be eliminated as it will kill my investment.

ANY IDEAS????

Does the Cedar Oil harm the MET 52????

I am not very sure how to achieve my goals her, especially with already infested plants :dunno:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/images/smilies/dunno.gif

Granger2 · Sep 18, 2013

Sammy,
The emulsifying agent in Cedarcide makes all the difference. I use 2-3 tsp/gal RO pH'd to 6. I also dunked foliage.

There are lots of possibilities for why Met 52 doesn't work for some- old product, improperly stored product, not incorporating it into soil, not using enough, other chems in medium, etc. If you've been using fungicides in the medium, you'll need to flush that out thoroughly. Also spray the whole room with Cedarcide. at the same time.

I think it's very important to kill as many of the Root mofo Aphids as possible, then transplant into Met52 amended medium. I would double the recommended rate of the Met added to medium. You've got plenty. Keep us updated on your experiences. Good luck. -granger
NOTE: I now [4-10-14] use 2-3 tsp/gal of Cedarcide PCO Choice. Higher concentrations cause root damage. Best to try on expendable plants, flush, wait 7-10 days to see if they pass. Very effective repellant too. Now using OGBioWar foliar and root @4 tsp/gal, every other week. Still with 2 apps of Heterorhabditus and S. carpocapsae mixed during bloom. -granger

watts · Sep 18, 2013

Philthy named a knock down pest product... pyganic 1.4

sammyz2646 · Sep 18, 2013

watts said:
Philthy named a knock down pest product... pyganic 1.4

So is it ok to use the pyganic AFTER the Met is incorporated? Since I have a feeling that they will be back before the Met really takes hold in the existing adult plants. Thanks

puff adder · Sep 18, 2013

I used MET52 and it worked on one run, but then didn't work on another. I suspect I didn't use enough the second time though, it IS expensive.

I have battled RA's for many years now. What has worked for me it Imidicloprid. Started out with Bayer tree and shrub, but then they changed the formula so I went to Annual brand tree and shrub (1.47% Imid) and finally i bought the powdered Merit 75 and said goodbye to RA's.

A good follow-up after the dose of Imid is a root drench with Azamax, and also Pyganic or Evergreen root drench.

Almost every time I fought RA's, I had very successful runs, but still at the end, just before harvest, I found evidence of them once again.

I've found they are nearly impossible to completely get rid of, but you can control them and still grow with success and good yields using Imid and other pesticides.

My product was tested clean as well.

wingdings · Sep 18, 2013

Noone has mentioned Orthene and Riptide (at 5ml/gallon each) using root dunks? This is the answer. Met52 is hit or miss and $$$. Never tried pyganic because I didn't have to. Never seen a sign of those bastards since, its been years. About half a year I brought in a clone with RAs again and threw it out once I found out. I treated everything else and didnt get a RA outbreak at all.

Met 52- Is this the final product???!!!

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