hush's QWISO journal

^ Funny you should mention that, because I just decided last night that I am going to order some Everclear so that I can finally start experimenting with ethanol. I really am curious to see how much of an effect winterizing my QWISO with ethanol will have. But I would also like to finally experiment with green dragon tinctures and stuff. I just recently did a glycerin tincture, but it's too weak for my liking. I'll end up using it in baked goods or something.

I might also have to purchase some hexane at some point. I am comfortable working with solvents, but I choose not to mess with butane because it's compressed. I believe that the true danger inherent in BHO production is not only the flammability of the solvent, but the fact that it is compressed gas instead of fluid.

FYI: I applied for a state license to buy pure ethanol for scientific experiment purposes. Application fee was $5. After that I was able to able to buy pure ethanol from state liquor stores. Was about $13/liter, if I remember correctly.

Great thread Hush . Just got into making BHO for Hard candy edibles , going to try Qwiso soon . Thanks for the advice on the Vape pen I'm leaning toward grabbing one . Going to pick up a Rig today for starters . Will be lurking around learning what I can and thanks again .

First and second attempt at it .

Tried to give ya some more rep on that beautiful gold Shatter Hush, but alas...

” I must Spread some Rep Around”

Are you using 91%?... 99 would eliminate the need to purge that milky residue away which is simply water.

Seems like you got your tech on lock though, no need to fix what's not broken.

Cheers mate!!

Thanks man. Yes, I'm using 91%. I always did figure that the milky residue that appears at the end of the evaporation is the water. And, I think the very thin "clear coat" that makes the plate looks shiny after everything is all evaporated away is all the trace water soluble gunk. I'm guessing though.

Yeah, I need to just start ordering 99% iso. In fact, we keep it on hand at the place where I work, because it is a fantastic electronics cleaner, for contact points and electrodes. So maybe I can convince my boss to order some extra for me, lol. Yeah, I just need to order a bunch of it and keep it on hand. It's fairly cheap, and it obviously does a good job for oil if I can get what I get using the 91% stuff. So 99% will only be that much better.

If ethanol wasn't so ridiculously expensive because of the taxes, I would probably keep a bunch of that stuff on hand too, because of how useful it is as a cleaning solvent.

I should add that my wax is probably heavily decarboxylated, because it always seems to get darker and more taffy-like after the final purge. Probably because of the stove top not being the best device to use for the purge.

The waxes I make always eventually melt down in their containers at room temperature. Here's the same container I posted above, but a few days later:



It has melted down to a very hard, taffy-like consistency. It looks cool with that marbled look, though.

hush said:

^ Funny you should mention that, because I just decided last night that I am going to order some Everclear so that I can finally start experimenting with ethanol. I really am curious to see how much of an effect winterizing my QWISO with ethanol will have. But I would also like to finally experiment with green dragon tinctures and stuff. I just recently did a glycerin tincture, but it's too weak for my liking. I'll end up using it in baked goods or something.

I might also have to purchase some hexane at some point. I am comfortable working with solvents, but I choose not to mess with butane because it's compressed. I believe that the true danger inherent in BHO production is not the flammability of the solvent, but the fact that it is compressed gas instead of fluid.

Click to expand...

BHO production is safe as long as you do it outside away from any potential ignition sources. I wouldn't try it indoors.

Hexane vapors are supposed to be more dangerous for your health in terms of inhalation. I've tried a few batches with hexane. The oil is harder to purge, and the quality didn't turn out as well as the batches of BHO I made with the same plants.

Yeah outdoors is out of the question for me. I live in a very urban area and if a static electricity spark caused a fireball, I would damage lots of other people's property in addition to my own. Not willing to take that chance.

So indoors with proper ventilation is all I have, and I can do it safely with the way my windows are positioned. I have lots of windows! And yes, hexane is not something you want to breathe in so I would use a makeshift fume hood that I used to use when I did acid/base extractions in my DMT days. Purging hexane is probably not much more difficult than purging naphtha which I used to do. With a thin layer and enough time, it's gone.

But I don't know if I will go to all that trouble yet. I'm still thinking about it. I like the ease of doing simple extractions without too much refining, so I don't want to get too involved in hardcore concentrate production. I'm just thinking out loud.

The next step I'm taking is to simply try winterizing my qwiso with ethanol to see if that removes any waxes. That might make a bit of a difference on its own, so that is my next step I think.

Hey Hush, great thread!
What made you decide to reheat or do a final purge? What is Winterization? Also wondering how quick of a quick wash you used?
Did you start with trim or bud? Sorry about all the Q's but I am impressed!
Thanks~mT

That's a good question, what made me decide to reheat? I can't remember exactly! Looking back, I remember getting to a point where I felt defeated... I just couldn't figure out a way to make the stuff easier to work with, to be able to use the end product without getting it everywhere and sticking to myself and to the containers and so on. I began reading a lot of different ways people work with their concentrates, and not just qwiso, but BHO and other ways too. I also remember gathering TONS of valuable info over at Gray Wolf's site. I've actually found that some of the gems of information are in the comments section below each of the blog posts there (which are already phenomenally valuable themselves!). And I remember people talking about using parchment paper for a final remelt which helps to get just a smidge of decarboxylation happening and stuff like that. At some point I ended up going out and buying a roll of parchment paper, then reheating some powdered qwiso scrapings on low in the oven. As it began melting I realized there was still some bubbles of iso puffing up and purging itself, from that point on I've always done it, to get the last bit of the iso out.

Winterization is technically starting your extraction off with a nonpolar solvent, and then redissolving that in a polar solvent. Most commonly in the world of cannabis concentrates, the nonpolar solvent seems to be butane and the polar solvent ethanol... In my case though, it wouldn't technically be correct to call it winterization because I start my extraction in a polar solvent, isopropyl alcohol. But iso is less polar than ethanol, so if I wash my qwiso in ethanol, it should still pull out some of the waxes the iso picked up, however few they are... according to the info I've gathered from the other site, anyway.

The extractions featured in this thread have all been from dried trim, from previous harvests. The most recent one I did, which was of a better quality end result, was frozen trim soaked in frozen iso for 20 seconds or so, followed by maybe another 30 seconds of a partial soak (due to a small portion of the leaf mass being stuck in the strainer, which was due to lack of preparation and foresight). I predict that next time, when I compensate for the logistical problem I ran into last time, the end result will have even less waxes and water solubles in it.

So your not shaking, just soaking? I have started looking into extractions many times but now I'm serious! I'm gonna look into Grey Wolf. He has his own site? Also plan to pick up some partchment paper. Thanks again, I'll be following along!
~mT

Oh, I forgot to mention that, but yes, during that 20 seconds I am gently rolling the jar around. Not a shake so much as a swish. In the past when I shook harder I noticed the alcohol would take on a green color even with a very quick wash time. I believe this is because the trim is very fragile while it is submerged in freezing alcohol, and the cell wall can be easily broken down.

Yeah do a search for skunk pharm research and you'll find it. (I never know if we're allowed to leave links or not?)

So I've been hitting this oil finally... It is heaven! It's almost twice as strong as the previous batch. This was also from a mix of different strains than the one before. The oil actually retained the predominant aroma of the one of the strains, Silver LA, which has a strong frankincense smell. So that makes this oil very tasty! It is also a beautiful amber-gold color when it gets all stretched out from pulling off dabs:

Hush, I absolutely couldn't believe you wanted to deliberately use hexane!

From EPA

Hexane
110-54-3
Hazard Summary-Created in April 1992; Revised in January 2000

Hexane is used to extract edible oils from seeds and vegetables, as a special-use solvent, and as a cleaning agent. Acute (short-term) inhalation exposure of humans to high levels of hexane causes mild central nervous system (CNS) effects, including dizziness, giddiness, slight nausea, and headache. Chronic (long-term) exposure to hexane in air is associated with polyneuropathy in humans, with numbness in the extremities, muscular weakness, blurred vision, headache, and fatigue observed. Neurotoxic effects have also been exhibited in rats. No information is available on the carcinogenic effects of hexane in humans or animals. EPA has classified hexane as a Group D, not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity.

Testicular damage has been observed in male rats exposed to hexane via inhalation.

Hexane is the one reason many of my organic friends won't use BTO, because they do not believe the hexane ever purges from the oil with the butane.

And this:

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/some-additives-in-vegetable-oils

I dig you want your qwiso to be the best, but I would always go with food grade.

just my 2 cents.

First of all, hexane is food grade. When you buy USP grade hexane, it's food grade. Second of all, I've copied this from Gray Wolf's site:

It can be purged under heat and vacuum using thin film techniques, or simply washed in ethanol, which boils at 78C/172.4F.

Our sensory perception threshold for hexane is 30ppm and OSHA TWA limits for breathing it 8 hours, is 500 ppm, so we can detect its gasoline like taste far below TLV.

Hexane is commonly used to produce pharmaceuticals and even food products, and is not Mother’s Milk, but the point is moot, as it is not left in amounts that are toxic.

There is a difference between trace amounts and toxic doses, because poison is in the dosage. Even Oxygen is a toxin at over 75% atmosphere and you are just as dead as from an over dose of any substance.

So what are the facts about hexane? One is that if hexane is present at levels as low as 30ppm, it tastes exactly like gasoline.

Since concern starts at 250 ppm for chronic and nearly continuous exposure, our senses are adequate to protect us from exposure to toxic levels.

Click to expand...

It's kind of hard to leave behind any hexane if you have a working sense of smell and taste. Also, you can purge it into ethanol to remove it all if needed. But I appreciate you bring a "safety first" attitude to the discussion! Safety can never really be talked about too much, so I thank you for bringing up those points.

I would personally be concerned about using hexane in a scenario where I was never evaporating down 100%. But for making oil, at least the kind to be vaporized, you evaporate away entirely. This way, when you scrape up the end result, if it smells like gasoline, you know you still have solvent in there.

It's also important to mention here that drinkable ethanol also causes some nasty, permanent effects at its toxicity levels, which goes to show that even things we refer to as "food grade" can still be poisonous. It all boils down to knowing toxicity levels and working around them with a wide berth.

I appreciate your cogent response. To each his own. I don't mean to sound alarmist, but I feel that now I should have quoted the second article. Rapeseed used to be poisonous to humans now it is called canola oil due to processing. But how good are our studies and is there ever a vested interest in industry trying to protect itself by downplaying and minimizing the effects of harsh chemicals.

Having lost my non-smoking, non-drinking Dad to Stage 4 cancer the past year, my belief in the so-called safety of chemicals is at an all-time low. things like asbestos used to be considered extremely safe, now we know they aren't.

That is one reason I so love the Bubbleman and his Bubblebags.

Is the qwiso/BHO really that much better than water extraction or is it a question of chlorophyll?

Anyway, you solved one major prob for me with your A/C window unit choice in your 1000 watt grow.

have a good one.

I'm sorry to hear about your father. My condolences.

Personally, the reason why I need purified oils, instead of something like good old fashioned hand-rubbed or bubble hash, is specifically so that I can use my portable e-cig style vaporizer. Bubble hash wouldn't work too well in an oil cartridge because it's generally not a full-melt oil. Believe me, I'm aware that some grades of bubble can be full melt, but I mean, in general, one can't say "bubble hash will work in those carts."

I like QWISO because I can end up with a lot of product in the end, and it's all full melt, and I don't have to do a bunch of different "phases" of the procedure, to collect various grades. I mean, I could run the trim a second time through more iso, but the end result from that wash is very low yield, and not enough quality, so I always just throw it out. If you get enough the first time, the second time is not really worth the effort, in my opinion.

But I love bubble hash, and I also love how easy it is to handle. I used to make it all the time (not using bubble bags, but just doing an old-fashioned "ice water extraction") and I loved capping bowls with the stuff. I also used to add it to joints. Good times will be had! But specifically so I can use my vape pen, I have moved on to purified oils. I honestly don't see myself going back to anything else, now! It's the stealthiest, most powerful way to easily, quickly, and conveniently get medicated. In fact, I think oils are the future of cannabis medicating. And for those of us "stay highs" that medicate multiple times each day, every day... using a vape pen is just so much more desirable than packing up bowls of green and trying to find a secluded place to medicate.

Glad to have helped you out with the window AC unit. Yep, a cheap-ass window banger in a quasi-sealed room was all I needed to cool down my 1000 watter.

I scraped up what was left in the pyrex dish from the last extraction, and melted it down. This time I didn't leave it on the heat very long at all. I think that made it so the oil is more shattery this time, since it didn't get much decarboxylation:

I just did another extraction tonight. This time it was done proper, with a very quick wash. The only thing I did differently than usual is I froze the alcohol after the wash, then filtered it again through a coffee filter. I noticed a brownish colored dust left behind in the filter. I think this has been one of the best extractions I've done yet!

Here it is after scraping it up:




Then here it is immediately after melting down in the oven at 170:




Then here it is after taking it off the heat:




The end result... waxy goodness: