1.9Cu Oven Across International or Hydrion Scientific

bull619 · Jan 5, 2014

I have been researching an over for a while now and it's about time to pull the trigger. I originally only considered getting AI's oven because of the improved controller and relatively good reviews. Also their customer service has been really good. They respond to questions quickly. 1.9 Cu Ft Lab Digital Vacuum Drying Oven 250°C 16x14x14

On the other hand, I really like the Hydrion oven that only operates to 65 deg. C. 1.9 Cu Ft Accurate Vacuum Drying Oven 5 - 65°C with 16.3"x14.6"x13.6" Chamber.

Here are my questions:

1. Until I move I'm worried a bit about power consumption as my panel is full and I'm afraid of tripping circuit breakers. This makes me lean to the Hydrion because of the 500 watt maximum.

2. I plan to use 4 racks in either oven. Is there an advantage here by going with a specific oven?

3. Are prices with either company negotiable? I noticed on Hydrion's Ebay listings they have a make off option. I'm not looking for the cheapest unit but if I can lower my cost it would be a plus.

4. I'm using a Yellow Jacket 7CFM bullet pump. Is this pump sufficient?

5. I know that many people leave their ovens on all the time. I will be using it indoors in an environment where the ambient temperature won't change much. Does either oven work better without leaving it on all the time?

Thanks to anyone that takes the time to respond. I know I don't have many posts but I follow daily and the information posted on this site is priceless.

Gray Wolf · Jan 5, 2014

I have never played with a Hydrion, so will defer making judgements.

1.0 500W is enough for what we typically use an oven for.
2.0 Hard to see what you are doing with four racks. It isn't a dial a process where you pick a number and push a button, it requires visual feedback and adjustments to perfectly finish every piece.

You will need shelves with some mass.
3.0 ???
4.0 More than enough pump.
5.0 It is better to have it on long enough to stabilize, which can take awhile, so leaving it on is a good option, if you use it very much.

rb extractors · Jan 6, 2014

bull619 said:
I have been researching an over for a while now and it's about time to pull the trigger. I originally only considered getting AI's oven because of the improved controller and relatively good reviews. Also their customer service has been really good. They respond to questions quickly. 1.9 Cu Ft Lab Digital Vacuum Drying Oven 250°C 16x14x14

On the other hand, I really like the Hydrion oven that only operates to 65 deg. C. 1.9 Cu Ft Accurate Vacuum Drying Oven 5 - 65°C with 16.3"x14.6"x13.6" Chamber.

Here are my questions:

1. Until I move I'm worried a bit about power consumption as my panel is full and I'm afraid of tripping circuit breakers. This makes me lean to the Hydrion because of the 500 watt maximum.

2. I plan to use 4 racks in either oven. Is there an advantage here by going with a specific oven?

3. Are prices with either company negotiable? I noticed on Hydrion's Ebay listings they have a make off option. I'm not looking for the cheapest unit but if I can lower my cost it would be a plus.

4. I'm using a Yellow Jacket 7CFM bullet pump. Is this pump sufficient?

5. I know that many people leave their ovens on all the time. I will be using it indoors in an environment where the ambient temperature won't change much. Does either oven work better without leaving it on all the time?

Thanks to anyone that takes the time to respond. I know I don't have many posts but I follow daily and the information posted on this site is priceless.

Having both, I would avoid the hydrion. The build quality isn't as good, the controller isn't as programmable which means you get temp spikes when you open the door, but I do like the shelves.

the money saved with the Hydrion just isn't worth it... especially since if anything goes wrong, you have to send it back to china :/

PM and I might be able to get you a better price on the AI

Permacultuure · Jan 6, 2014

I'm happy with Hydrions ovens. Its true about dealing with shanghai for returns, that would be a pain, but I've yet to experience a problem. The shelves are great but their lead time on additional shelves tends to be two to four weeks, you'd have better luck finding someone to fabricate a frame w/ shelves in that time. You can definitely get them less than the sticker price, which can be substantially cheaper than an AI.

rb extractors · Jan 6, 2014

I think given how much we make making oil, I'd rather pay a little extra for the AI's, the more versatile controller, better customer service, US offices, etc. It is nice saving money until something goes wrong. hell, they couldn't even align our door properly :/

bull619 · Jan 6, 2014

I think the biggest selling point so far is that AI replies to my emails.

Gray Wolf · Jan 6, 2014

bull619 said:
I think the biggest selling point so far is that AI replies to my emails.

No opinion at this point, but it is clear that AI is interested in our market and doing what it takes to secure it for themselves. A motivated seller that answers messages and responds, trumps one that doesn't, any day of the week.

rb extractors · Jan 6, 2014

I never had issues with hydrion replying to emails. Our lock latch didn't align properly and was grinding against each other. trying to explain to them what was going on, even with pics, was frustrating. Their engineers always swore something that was happening couldn't happen. the connection points on the AI .9 oven are beefier than the 1.9 Hydrion :/

bull619 · Jan 6, 2014

Sounds like my decision is all made up. AI 1.9 with the updated slow ramping controller. Can't wait to ditch these aluminum chambers or use them to hold pressure for dewaxing.

rb extractors · Jan 6, 2014

you'll be much happier

hydrionsci · Apr 3, 2014

rb extractors said:
I never had issues with hydrion replying to emails. Our lock latch didn't align properly and was grinding against each other. trying to explain to them what was going on, even with pics, was frustrating. Their engineers always swore something that was happening couldn't happen. the connection points on the AI .9 oven are beefier than the 1.9 Hydrion :/

Dear all,

This is Julia Tsui, regional sales manager of Hydrion Scientific. Thank you all very much for discussion about Hydrion Scientific’s vacuum oven, and I guess we need to have some explanations here:

1. We now improved oven to 5 rack holders, meaning we can add shelves in minutes.
2. We also improved it to intelligent controller, in which PID are determined automatically based on target temperature. You don’t need to (though you still can) dial in anymore.
3. We have our office in Baltimore, and we are really proud of our customer service, especially aftersales. We will move stock to the States in Q2 of 2014.
4. Sorry for the problem of @rb_extractors. That “problematic” oven is actually one of the first 5 ovens that we sold, when we are not that experienced in QA of vacuum ovens. There was a little misalignment on the door latch. So far this is the only oven with this problem, and we partially refunded for the problem after discussing with buyer.
5. We do accept returns and customers need to pay no more than domestic shipping. (Not even one oven has been returned to us yet, we have 100% satisfaction guarantee.)
6. You are able to dial in the controller in the same way as AI’s. Internal parameters and guides can be found in user manual.

Thank you again for your attention!
Julia

Kcar · Apr 3, 2014

I've used the Hydrion Scientific 1.9cu 65C oven and it worked like
a charm. Held temp perfect, great shelves, Very easy to use.
(Once you learn to think in Celsius and Pascals)

Sextracts · Apr 3, 2014

I will say I was disappointed to find out 1.9 from AI can be found for under $1000 direct from china on alibaba, but i guess what we are paying for is the shipping, customer service, and being in the states, and also a brand. If i recall once it gets to temperature the AI is only pulling about 75-80watts at a time.

cyphaman · Apr 3, 2014

hydrionsci said:
Dear all,

This is Julia Tsui, regional sales manager of Hydrion Scientific. Thank you all very much for discussion about Hydrion Scientific’s vacuum oven, and I guess we need to have some explanations here:

1. We now improved oven to 5 rack holders, meaning we can add shelves in minutes.
2. We also improved it to intelligent controller, in which PID are determined automatically based on target temperature. You don’t need to (though you still can) dial in anymore.
3. We have our office in Baltimore, and we are really proud of our customer service, especially aftersales. We will move stock to the States in Q2 of 2014.
4. Sorry for the problem of @rb_extractors. That “problematic” oven is actually one of the first 5 ovens that we sold, when we are not that experienced in QA of vacuum ovens. There was a little misalignment on the door latch. So far this is the only oven with this problem, and we partially refunded for the problem after discussing with buyer.
5. We do accept returns and customers need to pay no more than domestic shipping. (Not even one oven has been returned to us yet, we have 100% satisfaction guarantee.)
6. You are able to dial in the controller in the same way as AI’s. Internal parameters and guides can be found in user manual.

Thank you again for your attention!
Julia

thanks for letting us know

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-9-Cu-Ft-5...en-with-Intelligent-Controller-/151266576465?

does the 0.9 and 1.9 both have the upgrades? Even the construction looks stronger, more like AIs.

Looks awesome....Although that new AI terpenoid trap better be compatible !!

AI Engineering · Apr 3, 2014

AI definitely appreciates all the positive comments and welcome the negative as well. Customer service is often difficult, but is priority #1 for us. We have sold literally thousands of our ovens yearly and just by the numbers there are surely going to be issues. We take all issues extremely serious as a point of customer service and quality. We stand by our products!

We are always looking to advance your capabilities through the use of our equipment and as a result of some very hard work we have many new and exciting items coming out within the next couple months. AI is an NJ based company and our products are assembled and manufactured in both China and the U.S.A., but we are the manufacturer. Anyone else that sells an oven that looks like ours is either a scammer or copycat. These devices are never the same as the original and are constructed with substandard parts.

Questions and comments are welcome! Feel free to call our customer service department with any questions or suggestions. 888-988-0899. You can also email us at info@acrossinternational.com. Thank you so much for your business and we look forward to serving you...

HighStateToke · Apr 4, 2014

I can't help but find these posts comical.

rb extractors · Apr 4, 2014

I'm kind of surprised that either weighed in on this.

I can say dealing with China direct is problematic... the most being distance and the language barrier.

The unit we tried by hydrion seemed fine initially but fit and finish ultimately were below standard. The controller they used wasn't as accurate as we were led to believe. Hydrion did provide a discount in the end which was greatly appreciated. I can say that follow through just isn't there. They were suppose to provide fixes but never did.

Given the small price differential, I preferred the ability to deal with people who are here in the states and a company truly committed to continually providing a better product for us to use.

A perfect example of the amazing customer support was upgrading anyone who wanted their new controller at no charge.

Gray Wolf · Apr 4, 2014

I'm pleased that both have now joined the discussion, so let's take advantage of the opportunity to tell them what we really want and ask what they intend to do with that information.

1.0 We need an oven with good access and good visibility. Large door glass and lighting would improve on most of the available designs.

2.0 We need to have shelves that either have enough mass to retain heat when loading, or are heated other ways. The design of heating the outside shell unevenly on the outside and depending only on radiant heat to process our product, does not meet our needs.

3.0 A solid shelf attached to the oven walls so as to also use conduction to heat them, would be better than a bunch of wires shelves that we can't use because we can't see what we are doing with more than about two. If they are movable, they need a lot more mass or best yet, to be heated and controlled individually.

4.0 We need a vacuum system that we have fine control of and which has an affordable chemical duty pump attached, to allow cold boiling and terpene harvesting from the exhaust.

5.0 Us'n home folks need that in a package that we can afford.

6.0 The commercial folks need more instrumentation and controls to reduce the operator skill required.

7.0 We all need to feel comfortable with whom we are dealing with, and such trust is built up over time, from observing what is actually happening, regardless of what is being said.

As both of ya'll company representatives have already noticed, this forum doesn't pull a lot of punches, so it is both a good measure of what is being said about you, and a good source of marketing information.

The flip side of course, is that it can get bloody at times and all dirty laundry is shared, soooo don't have anyone with their feelings on their shoulder as your link...............

What other features would the rest of ya'll brothers and sisters like to add?

dreaded · Apr 4, 2014

...Gray Wolf for prez.

I wish i could add to that...but i'm just getting a vac chamber....
looking @ the price though...of course i'm going to say..they cost...^^ #5(not commercial here)
Maybe i'm not seeing something....but i'm paying $1900 for a oven that can hold a vac...& still plan on getting one... :dunno:

AI Engineering · Apr 4, 2014

Certainly to be expected that we pay attention to the business, given the volume we provide to this market. I wanted to try to ease some tension with the users that have issues with our equipment and answer any questions that I can. We though it be best that AI Engineering post here, but if there are any sales questions, I can certainly have anyone else interject.

Gray Wolf, I assure you that we have been paying attention and working very hard for solutions. If anyone will be in Denver at the end of the month, please come and talk to me directly. We will have lots of new bells and whistles to show. If anyone has any questions, or comments you can email me directly at Engineering@AcrossInternatinoal.com

1.9Cu Oven Across International or Hydrion Scientific

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