Hexane Honey Oil extraction and alchemy

bump.. to the master i love your thread ..but u gave out the secret lol

the only true way to extract thc resin is to use butane or hexane.. .. why everyone askes.. because butane and hexane consist of non-polar molecules . and thc is also non-polar .. plant matter and chlorophyll are polar.. non polar molecules do not brake down plant material like polar substances such as water / iso alcohol.. this is why butane and hexane make the purest form of concentrate but they also differ in consistancy/smell/and taste in my opinion from the diff solvents ..


my hexane turns into glass almost rock candy ..at room temp can be handled and is still clear

my bho turns into clay or wax as they say now ..

l

heres a recent pic of a my quick "True wash " method this was done with about 1 and half ounces of trim and bout 100 ml of hexane not pure .. didnt have at the time so i used . mg chemicals electrosolve zero residue the way i orj learned how to do it .. very hard to find in a can .now i get my hexane by the quart

this was all done in a hour .the material was not grinded and not soaked in the hexane ..

first


almost done

I knew i came to the right place. Thank you graywolf for this thread

i get my hexane online... repackaged from bulk... reagent tech grade hexane ... its pretty easy to find.. and the company repackages it from bulk into shipable containers ..
here is there disclaimer


SHIPMENT IS CLASSIFIED AS ORM-D CONSUMER COMMODITY. OUR PACKAGING MEETS ALL APPLICABLE REQUIREMENTS OF THE US DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. WE ARE A CERTIFIED SHIPPER AND SEND THIS PRODUCT IN SAFE AND LEGAL PACKAGING BY A LEGAL CARRIER.

kilacaLIbud said:

bump.. to the master i love your thread ..but u gave out the secret lol

Click to expand...

Why take the knowledge you learned to the grave?


Better to teach, inform and educate people, than having people doing it the wrong way and not as pure. Imagine if people like GW, kept this information to himself and whenever one posted, he would reply I know how but why would I tell you?

Have any of you seen this extraction process before? It's what the pro's do

Have any of you seen this extraction process before? It's what the pro's do

Hey Gray Wolf, great thread first off.

I found a really interesting patent online that describes a process designed to extract thc from cannabis buds relatively simply (by pharmaceutical standards). I realize that your goal is not to obtain pure delta 9 THC. I mean, there's a good reason why insist on using cannabis and its extracts instead of marinol. I have been prescribed marinol before and I did not enjoy it for the most part.

That said, there is still a LOT of really interesting and relevant information in that and I highly encourage anyone who was following this thread to look into it. Nothing in their procedure is outside of the ability or reach of anyone who is capable of performing the procedures described by Gray Wolf in this thread. There is a big exception to this when it starts requiring chromatography but at that point the extract is between 95-99% THC anyways. So..... Any thoughts?

http://www.surechem.org/index.php?Action=document&docId=759223&db=EPB&tab=desc&lang=EN&db_query=4%3A2%3A0%3A%3A4%3A2%3A0%3A%3A4%3A2%3A0%3A&markupType=all

Did anyone see this?

Did anyone see this?

Well I am not sure if this thread is still active but I am still holding out hope. If not then I apologize for reviving a dead thread. In the previous post I linked to a patent for a process to extract THC from cannabis. I will try to give a summary of the process as best as I can. I am not a professional chemist or anything but I have done a lot of oil extractions using various solvents as well as other simple chemistry experiments like acid-base extractions and making aspirin so I am pretty sure I understand the process described well enough to describe it.

The process uses heptane (but it specifies that hexane, butabne, etc could be used instead) to extract a crude extract from cannabis. After filtering out the plant matter the heptane (containing the cannabinoids) is brought to a pH between 12.7-13.2 by adding a solution of water and sodium hydroxide (lye). At this point the THC-a (The majority of the cannabinoids in the extract since it has NOT been decarboxylated yet) is converted into its sodium salt and becomes soluble in the aqueous solution and moves from the heptane into the water/sodium hydroxide solution. At the same time, nearly everything else that was extracted by the heptane remains behind in the heptane. The fluids are put into a separatory funnel and the heptane is discarded while the water/lye solution is kept. Next isopropyl ether, though any ether can be used (Pet. Ether is not an ether) is added to the aqueous solution in order to extract the THC-a salt from the water. After separating in a sep. funnel the isopropyl ether can be purged/evaporated and what remains is an oil containing upwards of 90% THC-a. The process continues further from here and while the remaining steps are definitely possible for anyone who is capable of making high quality oil using hexane or butane already, I do not think it is worthwhile to go any further because the extract at this point should be at least 90% THC-a sodium salt. All you need to do to convert the salt into THC is heat it up AKA decarboxylation and I think we all know how to do that part.

This method is interesting because it actually ends up extracting all of the THC as well as all of the THC-a. If the non-polar solvent is kept and evaporated/purged instead of discarded then you will be left with all of the THC (plus whatever else the N.P. solvent extracted).

This board is full of people who have done non-polar extractions to obtain oil and this process is not much more difficult. The only thing that I am unsure about is the isopropyl ether. I have no idea where to get that (yet).

DankTankUSA said:

The only thing that I am unsure about is the isopropyl ether. I have no idea where to get that (yet).

Click to expand...

We've done polarity extractions, but didn't use isopropyl ether. We buy most of our chemicals from American Scientific, so you might start there.

Here is how we do it, compliments of Joe, our bright, young biochemsitry student:

PNP Extractions

Some of our readers have shown interest in isolating the acidic from the neutral cannabinoids. So I set out to nail down a DIY capable procedure for the masses. The cannabinoids are first produced by the plant in their carboxylic acid form and over time these compounds are reduced to their active phenolic form. There is some evidence suggesting the medicinal benefits of the acidic compounds may be different than the phenolic compounds. This procedure will isolate the carboxylic acid compounds from the phenolic compounds. Keep in mind that heat, UV light and reactive oxygen species will reduce the carboxylic acids to their phenolic form.

Note: All or almost all of these items can be picked up locally or on Ebay. Be sure to always look at compatibility charts for anything not made from quartz or borosilicate glass.


Equipment needed:

• Glass or other chemical resistant funnel
• Glass beads size #13 (used for sandblasting)
• Glass container(s) (as many as you need for extracting)
• 3) 500 mL Erlenmeyer flasks (or quart mason jars)
• 3) Pasteur pipets or glass droppers
• 3) Glass 4oz bottles with droppers
• Glass stir rod
• Glass or other chemical resistant 250 mL graduated cylinder
• Oil bath
• PH paper (1-12)
• Balance or scale capable of weighing 0.1g
• Nitrile gloves
• Safety Glasses
• Coffee filter
• Hair dryer
• Ice bath

Chemicals Needed

• 100 mL 0.1M sodium hydroxide (NaOH) Food Grade

1M = 40g/L 0.1M = 4g/L or 0.4g/100 mL


(This solution is made by adding NaOH to a 50 ml of water, slowly while in the ice bath, then bringing to the final volume)

• 100 ml 32% hydrochloric acid (HCL)
• 100 ml 1% HCL

(This solution is made by adding 60 drops down the inside of the glass into 97 ml H2O)


($5 for 500 mL of 32% on ebay)

• ACS grade n-Hexane 3L /50g flowers for extraction

~250 mL for washing sand filter
~100 mL for NP extract from sand filter


(~$18/L on ebay, always buy a little more than needed)

• Denatured or isopropanol alcohol
• 1 gallon distilled water
• 10g Kosher salt (add to the water)

Note about safety: Always read through the procedure twice before you gather your chemicals and supplies. Make all your solutions label them with the chemical, concentration and the date they were prepared and set aside. I can’t stress labeling enough and not just for your sake. Check off each step as you go along in case you are interrupted or have a stoner moment. Move slowly and deliberately to avoid accidents. Don’t forget to wear proper safety equipment. When working with acids and bases it’s always advisable to keep a baking soda and water solution to neutralize any acid spills or splatters and a mild vinegar solution to neutralize any base spills. Kitty litter has saved my hide and I suggest you keep some handy.


Note on acids: Always add acid to water; never the reverse. Always drop down the side of the container so that it runs down the glass. When washing the sand filter with acid get as close to the beads as possible to avoid splatter. While uncomfortable 32% HCL not immediately scar your skin; you ll know immediately that it’s on you, but don’t panic. Baking soda is your first choice then flush the area for 15 min with running water. If it’s in your eyes flush immediately with water holding your eyelids away from our eyeballs. 15 min is an eternity when you are under the water and more is better in this instance.

Overview: This procedure can be used with fresh material if you want mostly carboxylic compounds. If you are using fresh material finely scissor chopped is sufficient. The longer the material is exposed to the hexane the better your yield will be.

Decant the hexane through a strainer to catch any particulates. Hexane boils below any significant decarboxylation temperature; so there is no reason to worry about any unintentional conversion when reducing the extract. The reduced extract should be easily dropped but still thick.

The sand filter is elegantly simple in its purpose. The glass beads provide a surface to dry the extract and because they are wet with H2O when you apply the hexane extract will remain on the surface. The glass beads need to be washed with all those chemicals in series to remove any impurities that would co extract if you didn’t. It is very important that the sand filter is wet when you apply the extract so moisten if necessary.

The polar extraction from the sand filter will remove few impurities and will be the highest quality of all the extracts. The color change from orange to clear is a convenient indicator that you are finished and can move the filter to the semi polar collection container. The semi polar extraction will be the dirtiest of the extracts. Most people don’t like to waste their hard work and this extract is still worth using.

The alcohol also helps to wash away the impurities that would otherwise end up in your non polar extract. After washing the filter clean with hexane in the non-polar extraction the filter needs to dry completely. While the sand filter is drying proceed with acidifying the polar extract to a PH of about 2 then filter.

Neutralize and discard the flow through then re extract the filter with alcohol. Reduce the extracts until dry and polish as you like. See our polishing extracts page for more info.


Procedure:

• Grind thoroughly dried and de-stemmed flowers and sift out any woody material.
• Place material into a large glass container(s)
• Add 1L of n-Hexane per 50g material
• Mix well
• Let stand several hours
• Decant n-Hexane and retain
• Repeat steps 3-6 two more times
• While Hexane is extracting prepare the sand filter
• Place the coffee filter into the funnel folded over without wrinkles
• Fill funnel 2/3 of the way with glass beads
• Wash with hexane
• Wash with alcohol
• Wash drop wise with 1% HCL ( if you see bubbles keep washing)
• Rinse thoroughly with distilled water 3 to 4 funnel volumes
• Set aside
• Combine and reduce hexane extracts in the oil bath to a thick resin

• Note: Hexane can expand rapidly (3 times the liquid volume or more) when heated without constant stirring.

• Re wet sand filter with H2O
• Drop wise place hexane onto the center of the sand filter while drying with the hairdryer
• Label the 500 mL Erlenmeyer flasks (or quart mason jars)

• Polar
• Semi Polar
• Non Polar

• Polar:
• Drop wise extract with your 0.1M NaOH until the liquid turns from deep orange to colorless. Rinse with H2O
• In an ice bath: Acidify the extract with 32% HCL drop wise on the glass

• Semi Polar: Rinse sand filter with 200 ml Alcohol

• Non Polar: Rinse with hexane until colorless
• Filter the Polar extract after the sand filter dries.
• Neutralize the polar junk that’s left with 0.1M NaOH and dispose
• Then extract with alcohol into a clean container
• Reduce all extracts
• Polish each as you like and enjoy

Taken from: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/pnp-extractions/

DIPE forms very explosive peroxides very easily. It's safe in some hands but will blow others off. So it's not something you'll find in stores, though ethyl ether is everywhere. AFAIK it can't be made in the same way as ethyl ether from sulfuric acid and ethanol.

Extractions taking advantage of the acid function of the acidic cannabinoids go back to at least 1960 in the peer-reviewed literature, and they have been mentioned here before, but it's not a great method apparently because of a bad partition coefficient. I guess that's why they are using DIPE, but it's a patent and may be hokum. It's a bad sign right away when patents cite underground publications and websites, and the 10 hour reflux in 22% NaOH is hard to swallow. The first step, extraction of acidic cannabinoid with petroleum ether, is also not a great extraction.

The best use of the carboxyl isn't extraction, it's chromatography. THCA (CBDA, etc.) and (then decarboxylation to) THC have very different behavior. The elution of everything else does not change with decarboxylation treatment.

G.O. Joe said:

The elution of everything else does not change with decarboxylation treatment.

Click to expand...

Key point, I'm thinking. We know that it makes THC orally active, boils off the lighter aromatic terpenes, but what exactly does it do to CBD and CBN.

Juicing successes, suggest that decarboxylation is more important to maximize psychoactive effect, but not nessarily to achieve impressive immune system effects?????

Does anyone have any solid data?

Gray Wolf - Thanks a bunch for your response. That is a really interesting process, I never thought about using glass beads as a sand filter but that is absolutely brilliant! I could not help but read every page on your website and it will be a source of info for me from now on for all things relating to cannabis extracts.

G.O. Joe - I really appreciate your response too. I was aware that DIPE forms explosive peroxides and that definitely makes me wary. I am pretty sure that ethyl ether also can form explosive peroxides though (if I remember my chem classes correctly, it was a while back...). I definitely do not plan on doing this type of extraction on a regular basis because I do not think it is necessary, efficient, or cost effective. It is, however, interesting and I would like to try it out with trim/popcorn buds once my current grow is complete. I will probably use ethyl ether because it seems to be a lot easier to source and at much better prices than DIPE.

Would you mind explaining a bit more what you mean when you say that the first step of the extraction (extraction w/ pet ether) is not a great extraction? Are you saying that using pet ether as a solvent is bad or that the particular method used in the patent is flawed? I use lab grade hexane pretty much every time I perform an extraction these days and it is by far my favorite extraction solvent to work with. I definitely agree about the 10 hour reflux in NaOH. If I remember correctly that step is further in the process than I plan on going. I want to go as far as using the DIPE (or in my case ethyl ether more likely) to extract the THC-a from the NaOH solution.

I have been wondering about the partition coefficient between the THC-a in the NaOH solution and the ether but I have had no luck finding any information thus far.

Part of the reason why I want to try this out is because I am unsure about whether the process works the way that it is described in the patent. They make it sound like a great improvement over the methods that existed at the time. However, pretty much every patent that I have ever read uses similar language in describing the patented invention or process as a great innovation or breakthrough that is considerably superior to existing methods/technology. In any case, I think it will be fun to try it out and I will have plenty of time to plan it out since I won't be finished with this grow till mid summer.

*Edit* I forgot to ask, do either of you know what process is used to extract the cannabinoids used in Sativex?

Thanks again you guys!

DankTankUSA said:

*Edit* I forgot to ask, do either of you know what process is used to extract the cannabinoids used in Sativex?

Thanks again you guys!

Click to expand...

You're welcome and sorry, I don't.

DankTankUSA said:

Would you mind explaining a bit more what you mean when you say that the first step of the extraction (extraction w/ pet ether) is not a great extraction?

Click to expand...

The literature says that the acids are not quantitatively extracted with pure alkanes. Note the addition of acetic acid below. People here have so much weed that they prefer to lose grams of THC (as THCA) with butane extractions, rather than lose milligrams of oh so precious yet ubiquitous in nature monoterpenes (in a prior decarboxylation). Not to mention how totally uncool and inconvenient it is to get an oil instead of shatter.

The only way a patent could have been granted (if the patent office actually cared) is by going way outside the boundaries of prior art. The following was printed after that patent application, but the method is older:

100 g pulverised plant material with a total D9-THC content [THCA content was not mentioned!?!] of 5% was extracted with 500 mL petrol ether acidified with acetic acid (0.5 mL CH3COOH in 500 mL PE). The filtrated extract was re-extracted three times with 400 mL of an aqueous solution of NaOH and Na2SO3 (2% each). These combined extracts were acidified with ca. 500 mL of glacial 5 % sulfuric acid until pH reached 3, and immediately extracted with three times 400 mL TBME. These combined organic extracts were dried with Na2SO4, filtrated and concentrated in a rotary evaporator at 25–30C by aid of cryostatic cooling of the vapours. The concentrate was dried overnight at vacuum conditions, yielding 1.71 g brown amorphous material.

This presumably contains fatty acids and maybe carotenoids as well as CBDA, CBNA, and so on, but no one ever says how much or what is in such extracts besides the cannabinoid acids. The yield matches my own experiences with NaOH extractions, but the color was light yellow (nice powder) with straight petroleum ether. They (above) went on to chromatography, but only ended up with 99 mg.

The use of sulfite (or bisulfite or metabisulfite) is wise, especially with extracts containing CBD, which gives colored product on oxidation.

G.O. Joe said:

, especially with extracts containing CBD, which gives colored product on oxidation.

Click to expand...

Hey G.O.Joe, will you explain please,
oxidation of which components of the extract changes its color from light yellow to dark amber?
CBN formed by the oxidation of THC and CDB? What color is CBN?

jump117 said:

oxidation of which components of the extract changes its color from light yellow to dark amber?

Click to expand...

There is no systematic study of cannabinoid oxidation that I'm aware of - haven't looked for one. There is a lot that has not been said by those in the know. I could buy an old used GC/MS cheap, but would have a harder time with a tank of helium carrier gas (as an individual without a company credit card), maybe the software, the little things.

Pure THC is supposed to turn purple or whatever at first in air, but obviously this does not happen with extracts (using NaOH or not) - this famously does happen to extracts containing CBD, the Beam test - KOH in ethanol solvent in air. CBDA is supposed to turn brown before going purple.

Any darker color noted of a solution of decarboxylated pot, or in a solution of decarboxylated extract of fresh material, could just be carotenoid oxidation or something. A darker color with pre-decarboxylation seems to indicate something not present in post-decarboxylated extract is being extracted. Or it may just be a more efficient oxidation with plant material instead of an extract, or something I haven't read or am not bright enough to guess.

I'd have to google a seller of reference CBN for its color.

All solvent stripping and decarboxylation need not be done in the presence of oxygen.

G.O. Joe said:

I'd have to google a seller of reference CBN for its color.

Click to expand...

All hope is only for you, your findings repeatedly shocked me!

G.O. Joe said:

The literature says that the acids are not quantitatively extracted with pure alkanes. Note the addition of acetic acid below. People here have so much weed that they prefer to lose grams of THC (as THCA) with butane extractions, rather than lose milligrams of oh so precious yet ubiquitous in nature monoterpenes (in a prior decarboxylation). Not to mention how totally uncool and inconvenient it is to get an oil instead of shatter.

Click to expand...

Hey Joe, I am still a little confused. Are you saying that acidifying the hexane would improve the yield vs hexane without acidification?

Isn't it possible to decarboxylate without significant loss in terpenes? I was under the impression that as long as you are careful and avoid high temperatures then you could decarb without losing much. That said, I cannot remember what I am basing this impression on so I could be wrong. If anyone knows whether or not decarboxylation can be done without losing lots of terpenes I would love to know the answer.

Thanks for posting that method, it is always interesting to see different methods for extracting cannabinoids. I was really interested by the use of MTBE because unlike other ethers it doesn't form explosive peroxides.

G.O. Joe said:

The use of sulfite (or bisulfite or metabisulfite) is wise, especially with extracts containing CBD, which gives colored product on oxidation.

Click to expand...

That is a great suggestion. I definitely would not want a high CBD extract oxidizing into purple quinones.

G.O. Joe said:

I'd have to google a seller of reference CBN for its color.

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According to the analysis done on a reference sample by Tocris Bioscience CBN is an off white solid. I do not know if it changes color with oxidization.
http://www.tocris.com/literature/3130_1_coa.pdf?1338060462

Oh yeah, I did find the process used in the Sativex patent. They decarboxylate the dried cannabis, then extract using subcritical CO2 and then winterize in enthanol before evaporating.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7344736.html

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

DankTankUSA said:

According to the analysis done on a reference sample by Tocris Bioscience CBN is an off white solid. I do not know if it changes color with oxidization.
http://www.tocris.com/literature/3130_1_coa.pdf?1338060462

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Hey DankTankUSA, thanks for the links.
It is written that THC and CBD degrade to CBN.
So degrading, together with increasing amounts of a white solid in the composition,
the resin should turn white and harden.
But that is not happening, seems something is not accurate in Tocris Bioscience.

DankTankUSA said:

Hey Joe, I am still a little confused. Are you saying that acidifying the hexane would improve the yield vs hexane without acidification?

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Yes. The acetic acid is (probably) just a polar modifier.

DankTankUSA said:

Isn't it possible to decarboxylate without significant loss in terpenes?

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IDK. The most volatile terpenes could be deliberately removed by hydrodistillation, then added. Different and/or more terpenes of your choice could be added - it amazes me that this isn't already done for dispensary product, for more exotic ($$$) buds. Or the decarboxylation vapors could be collected in low boiling solvent.

DankTankUSA said:

Oh yeah, I did find the process used in the Sativex patent.

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I haven't seen anything, including their website, that says that their patent, or CO2 extraction in general, is what GW Pharma uses for raw BDS for Sativex. Saying that it is might get you shouted down: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5004940&postcount=155

jump117 said:

It is written that THC and CBD degrade to CBN.

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I'm not so sure about the CBD.