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A Complete Guide to Topping, Training and Pruning
- Thread starter Kodiak
- Start date
I just ran out of time and was too busy building my room. So instead of training or making scrog screens this time I just started super-cropping them. I don't really know how much I should be doing this? Every bud site or just the uppermost?
I would start at the top and work my way down.
Don't do it all at once but a little bit at the time. Allow the plants to adapt before you take the next step. By twisting and bending the uppermost tops, the lower ones will grow taller because they will get more light and the plant reacts just as it would if you had topped it instead. Give the plants some time to react and then repeat the process as many times as you deem necessary.
Squeeze and bend the stems gently or they might snap. You might want to tie down the branches that you super crop, so that they stay in place.
You might also want to remove some of the lower branches if they become energy sinks.
Take a look at this guide for detailed information on super cropping.
Don't do it all at once but a little bit at the time. Allow the plants to adapt before you take the next step. By twisting and bending the uppermost tops, the lower ones will grow taller because they will get more light and the plant reacts just as it would if you had topped it instead. Give the plants some time to react and then repeat the process as many times as you deem necessary.
Squeeze and bend the stems gently or they might snap. You might want to tie down the branches that you super crop, so that they stay in place.
You might also want to remove some of the lower branches if they become energy sinks.
Take a look at this guide for detailed information on super cropping.
highwayman1
Member
tagged this one some good info here.............
P
PastorJ
Great Post! Very Helpfull!
shihan2001
New member
Thank you, I'm brand new and this really helped me, Now Im trying tofigure out which T8 bulb is best for the budding cycle? How many watts, Lumens and color, I already have a 32watt 2700 lumens with a color factor of 6500K, Will this light work, or what would be best? Thanks for all the info, I do truley appreciste it
J
J
Hey J
6500K is good for vegging but you'll need 2700K for flowering. You can use the latter for both vegging and flowering but the first one is only good for vegging. The 6500K lights can be used as supplemental lighting during flowering but I would not use them alone.
Metal Halides and HPS's (High Pressure Gas Discharge Bulbs) are the best lights when it comes to growing but you can also get good results with fluoros (Low Pressure Gas Discharge Bulbs). The main problem with compact and regular fluoros is that the light does not penetrate very far, which means that you will have to keep them very close to the plants or they might start stretching like crazy. The upside is that it's almost impossible to burn your plants with fluoros because they stay so cool. That also means that you can run a virtually silent setup without noisy fans etc. if you get it right.
Just to give you an idea of the difference, a 600w HPS puts out 90,000 lumen, which means that you would need about 35 of your T8's to match it. Even if you did, the light from the HPS would reach ten times as far.
In other words, you will need a whole bunch of the fluoros in order for the setup to work. The plants need about 400-500 lumen per square feet during the seedling stage, about 2,500 during veg and close to 10,000 during flowering (some say that less will do).
The way to calculate this is to first figure out the square feet of you grow room. Then divide the total amount of lumen that your lights put out with that number and you'll get the total lumen per square feet. When you start doing the math, you will realize that it takes a lot of fluoros to reach those numbers.
Using several smaller bulbs will cover a greater area of the grow room but stronger lights with higher wattage will reach further down, so I guess you'll have to figure out what works best for you. It all depends on your grow room dimensions but you should not expect to get good results with low wattage fluoros if they are kept far away from the plants. It just won't work. Plants need a lot of light because they are used to growing under the sun.
Regardless of the lumen output, the intensity of the light from the fluoros will quickliy diminish over a short distance, so you really have to keep them close to the plants. 2-4 inches away is not unrealistic for low wattage fluoros. You might have to rig them so that you can raise and lower them according to the plants needs. It might also be a good idea to add some lights to the sides of the grow room, just to make sure that the lower growth gets some light as well.
Although dependent on several factors, it can be said that the rate of photosynthesis is directly proportional to the amount of light and CO2 that is available to the plant in the grow room. More light equals higher production and so on. Naturally the rate is also affected by the type of light that is supplied. In other words, it is best to provide light of the correct spectrum for each stage of development. Blue (6500K) for veg and red/yellow (2700K) for flowering.
I cannot tell you exactly how much light you will need but I'm sure that you can figure it out based on the information that I provided. You should also consider the cost of using outdated T8's when there are some good compact fluoros out on the market today. It might be cheaper to get some of the big cfl's, say the 250w ones or even larger, if you decide to go with fluorescent lighting. The T8's might come in handy though as you could use them on the walls as additional lighting.
Cfl's and regular fluoros are probably the best option for smaller stealth/cab grows because they don't produce a lot of heat.
If you are growing big go with the HPS, if you are growing small go for the CFL's.
If you have more questions, I suggest that you start a thread because there are a lot of people who know more about setting up this kind of grow room who can give you the details.
You might also find some answers in the grow guide, there's a link to it in my sig.
Good Luck
6500K is good for vegging but you'll need 2700K for flowering. You can use the latter for both vegging and flowering but the first one is only good for vegging. The 6500K lights can be used as supplemental lighting during flowering but I would not use them alone.
Metal Halides and HPS's (High Pressure Gas Discharge Bulbs) are the best lights when it comes to growing but you can also get good results with fluoros (Low Pressure Gas Discharge Bulbs). The main problem with compact and regular fluoros is that the light does not penetrate very far, which means that you will have to keep them very close to the plants or they might start stretching like crazy. The upside is that it's almost impossible to burn your plants with fluoros because they stay so cool. That also means that you can run a virtually silent setup without noisy fans etc. if you get it right.
Just to give you an idea of the difference, a 600w HPS puts out 90,000 lumen, which means that you would need about 35 of your T8's to match it. Even if you did, the light from the HPS would reach ten times as far.
In other words, you will need a whole bunch of the fluoros in order for the setup to work. The plants need about 400-500 lumen per square feet during the seedling stage, about 2,500 during veg and close to 10,000 during flowering (some say that less will do).
The way to calculate this is to first figure out the square feet of you grow room. Then divide the total amount of lumen that your lights put out with that number and you'll get the total lumen per square feet. When you start doing the math, you will realize that it takes a lot of fluoros to reach those numbers.
Using several smaller bulbs will cover a greater area of the grow room but stronger lights with higher wattage will reach further down, so I guess you'll have to figure out what works best for you. It all depends on your grow room dimensions but you should not expect to get good results with low wattage fluoros if they are kept far away from the plants. It just won't work. Plants need a lot of light because they are used to growing under the sun.
Regardless of the lumen output, the intensity of the light from the fluoros will quickliy diminish over a short distance, so you really have to keep them close to the plants. 2-4 inches away is not unrealistic for low wattage fluoros. You might have to rig them so that you can raise and lower them according to the plants needs. It might also be a good idea to add some lights to the sides of the grow room, just to make sure that the lower growth gets some light as well.
Although dependent on several factors, it can be said that the rate of photosynthesis is directly proportional to the amount of light and CO2 that is available to the plant in the grow room. More light equals higher production and so on. Naturally the rate is also affected by the type of light that is supplied. In other words, it is best to provide light of the correct spectrum for each stage of development. Blue (6500K) for veg and red/yellow (2700K) for flowering.
I cannot tell you exactly how much light you will need but I'm sure that you can figure it out based on the information that I provided. You should also consider the cost of using outdated T8's when there are some good compact fluoros out on the market today. It might be cheaper to get some of the big cfl's, say the 250w ones or even larger, if you decide to go with fluorescent lighting. The T8's might come in handy though as you could use them on the walls as additional lighting.
Cfl's and regular fluoros are probably the best option for smaller stealth/cab grows because they don't produce a lot of heat.
If you are growing big go with the HPS, if you are growing small go for the CFL's.
If you have more questions, I suggest that you start a thread because there are a lot of people who know more about setting up this kind of grow room who can give you the details.
You might also find some answers in the grow guide, there's a link to it in my sig.
Good Luck
vprising909
Member
thanks to all of the contributors of this post, I've found it very very helpful as I've had to make the transition from out door to indoor growing over the last few years. the techniques discussed here do work. thanks kodiak.
Greencloud
Member
Nicely done, excellent pics and info. Thanks for the great thread!
SnowRider221
Member
Question about scrogging in a micro grow:
I just made this small scrog from a bird feeder thing that caught my eye at walmart. Are the holes going to be too small for even my small cabinet sized plants to effectively grow through? In the lower picture I'm using the scrog more to bend the plants over for a tie-less LST sort of thing.
I just made this small scrog from a bird feeder thing that caught my eye at walmart. Are the holes going to be too small for even my small cabinet sized plants to effectively grow through? In the lower picture I'm using the scrog more to bend the plants over for a tie-less LST sort of thing.
Hi Snowrider
I like your idea.
The holes are a bit on the small side but I'm sure that you can make it work.
You could also consider scrogging the entire grow.
Seems like it would be quite an easy fit to suspend a scrog net at bit higher up where the shelf used to be. Scrogging the entire grow will give you more room to work with both on top and underneath and since it would be slightly higher up, you would also have time to train the plants so that they eventually cover the entire grow area.
I've got a feeling that scrogging a SOG would actually yeild the most in that area. Something to consider.
Keep us posted on your progress. Your setup will be a fine example of a micro scrog grow once you get the details sorted out.
I like your idea.
The holes are a bit on the small side but I'm sure that you can make it work.
You could also consider scrogging the entire grow.
Seems like it would be quite an easy fit to suspend a scrog net at bit higher up where the shelf used to be. Scrogging the entire grow will give you more room to work with both on top and underneath and since it would be slightly higher up, you would also have time to train the plants so that they eventually cover the entire grow area.
I've got a feeling that scrogging a SOG would actually yeild the most in that area. Something to consider.
Keep us posted on your progress. Your setup will be a fine example of a micro scrog grow once you get the details sorted out.
mellow yellow
Member
Excellent!! Thank you.
wonderplan
New member
So a buddy told me about this site and without even knowing, i took clones 30 days into flowering. at first i thought they were gonna die but it took about 3 weeks for them to start rooting and showing growth. as you will see from the pictures it looks just like yours.
thanks for the info cause at first they didnt look right and kinda through me off alittle
i agree... you should write a book
thanks again
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thanks for the info cause at first they didnt look right and kinda through me off alittle
i agree... you should write a book
thanks again
MR.Montana
Member
A+
A+
Best info ive found yet....much thanks
A+
Best info ive found yet....much thanks
B1G PUN
Member
Yeah this is very comprehensive, good work all around, especially Kodiak
So how sure fire is it to induce monster cropping by re vegging flowering clones? I could just picture a whole crop of the monster cropped heavy yielder, explode in 5 gallon buckets 
The monster cropping has intrigues me since first seeing it about a year ago.
How do the plants generally act?
At any rate I will be taking some late in flower clones of Black Berry Bubba, and an lvpk, their branching will lend itself well to a batshit insane monster crop
Cheers
Smiley
The monster cropping has intrigues me since first seeing it about a year ago.How do the plants generally act?
At any rate I will be taking some late in flower clones of Black Berry Bubba, and an lvpk, their branching will lend itself well to a batshit insane monster crop
Cheers
Smiley
Hard to say really since all plants are different but if you take enough clones I'm sure that you will end up with at least a few monsters.
If they root, they will also start growing again. The ones that don't, will perish. I'm still not sure why it happens but the flowering clones that revert back to veg will also be extremely vigorous as can be seen in the pictures. Combined with some wise training and pruning, you could get some real monster crops from those plants.
Give it a shot and see what happens.
If they root, they will also start growing again. The ones that don't, will perish. I'm still not sure why it happens but the flowering clones that revert back to veg will also be extremely vigorous as can be seen in the pictures. Combined with some wise training and pruning, you could get some real monster crops from those plants.
Give it a shot and see what happens.
