Yet another "What am I missing" Thread

Greetings to all good folk:

I have joined the R&D brigade and am trying to learn extraction.

I have read thru most of the longer threads so I hope I won't sound like a fool. (ie, question easily answered on post 417 in BHO lovers thread etc etc).

If I do, please be patient with me.

I have a 1 pound BVV extractor, bi directional with water jacket on the honey pot and recovery pot. I have done 14 runs and building my database of material and process data. I have had results all over the map.

I have had runs that came out with a 17% (80g) yield that was golden yellow clear shatter that made peoples mouths drop and stunned that it was not winterized. (Fourth run: To quote Jeremy Clarkson, "How hard can this be.") This from my own trim that I make sure is only sugar trim from second trim, over six months old. Only get runs like this off my own material,

I have had runs that came out 3% (15g) of blackpool (look, not the city) consistency from purchased trim of Fire OG.

I have also ran fresh trim (days old off a machine trimmer) that yielded well (12%, 55 g) but had the blackpool consistency.


PROCESS:

I stick trim in freezer, and keep it there anywhere from 1 day to weeks. Then stack dewax column with material, tamping down with a 2" dowl, not packed completely hard but definitely compressed. Then stick spool into freezer over night or weekend.

I assemble my system and pull it down to -30 with vac pump

I use rice DI to pack the spool and the inlet condenser coil from Solvent tank (n-Butane). Let sit for 20 minutes, to chill down the spool even further.

Inject fluid into bottom of spool and fill chamber. Let solvent sit in spool for 20 minutes. Re-valve to top fill and let discharge flow into chamber pot. When chamber is filled with liquid (about 1/2 inch from bottom of discharge pipe), I shut valve, fill the top spool with liquid again and let that sit for Approx 30 min while the first "blast" is recovered by my TRS-21. TRS-21 has a filter on intake and then goes into another condenser coil which is filled with ice, and changed frequently.

I have a re-purposed Sous vide machine running at a 31 C set point to heat my water. Using a 290 GPH maxi jet I run that water thru the lower portion of the water jacketed honey pot.

When Almost empty, I discharge the 2nd blast and let that run into recovery pot. When I get to -10 psi, I shut down pull honey pot, pour onto parchment paper and stick in Vac oven at -27 and 93 F.


So that is it, for now. I have to run. Any and all help & information is greatly appreciated.

And, of course, would love to hear from that great spirit animal of this forum. Lupus gris.

I guess my biggest question would be is why is it such an unknown of why different materials, of different age (two days, 6 months and over one year) can produce the dreaded blackpool.

I would like to have the knowledge that, "Ah, this is stuff could create the blackpool, therefore I should stick it in the freezer longer, use a DI/DNA bath, or wave a dead chicken over the spool."

When I'm extracting fresh material, its small untrimmed buds and hasn't been ground up or chopped in any way. Wet trimming allows the solvent to be more exposed to the chlorophyll and water in the plant matrix creating a darker extract.

As for the trim you bought, who knows, it could have been sprayed with something nasty, or maybe its a lot older than they told you? When buying trim, I would first run a 0.5 lb sample before purchasing. If the quality and yield were on point then I'd buy weight.

Also try reducing solvent contact time - do constant flow instead of soaking. Make sure everything is staying cold during the run with an IR thermometer - this takes a ton of dry ice.

There are several threads detailing post-processing methods to clean your extract: winterizing, activated carbon, bentonite, hexane/saline wash, SPD, chromatography.

This video shows a fairly low cost method of removing the polar compounds darkening your extract using dry column vacuum chromatography. hxxps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBNhu4kJ4Mc

Cadfael said:

I guess my biggest question would be is why is it such an unknown of why different materials, of different age (two days, 6 months and over one year) can produce the dreaded blackpool.

I would like to have the knowledge that, "Ah, this is stuff could create the blackpool, therefore I should stick it in the freezer longer, use a DI/DNA bath, or wave a dead chicken over the spool."

Click to expand...

Some thoughts:

What temperature is the LPG when injected? How cold does it stay during soak?

When you freeze the material, the ice crystals rupture cell walls, and if the material thaws out before extraction, it can enable the solvent to come in contact with their contents. Once frozen, never let it thaw until you are done with it.

Soaking material typically extracts more of the C-30 molecules, is where most of the color comes from.

Material extracted with clear trichomes, produces lighter colored material than when extracted from amber trichomes.

Older material produces darker extracts than younger material, because the C-30 components oxidize and break down.

I typically run at 21C/70F with an upper limit of 29C/85F.

My limited experience: buddy used to open blast. He also used to be on the fence about his buddies product vs mine until he started blasting. My stuff came out tan crumble, his other buddy was black soup, low yield, every time.

Growers use so much bullshit at flower theres endless possibilities as to why it's tainted. Why does some peoples trim taste like chemicals and producer black hash, and other people's trim taste like weed and produce tan hash?

you're having difficulties with your cold-dynamics for sure, over-freezing columns and under-chilling condensers. (a wetted di/alchol bath will absorb heat much faster)

and then there's the logistics (fantasy world) of maintaining input...

are you drying you solvent out through any mol sieves or distillation?

in addition to whatever bs gets picked up in the extraction process, moisture from material is always a potential threat.

water + gold = poopsoup.

Drewsif said:

Growers use so much bullshit at flower theres endless possibilities as to why it's tainted. Why does some peoples trim taste like chemicals and producer black hash, and other people's trim taste like weed and produce tan hash?

Click to expand...

procedure.

every "trim" run can be identical to it's corresponding "nug" run if you're doing it half right.

Some info from your questions:

My temp at the condenser coil outlet is 50F. Ambient temps lately have been in the 85-95F range. My temp at bottom of spool (when filling from bottom is 25F, top is 5F. All temps taken with an IR temp gun.

Mobin: While I do not have a mol sieve at my recovery pump, I do have a filter dryer. Mol sieve is my next planned upgrade.

When I am doing my own trim or "live fresh frozen" i am getting that wonderful golden color, consistently. It is when I start to do other peoples trim is where is all goes pear shaped.

Prune: I am intrigued by your comments of under and over cooled. I will try a DI/DNA bath on my inlet coil and see if that makes any difference.

Gray Wolf: When you say, "I typically run at 21C/70F with an upper limit of 29C/85F." Is this the temp of your column or ambient temp?

And for those wondering, waving the dead chicken has not had the results I had hoped for. However, dancing around the extractor naked at midnight has produced better results. This might be correlation and not causation. ;P And tends to annoy the hell out of the neighbors.

Thanks for input, everyone.

I have found buying/running other people's trim to be a waste of time unless you know the person and how they grow and even then it is sketchy. I never get poop soup from my own material but have rarely gotten good shatter running other people's stuff.