Do you have Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome?

Loc Dog · Feb 7, 2017

I heard about this for the first time today, in an Ed Rosenthal article. I think a friends son has it. He is into edibles, has a very high tolerance, and has horrible stomach problems. He has constant nausea, but not vomiting. I will followup if he does have it.

If anyone has actually had this, does smoking make stomach feel better??

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 7, 2017

Loc Dog said:
I heard about this for the first time today, in an Ed Rosenthal article. I think a friends son has it. He is into edibles, has a very high tolerance, and has horrible stomach problems. He has constant nausea, but not vomiting. I will followup if he does have it.

If anyone has actually had this, does smoking make stomach feel better??

No. The more contaminated the cannabis, the quicker the onset of the symptoms. I can smoke barely contaminated cannabis for a week, before my digestion goes so south I can't stand it. One bowl of heavily contaminated and the symptoms hit like a freight train.

I've run across an amazing number of people who seemingly don't get the advanced symptoms. They all suffer from lower back muscle pain, mild nausea and/or slowed digestions though, they're simply unaware of the source of it. It also creeps up on them, so it's even harder for them to put 2 and 2 together.

Took me YEARS to figure it out. I thought it took 3 years, hindsight has pointed out it's been nearly 10 years now, since my first exposure and symptoms in California, Bay Area.

Smoking cannabis with zero azadirachtin brings the most relief.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 7, 2017

GrowingHigher said:
the last 10 years at least 95% I have used was homegrown. I have used neem products on most of my grows.

That's enough of a confirmation for me, neem contains between 200 and 2000ppm of azadirachtin per ounce. I've been interested in testing neem only, just very leery of another poisoning.

Your statement is enough for me to leave it be.

Should you ever get CHS when using neem/aza free cannabis, I'll be greatly interested to hear. So far, everyone I've run across with CHS has been using neem or aza contaminated cannabis.

40AmpstoFreedom · Feb 7, 2017

I get these exact symptoms awful periodically for a decade now. I smoke an 1/8-1/4 a week. I believe mine to be a really bad stomach ulcer though because smoking weed makes it go away or tames it to be bearable. My intestines don't hurt it is 100% my stomach though when it was at its worst it felt like someone was stabbing me in my stomach and caused all sorts of symptoms from fever to hot and cold flashes. I am not a pussy with pain and it had me keeled over at its worst for 2 or 3 days one time moaning like a bitch but it was after I had been actually sick and puked my guts up for days and it then hit me after I was better from flu. Pain will cycle with hunger pangs, but if you eat it is really bad.

May or may not be weed /shrug. I am not really a heavy user imo though. I never bothered going to the doctor s it never seemed worth the money and I really think it just an ulcer. I have to REALLY watch my caffeine intake because that seems to be what sets it off every time or if I had been taking anything with ibuprofen or acetaminophen in it. Coffee can really bring it on though I had it creep up last month lasted 3 weeks but wasn't bad just annoying because it is a constant. I laid off the caffeine products and drinking and boom it leaves after few days every time...Smoke weed throughout cuz it lets me eat and provide a little relief.

The symptoms are the same though and hot showers alleviate it, discovered that on my own. I only get it once or twice a year and when I feel it I completely back off all the things listed above but don't back off and weed and it goes away....

In short I don't think it is the weed. I think it is the weed in combo with other things possibly. Either way it's not really that big of deal to have ever warranted a hospital visit, Maybe a visit to the doctor like I do when I have an extreme flu bug.

FreedomGrower · Feb 7, 2017

I Sprayed one plant with azatrol light week 4 into flower ... The Bubble hash rosin is fine ... but the flower rosin makes me sick ... so lame never spraying anything ever again would rather smoke the mites lol ...

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 7, 2017

40AmpstoFreedom said:
In short I don't think it is the weed. I think it is the weed in combo with other things possibly. Either way it's not really that big of deal to have ever warranted a hospital visit, Maybe a visit to the doctor like I do when I have an extreme flu bug.

You're correct in it being a combination. I firmly believe it's either decreasing beneficial bacteria or increasing bad bacteria, the end result can be bad to horrible.

Yes, the ulcer thing is hot-knife nasty, I was given sucralfate(sp?) and it did a good job at coating. Ibuprofen or acetaminophen turn the heat up on the knife. The coffee causes your body to be acidic, I've had zero issues using caffeine from alkaline sources, just coffee.

The difference is I'm autistic, with physical and neurological pain, and I use significantly more cannabis than you do. I literally use cannabis 24/7. Even the slightest contamination messes me up over time.

I too used to get relief from smoking contaminated cannabis, the pain and tension and digestion issues wouldn't crank up a notch until a few hours after I smoked, difficult to associate the two at first. The cannabis really did help, the buildup of aza over time is what overcomes the relief in the end. (it doesn't go away in a few hours, it takes a few days to leave your system).

I have the biggest issues when my diet has highly refined foods and is too acidic at the time it happens. I believe chicken, with a higher than normal bacteria load, has tipped my system over a few times. (Once it was a chimichanga from a gas station, another time it was a chicken sandwich from a bar).

Benadryl or other anti-histamine and Activated charcoal helps immensely. I recommend 1-2 charcoal pills a day for at least a week.

Loc Dog · Feb 8, 2017

What contaminants cause it, other than azadractin?

Loc Dog · Feb 8, 2017

The people that are sensitive to azadirachtin, does it occur vaping as well as smoking?? A vape uses way less temperature, and may not release it.

aridbud · Feb 8, 2017

Another reason to grow organic....not use toxic sprays...neem/Azadirachtin. Yuck!

Loc Dog · Feb 8, 2017

aridbud said:
Another reason to grow organic....not use toxic sprays...neem/Azadirachtin. Yuck!

I thought that neem was organic/natural.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 8, 2017

Loc Dog said:
I thought that neem was organic/natural.

Organic does not automatically mean "Safe," you're thinking of organic produce.

Organic hydrochloric acid will happily remove the hydrogen from your flesh until you die.
Many "organic" pesticides are harmful to humans.

Facts.

Loc Dog · Feb 8, 2017

I have a package of AzaMax I have never used. Box says "For Organic Production" and "OMRI listed for organic use". I am not suggesting that some people may have allergy to it. I get violently ill from clams, which are not considered dangerous, and some people could die from peanuts.

Do you know if the bud that causes you problems was sprayed with azadirachtin or watered with it. I did not know it can be fed to plants to prevent mites.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 8, 2017

I have tested both spraying and root drench. Cannabis happily sucks it up and keeps it around for harvest time. Yes, the directions (which were not written for cannabis) say it's safe to spray up to the day of harvest. What a travesty.

I would look for outside sources of mites and use the aza on those plants, to help keep your grow structure clean of mite problems. Other than outdoor, non-cannabis use I wouldn't recommend it at all.

aridbud · Feb 8, 2017

Loc Dog said:
I thought that neem was organic/natural.

Just what Douglas said...just because "organic" doesn't mean it's safe. We employ kinder/gentler methods to rid pests/mildew. Garlic, milk, chili water, etc, vs. Neem....toxic even though it's a plant based substance.

Loc Dog · Feb 9, 2017

Has there been any true evaluations of people smoking the same weed for six months with and without azadirachtin, to see if it is definetly the cause??? Ideally it would be blind test. Would think a university would be glad to do such a study, to have a large number of participants. It would have to be of people that have hyperemisis, since most have no reaction to it.

The only reason I am concerned is because I have lost entire grows to broad mites and russet mites/thrips. It is what I know works. Heating rooms to 120F is too hard. Only other thing that worked was Guardian, which was supposed to be natural but had nasty chemicals not listed, abamectin.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 9, 2017

Loc Dog said:
Has there been any true evaluations of people smoking the same weed for six months with and without azadirachtin, to see if it is definetly the cause??? Ideally it would be blind test.

I'm the only one I know of who's done a side by side test with 2 different strains at the same time. I tested spraying a 3ml/gal solution at week 2 of flower and also a root drench at the beginning of flower.

Both root drenched and sprayed was completely unusable by myself. Zero doubt. The clean plants from that run gave me no issues at all. Very cut and dried.

What I'm on the lookout for are people who say they have/had CHS from cannabis without neem or aza. So far I haven't found any, they've all been using contaminated cannabis.

I'd sign up for the study, as long as they paid my bills and gave me the necessary *f'ked* up drugs to keep me sane and out of massive pain. Only if there's a good chance it'll be banned. Seriously wouldn't enjoy it. That's for sure.

Yes, I could pick out the contaminated cannabis in a blind test. No contest. I can even smell it on the cannabis, from the more contaminated stuff my wife has picked up from dispensaries.

lamp-hill · Feb 13, 2017

Douglas.Curtis said:
Yes, I could pick out the contaminated cannabis in a blind test. No contest. I can even smell it on the cannabis, from the more contaminated stuff my wife has picked up from dispensaries.

i am intruiged.
are you able to describe the smell? does it have a sweetness to the smell?

while budtending at a disp. last year one client (man between 35-50) claimed he recognized the "aza" sprayed smell (in many of the 90+ jars of strains available at the shop). he only said that it was a more sickly sweetish aroma. I immediatly tried to make myself keen to recongizing this contaminant smell, and found the smell present in many of the more dense, chemmy/hydro danks with names like nuken, supersilverhaze, mataroblue... etc.

personally i have always preferred O.D. grown for more "clean" euphoric medicinal FX.

on an unrelated aroma related note, i met a dispensary client who claimed to be able to smell CBD, and that it smelled like cherries to him. (?) anyone out there with CBD smelling ability claims? i thought cannabinoids were odorless.

lamp-hill · Feb 13, 2017

this neem/aza CHS controversy has given me second thoughts about neem as a cure-all. azadirachtin is a nonselective insect anti-feedant, antibiotic. if herbicides can poison humans, it's not far fetched to assume insecticidal ingredients would cause digestive/gut/dysbiosis/nausea/crohons/colitis-like symptoms. not to make light of these extremely painful inflammatory gut disorders that are unrelated, just my vocabulary may be ignorant and overlapping, regarding differences between crohns colitis and CHS.

it's just that i couldnt hep to notice many of the most hardcore gut-pained dispensary workers i've worked with were all into eating junkfood(mcdicks), listening to bad "trap"/etc. music, into chemmy indica danks, or far deep into a dabbing habit (using chem grown indica shatter products that probably failed as clean cured flowers). a whole generation of new cannabis users who have never experienced a clean product..... it's an LP illuminati plot conspiracy!!!!!lol!11!!

apparently neem wood/sticks are commonly chewed to a frayed end ad used as toothbrushes in india....

perhaps we should be boycotting "aza", and not neem? or is smoking neem just as bad as neem extract?
see i believe that many credible posters have pointed out already, that this azadirachtin contamination may be the most significant dimension to the CHS mystery than the unanswered question of whether the CBD/THC ratio effects the CHS.

the plot must thin with this one otherwise we can't trust weed grown organically. especially not certified organic. certified is just a tax for going back to the original natural standards. our standards have slipped so low that we're willing to pay certified taxes to zionists for basic standards our grandparents took for granted, all this certified biodynamic halal certified organic kosher bullshit azadirachtin poisoining of young people who just wanted to listen to snoop dogg casually is tripping me out in a bad way

lamp-hill · Feb 13, 2017

so say no to certified organic azadirachtin in inhaled cannabis products. but it's all good if it's edible?

it would be nice to believe that CBD to THC ratios are the key to the mystery. but the azadirachtin contaminated rabbit hole... is a deeper mystery. spoken of in hushed whispers.

"this bud has been sprayed i can smell it"

i gave myself mild CHS overdoing the +1g/day habit while consuming exclusively dispensary supplied DARKgreymarket local flowers , many with a sickly sweet smell that i originally thought was just "supersilverhaze like" and at the time i was certain that it had never happened to me before when i had naturalclean grown access. later, and espeically now, i am convinced i overdosed on sprayed bud, to achieve CHS. i was also consuming shatter pills orally, and fruit flavoured 100mg active beverages, all which were made from UNKNOWN sources with shady mg dose claims that seemed inconsistent.
it's scary to think you could be throwing up in a hospital after repeatedly overdosing on a growing additive that's certified organic. that's actually fucking bullshit actually. certified organic is starting more and more to appear as a bullshit tax on nature grown using monsanto allowed organicides that have effects similar to other poisons like glyphosates, which have the inevitable effect of poisoining populations consuming the staple foods grown using those chemicals. glyphosate/round-up has been implicated in cases of serious gut disorders that many assume to be "gluten-intolerance" or "maybe crons or MS(or was it fibromyalgia?)"

sorry for the uncontrollable rant

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 13, 2017

lamp-hill said:
i am intruiged.
are you able to describe the smell? does it have a sweetness to the smell?

It smells like a bottle of azamax/azatrol. Yes, it's kinda sweet. Tough to describe without it being in front of me. I know I can recognize it when it's applied heavily enough or close enough to harvest.

lamp-hill said:
while budtending at a disp. last year one client (man between 35-50) claimed he recognized the "aza" sprayed smell (in many of the 90+ jars of strains available at the shop). he only said that it was a more sickly sweetish aroma. I immediatly tried to make myself keen to recongizing this contaminant smell, and found the smell present in many of the more dense, chemmy/hydro danks with names like nuken, supersilverhaze, mataroblue... etc.

Aza is supposed to break down over time and through exposure to light. It makes sense to me the denser nugs would protect the inner parts of the buds from it breaking down as quickly.

lamp-hill said:
so say no to certified organic azadirachtin in inhaled cannabis products. but it's all good if it's edible?

Nope, I've made edibles from contaminated cannabis and it affects me the same. Even more so due (I'm sure) to it being much more concentrated.

lamp-hill said:
it would be nice to believe that CBD to THC ratios are the key to the mystery. but the azadirachtin contaminated rabbit hole... is a deeper mystery. spoken of in hushed whispers.

"this bud has been sprayed i can smell it"

That would actually be a disaster, at least we can stop spraying aza. Were it CBD/THC ratios, it would mean cannabis itself has problems for animals. Very not good.

lamp-hill said:
i gave myself mild CHS overdoing the +1g/day habit while consuming exclusively dispensary supplied DARKgreymarket local flowers , many with a sickly sweet smell that i originally thought was just "supersilverhaze like" and at the time i was certain that it had never happened to me before when i had naturalclean grown access. later, and espeically now, i am convinced i overdosed on sprayed bud, to achieve CHS. i was also consuming shatter pills orally, and fruit flavoured 100mg active beverages, all which were made from UNKNOWN sources with shady mg dose claims that seemed inconsistent.

It's all the unknown sources which muddle up the information stream. I'm so happy prohibition is dropping across the states, more and more often people are able to get a full accounting of exactly what is in/on the cannabis they're getting.

lamp-hill said:
it's scary to think you could be throwing up in a hospital after repeatedly overdosing on a growing additive that's certified organic. that's actually fucking bullshit actually.

Totally agree on this point. I've spent time throwing up in hospitals and wanting a shower. These days I only hear the ICK, when people say their cannabis is all organick. Shouldn't be that way.

lamp-hill said:
certified organic is starting more and more to appear as a bullshit tax on nature grown using monsanto allowed organicides that have effects similar to other poisons like glyphosates, which have the inevitable effect of poisoining populations consuming the staple foods grown using those chemicals. glyphosate/round-up has been implicated in cases of serious gut disorders that many assume to be "gluten-intolerance" or "maybe crons or MS(or was it fibromyalgia?)"

sorry for the uncontrollable rant

The glyphosate is new to me as being similar in issues. I know for a fact none of the cannabis I grew (which caused me issues) was grown with glyphosate. It would not surprise me to find glyphosate does cause issues of it's own. As for the rant, I totally understand. Anyone who's spent time with this issue knows how badly it interferes with the enjoyment of life. F'ing rude, really.

Do you have Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome?

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