Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

FoCo(No.Co) · Feb 27, 2010

milehighmedical said:
I'm off to get some botanigard as soon as I can. Although I imagine it may not be available in Fort Collins since you picked up an alternative yourself. I hope what you're trying is working well, as it could be my last resort.

Yea they didn't have Botanigard at Way to Grow and nobody else has an inventory like them so I didnt even bother looking elsewhere.

CovertCrops said:
FO.CO- how is the spectracide working?

It worked. All my root dwellers are dead. All my leaf crawlers are dead. The only ones that I've seen alive are a few fliers that escaped the application. I noticed one of the fliers returned to the coco and died after crawling around(I was over medicated, just sitting there looking for bugs, lol), so the gamma is still working. My plants were totally unaffected by it, I am quite convinced that they are growing faster already.

CovertCrops said:
To further help identify root aphid infestation here is a photo of the waxy residue they leave behind. The infestation is pretty advanced by this point.
I hope this helps some of you confirm the enemy. Good luck.

Dude! Great call! I've got this residue all over the place and I didnt even stop to think that it might be from the aphids!

*mr.mike* · Feb 27, 2010

I had these bugs before. I used cipermetrin at quarter strength in watering once the third or fourth set of leaves show, and then right after they show sex. It kills anything with legs that lives in my pots. I then use it as a spray, and a repeat soil drench once sex is shown. I would figure a systemic like neem would stop them too, but I don't know about that one.

humble1 said:
...real analysis will show you that not only is MG radioactive but without a significant flush you will be ingesting a lot of unnecessary nutrients.
....One of my Horticulture instructors guessed at the real reason I was in his class and told me to stay away from anything with a gamma-beta-alpha-omicron- anything greek in the name...
.02

Yup, MG is indeed radioactive, as are ALL (even organic, it's true!) fertilizers. Your organic ferts have the exact same ratios of isotopes as MG, or even Schultz, etc... it's the way of nature. The salts are just concentrated in the "unnatural stuff." Think of how much "other stuff" you're actually putting in your dirt and plants.

As for "stay away from anything greek"... utter crap, nothing more. Horticultural scientists come up with this stuff and decide if it works, or not. IUPAC nomenclature is no way to blindly judge a molecule

bali_man said:
I don't have any experience using peppers as insect control , but I recently was gifted some savina habenero, scotch bonnet, and some other peppers that I forgot, but I've never had anything this hot. He also has access to pure capsaicin (10,000,000 scoville +). Now I'm wondering can this be used as some sort of "pepper spray" to possibly blind or physically damage root alpids?
-bm

I like to grow habaneros and bhut jolokia. Aphids, mites and other bugs LOVE to eat the peppers. Seems that they lack a capsaicin receptor (as well as a THC receptor). If you look at some of the birdfeeds, capsaicin is added to keep away squirrels and other mammals. Birds and bugs are not affected. I can actually completely masticate (alone or in group!) and swallow an entire jolokia without crying, screaming, or jumping... until it's on it's way out.

king acehole · Feb 27, 2010

Thanks again FoCo!

Thanks again FoCo!

I too thought I was battling gnats for the last 6 months or so. Could not defeat them with BT, diatomaceous earth, no-pest strips, neem. I noticed the crawly ones only recently, thinking they were a different pest. I've had mag deficiency, yellowing, crispy leaves, low yields, low vigor on at least 25% of my plants. Yet didn't think they were related to what I thought was relatively harmless nuisance...

I gave up hope on defeating them, just contain them, I thought, winning is impossible.
I killed my mothers and started over from seed, sterilized everything, yet they returned. They haven't completely infested yet... do not want to go there again. Knocking dead bodies and shit specks off of buds with a bamboo skewer is not my idea of fun.

Thanks to spleebale for this thread and super thanks to FoCo! Yesterday morning I applied Spectracide @ 7.5ml/gal(per FoCo's suggestion) to ph'd water and applied as a soil drench to my dried-out coco hempy buckets. Instant death motherfuckers!!! :jump:

Flyers, crawlers, they touch this stuff and it's over fast. At 7.5ml/gal it works and there is almost no smell, Spectracide undiluted has a very strong paint thinner type smell.

Within a few hours all of the plants looked noticeably happier, more perky and not just because I had let the coco dry. Today they are even happier, taller, perkier. The two most sickly plants are the most improved. :dance013:

This shit works and it's $10 at Lowe's. I'm really happy I didn't try some of the $50-$150 pesticides that others are recommending that may or may not work.

By the way, if you have lots of fliers, I've had great success trapping them with masking/cello/transparent packing tape wrapped around the base of the hood. This works well around the top edge of pots too and keeps those fuckers from sticking to the buds.

happy growing,

king acehole

GeorgeSmiley · Feb 27, 2010

king acehole said:
By the way, if you have lots of fliers, I've had great success trapping them with masking/cello/transparent packing tape wrapped around the base of the hood. This works well around the top edge of pots too and keeps those fuckers from sticking to the buds.

happy growing,

king acehole

Putting it around the hood is an awesome idea... k+

Bud Spleefman · Feb 27, 2010

I am happy to report that the Bayer Tree & Shrub liquid w/ 1.47% Imid works well in DWC when used at a rate of 2 ml per gallon. I filled my whole system all the way to the tops of the buckets with this mix and the buckets are filled with dead floating Aphids and my plants look great. Except for a couple that were too far gone. They look the same. Half dead! All the rest are Praying for the Sky. I used the stuff with plain water and no nutes, and I'm going to let them soak for 24 hours, then dump and go back to my regular nute schedule.

I bought the stuff at Home Depot, was less than 20 bucks.

Thanks to whoever discoved this one!

FoCo(No.Co) · Feb 28, 2010

OK, SO WE"VE KILLED OUR BUGS...

OK, SO WE"VE KILLED OUR BUGS...

...NOW HOW DO WE REPAIR OUR DAMAGED ROOTS?

I have found that these products help--->
-Superthrive(rooting hormone and b vitamins)
-Hygrozyme(enzymes that help prevent roots from rotting)
-Kelp/Alfalfa(contain plant 'steroids' for vigorous growth)

Anyone else know of anything that helps root health? I am convinced that the use of these three products is the only thing that kept my mature plants truckin' through months of heavy infestation.

CovertCrops · Feb 28, 2010

Rhizotonic is incredible for roots. Try it, the results speak for themselves.

HIGHGROOVE · Feb 28, 2010

hello community i believe i have the gnats...lets get your ideas...ok what i was told and seemed right on was just too keep some of my clones alive at the time i used some old dirt.....and thats what caused it? then transferred them to coco and ahve had them ever since my issue is i chop down later this week anything i can do?

Fat J · Mar 1, 2010

Hey FoCo -> I use the House&gardens roox excellurator - its kinda pricey but it is a really effective product. I use it with tap water in my cheezy cloner and i get roots in 4 days, its the best root regenerator/booster ive found.

High -> I'm currently going the pyrethrin route, many ppl here have had good success with Imidachlorpid or something (forget how to spell it but its in bayer tree&shrub) I would only personally reccomend the imid for plants in veg that are still a way from finishing as imid is systemic. Also, read further up in the thread, the ppl who say that going to clone and sterilizing is the only way 2 cure it are ultimately right. they will keep coming back no matter what you do unitl u cut clones, sterilize them, cut down all ur plants and sterilize with bleach or something similar. The treatments are only containment measures.

Fat J · Mar 1, 2010

Oh and if ur harvesting in a week, i wouldnt reccomend any of these chems - maybe no pest strips to stop the fliers and cut back watering as much as possible...

Fat J · Mar 1, 2010

Doh, too many posts, but hey High - make sure you know what bug you have before starting the battle, what works well on some things is useless on othere, if you have gnats ur lucky and gnatrol will kill em.... if you have root aphids, you're fucked. look at the roots under a 30x+ loupe and see if you see tiny clear aphid lookin bugs crawlin around, if you do and they have little spines on their backs (2 spines) then you have phylloxera and im sorry but ur fucked...

FoCo(No.Co) · Mar 1, 2010

CovertCrops said:
Rhizotonic is incredible for roots. Try it, the results speak for themselves.

Rizotonic is on my wishlist, but I remember asking how much the entire Canna line costs and I really dont think any nutrient line is worth that much. Do you know what the smallest bottle of Rhizo goes for? Would it be worth using if I've already go the little white hairs on my roots?

Fat J said:
Hey FoCo -> I use the House&gardens roox excellurator - its kinda pricey but it is a really effective product. I use it with tap water in my cheezy cloner and i get roots in 4 days, its the best root regenerator/booster ive found.

Do you know whats in it? How much is pricey?

bergerbuddy · Mar 1, 2010

FoCo(No.Co) said:
Rizotonic is on my wishlist, but I remember asking how much the entire Canna line costs and I really dont think any nutrient line is worth that much. Do you know what the smallest bottle of Rhizo goes for? Would it be worth using if I've already go the little white hairs on my roots?

Do you know whats in it? How much is pricey?

Smallest bottle of Rizo that i've seen is 1 ltr.. and goes for around 80 u.s.d... you might find it cheaper on the net.. i have not looked..

It is wonderful stuff however..... I have not used the HG but would if I could find it... heard good things about it too.. but used rizo for several years and wouldn't want to have to grow without it

Yes4Prop215 · Mar 1, 2010

had a problem with these little fuckers too. i remember on my old flood trays i would find hundreds of dead fuckers after i did neem oil dumps.

prevention is really hard, because no matter what you do theres always gonna be like 2 or3 tht survive and lay eggs.

the best shit is to just go on with your grow, harvest, then clean house super tough before the next round...

smokesalot420 · Mar 1, 2010

I have an infestation this year too..... Seeing more and more everyday so I'm glad I started treating already. I am using Azamax at medium dosage as a root drench until I can get some Botanigard. Also doing Pyrethrum Bombs every 2 weeks to eliminate flyers. I will post my results with the Azamax.

Just as last year I have green and black aphids, some winged black aphids as well (I believe it is the same one that changes color during it's cycle). I'm taking clones of my veg plants in case my treatments kill them or fail.

These things are all over Nor Cal so if you live in this area (as I do) be ready if you haven't noticed them already.... FWIW, looking at my notes from last year it was around this time that the first wave came out!

milehighmedical · Mar 1, 2010

ourcee · Mar 1, 2010

spleebale said:
If you have root aphids or have had root aphids, please let us know the following:

A)How bad was your infestation and what effects have you observed in your plants/grow?

not very bad, had some crawlies on plugs with clones, did have some mothers have slower/stunted growth, seemed susceptible to disease a bit more.

B)Have you grown the same way before with success or with the same problems? Have you grown a different way before with success or the same problems?

different.

I microwave everything I buy (media) before using.

C)Have you treated them before (if so, how and what were your results/conclusions)

I had them on rooter plugs, I assume I had them in my rockwool drip slabs for mothers as well, I used bayer tree and shrub, noticed a burn on plants that got a heavy dose of it, however they DID recover and grow normally from then on. I haven't seen them since however I also discared all remaining media and very thoroughly cleaned my entire grow.

D)What type of medium/nutrients and what type of setup (hand water, ebb/flow etc)

I WAS using rockwool drip slabs when I had the problem, however I noticed it first on my rapid rooters with clones.

now I use coco/perlite with organic nutes in smart pots and have not seen any root aphids since I switched media/cleaned very well.

If you do not have root aphids but have some sort of nutrient lockout/nutrient deficiency/toxic salt buildup, please let us know:

A)What are your symptoms?
B)What is your medium/nutrient regimen/setup (watering etc)?
C)Have you grown the same way before with success or the same problems? Have you grown a different way with success or the same problems?

Thanks!
-WB

no nute issues that i know of, plants now (in coco/perlite) got a weak dose of nutes one week and slightly yellowed, however other than a slight shortage of nutes, no problems, no root aphids, being anal about sterilizing any incoming ANYTHING has saved me from a reinfestation.

FoCo(No.Co) · Mar 1, 2010

milehighmedical said:
I just used some Azamax today. I'm aware that it kills the nematodes too but I don't have time to see if the nematodes work. Right now I'm watching them crawl all over the heavily azamax drenched soil, happy as ever. It doesn't seem to bother them. The pyrethrum doesn't seem to bother them either. There's suddenly a shit load of them, ever since I started trying to treat them. The symptoms on the plant just started kicking in really hard too.

You need the power of real chemicals.

milehighmedical · Mar 1, 2010

Greenmopho · Mar 1, 2010

I've battled phylloxera before, got 'em from SR-71 ! They were the black root aphids, I discovered em on the roots coming out of my 6" RW cubes, before they reached the flying stage. The plants were still in early veg, so I decided to risk it and use a systemic cure. I used the Bayer Tree & Shrub, right in my F/D tray res, at 1/2 the recommended strength, flooded em for 1 hour, drained, cleaned my res with bleach, and flooded em again with pH'd water to rinse em. I also used a hose to do my best to rinse all the eggs and dead bugs and whatever else from the f/d tray. After the rinse, I saw tons of dead bugs floating, and you could see the little larvae and eggs in the water. I let the R/W drain after that for 2 days. The plants looked better than ever immediately after, and never seemed to have gotten stressed by the treatment. The aphids never came back, and the clones taken were great. Its pretty much a rule for me when getting new clones to do a Azatrol dunk for the whole clone now. I haven't had to use the Bayer Tree & Shrub again, although I did treat preventatively on a second batch of clones I purchased somewhere else right after the SR-71 incident, just in case, at only 1/4 of the recommended strength. I now have a strong habit of inspecting my roots on a daily basis (touching 'em even, I know your not supposed to). I also check my water after nute changes for little larvae or eggs (they tend to float or stick to the surface, and can look like little dust particles). I would prefer not to have to use anything systemic, if I can avoid it, but it really will knock them out!

Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

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