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Kalyseeds - polyploid strains

B

Billyn

Member
Kalyseeds form polyploid varieties. I'm afraid I'm going to ruin my genetics. When a polyploid crosses with a diploid, it produces seeds, but what ploidy will these seeds be? When you read about polyploidy in plants, within one plant species, when a population multiplies chromosome sets, it is infertile with diploids - this is how new species are created. And people didn't even know it for a long time until they started examining DNA.

For example, Tripleurospermum inodorum occurs as diploid (2n = 2x = 18) or tetraploid (2n = 4x = 36), sometimes as their triploid hybrid (2n = 3x = 27) which is usually infertile. So it seems to me that Tetraploids and diploids probably can't exchange genes as if they were two different species. But I don't want this to take place in my breeding program. (No matter how important)

However, the resulting triploids often have a reason
unbalanced number of chromosomes reduced viability and also higher infertility rates.
But if they maintain a certain degree of fertility, when are they
able to produce euploid (n, 2n or 3n) gametes, they can subsequently cross-cross with diploid or other triploid individuals to produce tetraploid progeny.
This process, in which the transition from diploidy to tetraploidy takes place, is
called a "triploid bridge"

Can anyone help me explain what ploidy is for Kalyseeds strains? And what does this mean for small breeders and their bred lines if they are contaminated with polyploid pollen? Thank you very much.
 
B

Billyn

Member
from their website ... Poliploied Swag variegated and poliploied Skinny variegated ... are poliploied and produce very few seeds, but resins of unique quality ..
If they reproduce among themselves, they produce only a few seeds.
When crossing with diploid varieties, the seed yield is normal... (Ok, when they cross with a diploid they produce seeds normally, but what are these seeds?)
 
Oregonism

Oregonism

Active member
Billyn said:
Kalyseeds form polyploid varieties. I'm afraid I'm going to ruin my genetics. When a polyploid crosses with a diploid, it produces seeds, but what ploidy will these seeds be? When you read about polyploidy in plants, within one plant species, when a population multiplies chromosome sets, it is infertile with diploids - this is how new species are created. And people didn't even know it for a long time until they started examining DNA.

For example, Tripleurospermum inodorum occurs as diploid (2n = 2x = 18) or tetraploid (2n = 4x = 36), sometimes as their triploid hybrid (2n = 3x = 27) which is usually infertile. So it seems to me that Tetraploids and diploids probably can't exchange genes as if they were two different species. But I don't want this to take place in my breeding program. (No matter how important)

However, the resulting triploids often have a reason
unbalanced number of chromosomes reduced viability and also higher infertility rates.
But if they maintain a certain degree of fertility, when are they
able to produce euploid (n, 2n or 3n) gametes, they can subsequently cross-cross with diploid or other triploid individuals to produce tetraploid progeny.
This process, in which the transition from diploidy to tetraploidy takes place, is
called a "triploid bridge"

Can anyone help me explain what ploidy is for Kalyseeds strains? And what does this mean for small breeders and their bred lines if they are contaminated with polyploid pollen? Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

I dont want to detract from your first three or 4 questions, its good...... but can we confirm polyploidy? Have the seeds been radiated or colchine treated? Or is this a natural mutation or sport?
Were they two triploids "bred" together or just a tetra times a diploid? Couldnt you reverse a triploid using current diploid reversal practices?

Do we even know what kind of phenotypes are produced from polyploidy? 99% of everything I have seen as polyploidy as phenotype is not confirmed as polyploidal and just has cool "tops". Aka the eyes makes bad genotype detectors and I am skeptical without seeing a lab report that will test this type of phenomenon.


....
Whats the reason that seedless varieties of a few commercial veggies are usually triploids [ thompson grapes, watermelon, squash ] ? Is is just seedlessness or does the extra n, help to crank out weak progeny with a few hudden gems....
Guess I will have to read up more on polyploidal theory, things like Arabica are intersting, something like 12n and with a tiny genome at least compared to cannabis, a seemingly "simpler", genetically, organism, that has a much larger expression of diversity from 2n. Always an intersting topic.

Hope more will chime in!

Ps more thoughts.... I am defintely interested if things like a gynoecious/andrecious population, is or isnt possible in polyploidy offspring and if / how often haploid offspring may also occur.....
 
alpo

alpo

Active member
when tetraploids are crossed with diploids; the resulting seed carries 2 copies of chromosomes from the tetraploid parent and 1 set from the diploid parent.
 
D

djonkoman

Active member
Veteran
general rule is that even ploidies(2n=diploid, 4n=tetraploid, etc) are fine with regards to fertilitity.

problems come when you've got an uneven number like triplod(3n), but also higher uneven ploidies, like pentaploid(5n). because with uneven ploidy, you dont have a nice even seperation during meiosis, so you could get gametes with an extra copy of one chromosome or other issues like that.

crossing 2 plants that both have even, but different, ploidy can result in uneven ploidy. like tetraploid x diploid = triploid.

that said, I believe kalyseeds descriptions should be taken with a bag of salt. I think they're just breeding with the duckfoot mutation + a few others like that, I don't believe any of that hops hybrid crap for example.
and similarly, I don't believe any polyploidy is involved in kalyseeds strains.

you could visually check it though, if it's polyploid you should be able to see it in the stomata(bigger and fewer).

btw, speaking about the use of triploids, it is indeed a common trick to make seedless fruits. the triploid will get pollinated, start making seeds, but then they abort due to the ploidy problems. in some plant species(but not every one) the fruit then continuees to form despite the seeds in it being aborted.
that's why you still often find small, underdeveloped seeds in seedless fruits.
so it might not be such a suitable technique for seedless weed, depending on how it exactly works out in cannabis, but it might still just lead to buds full of immature seeds.
 
B

Billyn

Member
I just bought their seeds, I wanted to use them to improve my duckfoot.. I just play with it, but I quite care about my line. If I got polyploids there, there would be a lot of unnecessary extra work.. think it would make a big mess. So I prefer not to use the seeds for breeding, it's a shame, but I really don't want to cause myself other unnecessary worries. I don't think it's that difficult to create polyploids(And in this case, I'd rather trust Kalyseeds) it's not worth the risk.
 
romanoweed

romanoweed

Well-known member
any proove they are scams?
as i understand it , they sell one strain wich is hops, just hops but wich contains thc.

i read before hops can contain cbd, so, could be true..
but not know

also, if you look how many crazy other breeds he offers, wich are all mutated cannabis strains, then i see he has alot of effort into it/OR has gotten those strains and therefore zero effort?

thats what i got from researche
 
Nordic Stoner

Nordic Stoner

Member
do polyploidy plants really have more thc? does anyone have first hand experience in smoking these plants? Sorry kind of off topic.
 
C

clearheaded

Active member
yes proof is the pictures of flowering hops is not cannabis on there site.. I assure u they are scams. save ur money for reputable breeders. gorilla seeds is a good start ;) bodhi, female seeds, philosophers seeds, ACE, KARMA, all good places to look..yes lots of others claim have bud that survives winter and comes back year after year or yeild 2x normal all are scammers aswell..
 
romanoweed

romanoweed

Well-known member
that doesent act as proof for a scamto sell hops and place a picture of hops.?

yes, maxplankinstitute (wellknown university) calims by grafting genetic is transferred , wich was seen as wishfull dream before, now they claim it. So they are scammers too? scammer university?

so again to clarify: he doesent seem to sell a cross between hops and canna, he seems to sell hops witch naturally has thc. still he has states to have crossed hops ones.. And be honest he wasnt the first one, i sporadically seen a seed-picture of hops x canabis from a random other person, or was it same guy. I think not many people are into crossing different pecies, that makes it a very unshure field, and therefore alot discoveries to be made. its no news that humans managed to cross different animals and stuff such as horse and donkey..
 
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