What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Twisted Leaves on new growth, need help

bizarro517

New member
Hey all, newer grower here, having some issues with the plants. the tacoing seems to have started once I changed them from florescent to metal halide. first thought was heat or light intensity, so temps had never gone above 80, but the MH was rather close at first. I am in a sealer room running CO2. I am using foxfarm Grow Big, on their first watering in 5 gal pots I did 3 teaspoons per gallon, then about 10 days later they got 2 teaspoons a gallon (which was on 12/18/18). After the first big feed, the leaves were exhibiting twisting/taco-ing and sort of blistering (which i thought was light intensity for a bit) since then ive been giving them regular h2o, which i used ph test kit to bring the ph down a bit, my normal h2o seems to be right around ph7. They were dry this morning so they just received 2 gallons of straight RO water (first time), hence the droopy leaves in the pictures. As you can see, new growth is rather twisty and tacoish.





Also, this is my 4th grow in this room, others have turned out fine not PHing the water and using the same type room setup. all runs have been a different strain. the most recent run, last winter, apparently we had broad mites. since then ive had no plant material in the building for 8 months, disinfected, bleached and pesticides on everything and obviously clean everything a few more times with bleach. also once i started these from seed, a few weeks in, i used a few cycles of the N. Californicus predatory mites that are supposed to seek broads and kill them. I see no visible signs of eggs on leaves under a 150x scope, and the plants arent acting the same as i remember with broads.


I'd love some input from you guys here, much thanks and appreciation!





[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How long has this problem been going on? 4 weeks
What STRAIN are you growing? Ethos genetics Chem OG
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants? 8 weeks
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
same type (pro mix mx bx), just upped into ten gal on january 2
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? same
How Tall are the plants? 2-3 feet
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? vegetative
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
10 gallon
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) promix mx bx
What brand Nutrient's are you using? foxfarm
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* 3 teaspoon per gallon
How often are you feeding? currently not feeding for 2 weeks
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
no meter
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? no meter
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? no meter
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
when pots are light
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? 12/18
What size bulb are you using? 1000 watt MH at first, past few days are two HPS, adjustable ballast, using 75%
How old is your bulbs? 2 runs
What is the distance to the canopy? 2 feet
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 58-70%
What is the canopy temperature? max 82, min 72 at night
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 82-72 Day/night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) sealed room with CO2
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? one fan for lights pulls cold air in and pushes the warm air out of the room, none of this air is for the room, just to cool lights. 6" fan with scrubber circulating in room. have an auxiliary 4" fan hooked to a thermostat to pull air out incase of overheat. two fans mounted on wall blowing about 2 feet above canopy.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? no over top
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? dries slowly
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
as of 1/8 using RO water
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) no meter
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen) no meter
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? under 150x I see nothing
[/FONT]
 

Attachments

  • 20190108_111821.jpg
    20190108_111821.jpg
    83.5 KB · Views: 18
  • 20190108_111758.jpg
    20190108_111758.jpg
    79.5 KB · Views: 18
  • 20190108_111801.jpg
    20190108_111801.jpg
    73.5 KB · Views: 18
  • 20190108_111809.jpg
    20190108_111809.jpg
    61 KB · Views: 18
  • 20190108_111926.jpg
    20190108_111926.jpg
    58.5 KB · Views: 18
  • 20181017_175217.jpg
    20181017_175217.jpg
    63.5 KB · Views: 20
  • 20190108_111937.jpg
    20190108_111937.jpg
    72.4 KB · Views: 20

eebbnflow

Member
10 gallon pot ? That’s huge imo unless you have a 5 footer ,did you have a white root bound root ball before transplanting ? Is it just one plant ?
 

eebbnflow

Member
I would invest in a ph meter if you can , start there . Second invest in a tds meter . Both are needed here if you are serious
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
Looks like you're watering them when they're already over-watered

edit: actually, while I can see some heavy drop and recent watering, I also see they have been going dry. Is it only today you went to RO water?
 

bizarro517

New member
They weren't totally rootbound when I transplanted, but they definitely had a rootball covering the entire bottom and at least half way up of the 5gal pot. by the time they're actually finished that whole 10 gallon pot will be almost rootbound, thats how all my other runs have ended.
 

bizarro517

New member
I feel like i did overwater them a few weeks ago, and probably overfed also, but these pics were 6 days after they went into the 10 gallon pots and i only gave them a gallon of straight h2o 6 days ago. they were really dry this morning. I have 6 chem OG plants, all exhibiting the same symptoms. The plant in the pics is one plant, and it is the one that looks the worst in my opinion.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
I have done a total turn around on this one. I think your having calcium issues from a lack of watering. The small leaves, the irregular shape, canoe shape, it can all be calcium related. Calcium is just washed along within a plant, so while your humidity is good, I look to the roots. After watering, your mix is still contracted away from the sides of the pot. There is a crack there. Also dry areas on the surface. And you saw a huge foliage drop as the RO went straight through the dry open medium to the roots. That RO drop isn't something I have seen in soil before, but is quite possible if it's dry enough to let the water just run off.


It's all I got anyway.. weigh them, and weigh that much volume of compost, straight from the bag. The stuff in the bag is generally as dry as you ever want to go.
 

bizarro517

New member
The droop of the leaves started yesterday as they began to dry out since id had the two lights going and the temp up about 4 degrees for the previous two days. My RO machine showed up yesterday and it took me like 15 solid hours to gather all the water, so i knew this plant needed water, but i wanted it to be RO water. before that it was one MH and my temps were like 72 day time and 64 at night. lights are 18/6 for now, dont want to flip until this is fixed or on its way to fixed. but as of past two days its been 82/72 day/night, and they seemed to like that as i feel they began to transpire easier, the humidity climbed without the humidifier on.
 

bizarro517

New member
As of a day and a half of the RO water now i'm seeing a more prominent calcium issue? Based on what f-e said and Checking through the sick plants guide that's what i can devise the rust spots on the leaves are. some of the leaf twist seems to have traded itself for the droop now. any ideas to start me in the right direction?

I'm going to be much more sensitive to water times and weights of the pots going forward obviously. but now i've just gave myself this new issue, presumable because they weren't fed yesterday.
thanks again.
 

Attachments

  • 20190109_180933.jpg
    20190109_180933.jpg
    58.4 KB · Views: 19
  • 20190109_180948.jpg
    20190109_180948.jpg
    72.5 KB · Views: 17
  • 20190109_183214.jpg
    20190109_183214.jpg
    100.8 KB · Views: 23
  • 20190109_183218.jpg
    20190109_183218.jpg
    85.5 KB · Views: 19

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
I don't think that's dry droop. Maybe it was before you watered, but that looks more like over watering, which is also a sign of RO use. I never see it spoke about, but have done enough trials to recognise it.

I always add a token amount of feed to RO water. Others mix some tap water. You could think about cal/mag if you have spotting (I missed that)

If you have been really dry, it may of effected your potting mix. A few days being damp might be needed before it comes good again. The calcium is there. I just think it was in a dry form, and your plants sucked up clean water almost uncontrollably. I don't really know the mechanisms at play, but the result is familiar.

Watering correctly should fix it. Not overnight, but soon enough. Stop using neat RO and give them a damn good wet. Wait half hour so your absolutely sure it's all soaked through. Then water till run-off again. Cal/mag this once is your call. I would wait to see if the substrate can provide it, before adding more than might be too much long term
 

bizarro517

New member
Thanks again for chiming in f-e.
my point of the RO was that I thought i overfed them, so i wanted some clean water to flush them out if you will. I have foxfarm cal-mag, are you advising I water them again now with some cal-mag, or are you saying wait for it to dry out some more again and then administer some cal-mag? I also have a bluelabs ph/ec meter coming as early as Monday.



I'm honestly worried this may be Broads again, as i stated i do not see any eggs, but this could also be due to inexperience in looking for them.
 

bsgospel

Bat Macumba
I grow some Ethos gear and I see this a lot. Good comparison for both us. I notice in transitions some real issues that look like yours. I think it's the light itself and an issue with calcium and phosphorus. If you repeat the experiment you may see something similar. If it's anything like mine, it will grow out of it but it's painful to look at. Transplant first, wait a time- then switch lights (would be my recommendation) and be aware that a healthy amount of calcium and P should be a part of these plants.
 

bizarro517

New member
Well that's reassuring bsgospel. Thanks for the information. 3 evenings ago i turned down my ballasts again and put a hot shots pest strip in the room and they're actually looking better, although the pots are still super heavy like they haven't been using the RO water. The overall look of the leaves is better in my opinion.


Obviously they still have all the markings from the cal problems. But the leaves are also fading out and the top of the stem (newest growth area) is a bit purple, not sure if you can see in the picture, maybe time for a nice even feeding when they dry out?
 

Attachments

  • 20190112_165138.jpg
    20190112_165138.jpg
    82 KB · Views: 18
  • 20190112_165150.jpg
    20190112_165150.jpg
    55.3 KB · Views: 20
  • 1-12-19.jpg
    1-12-19.jpg
    94.6 KB · Views: 21

bsgospel

Bat Macumba
There's a conflict- feeding now may have nothing to do with a light issue. And it makes me wonder if Ethos is breeding with recessive genes. Look in my albums under business. The bud finishes amazing but there are simply periods that suck to look at.

We have to talk about the feed, the timing, the overcoming of transition, the age- we're face to face with a holistic approach. You may have 1:4 or 4:4 problems. I wish I could help more. I lean towards genetics but ... The bud is so worth it...I don't want to steer people away from them.
 

bsgospel

Bat Macumba
All that to say: dry down yes, calcium yes- you still may not see the recovery you hope for. It could be you have a finicky plant. Don't lose hope. Ethos may be bizarre but your wattage should produce.
 

bizarro517

New member
That Black fire looks amazing! and i did notice a few twisted leaves here and there in those pictures.



on the 3rd of January they got a light feeding like 2 teaspoons tiger bloom per 3 gallons h2o and 1 teaspoon grow big. And they were transplanted into the ten gallon pots the day before (january 2). they werent looking too good before i transplanted them either, which is where i may have overfed and overwatered them.
 

Sign

Member
I think you're just root bound man, every time what is happening to you happens to me it's because it's root bound but I'm no expert. But the whole wilty thing followed by calcium def is a dead ringer for that to me.

I also grow in pro mix, maybe it's something that shows up in that medium with that issue. Transplanting after switch to flower keeps that bad juju away for me at least.
 

bizarro517

New member
They've only been in these ten gallon pots for 10-11 days now, there's no way that they can be root-bound that fast, right? as for in the 5 gallon pots beforehand, quite possible. they were pretty solid at transplant, but there was a decent amount of loose soil on the top side of the pot.
 

bizarro517

New member
Just as an overall view, I got in this morning before lights on so I could get some pictures under normal light. here is how they look now and some of the abnormalities that I've seen throughout veg.



I'm considering removing some of the damaged leaves and just some all around clean up of the plants today, removing some of the lower fan leaves and such. good idea, yes or no?
 

Attachments

  • 20190113_100026.jpg
    20190113_100026.jpg
    93.3 KB · Views: 16
  • 20190113_100000.jpg
    20190113_100000.jpg
    68.6 KB · Views: 16
  • 20190113_095944.jpg
    20190113_095944.jpg
    91.2 KB · Views: 20
  • 20190113_095934.jpg
    20190113_095934.jpg
    112 KB · Views: 16
  • 20190113_095928.jpg
    20190113_095928.jpg
    74.7 KB · Views: 16
  • 20190113_100053.jpg
    20190113_100053.jpg
    74.9 KB · Views: 16
  • 20190113_100124.jpg
    20190113_100124.jpg
    101.9 KB · Views: 18
  • 20190113_100132.jpg
    20190113_100132.jpg
    95.8 KB · Views: 16
  • 20190113_100215.jpg
    20190113_100215.jpg
    68 KB · Views: 20
  • 20190113_100348.jpg
    20190113_100348.jpg
    94.2 KB · Views: 20

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top