Hollow Stems?

I may end up regretting posting in this thread, but I’m really surprised that no one mentioned that the pith is what PAPER is made from...hard to imagine that a random boron deficiency could be so widespread that the ancient world was kept in paper because of it.

Frankly, as much as I love my flowers and flower products, I’m now convinced that crowders have been so obsessed with flower products for so long, that the POV warps a basic understanding of the plant itself.

Drug plants produce paper pith (called ‘hurds’), and drug plants produce fiber...and ‘hemp’ is an old, colloquial and generic term that has no actual genetic meaning (Clarke, Short, and Phylos notwithstanding).

Retting got mentioned a time or two: retting is an ancient and low tech procedure for rotting the stalks of the plant in order to *free* the much sturdier fibers that lurk within (also used on flax, to generate the fibers linen is made from).

Someone tried to lecture me on the history of cannabis. I will admit, that I have no college background, I do not know everything. Plants are affected,(just like all animals ie. human beings) by climate of region, meaning light exposure, regular temperatures, geography, in entirety, environment. These plants evolve over time, whether naturally or by human intervention. with human intervention it comes down to certain factors, mostly how much can you yield and is it worth it in quality. In the end, how much knowledge and genetic profiles that have never been documented? What do we really know?

Elmer Bud said:

Its genetic in this case ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

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Congenial.. Like a midget mother passing aids to her midget fetus. "it's genetic"

I can imagine someone picking for hollow stems is because they associated it with taller plants. Love to see some of those "experiments". Taller plants would tell you which variety is best at picking up N.

Ca and B go together. Think of Ca as the building block and B as the cement. You don't get to far without cement.

Nitrogen is the enemy of Ca, it goes into the plant much faster than Ca and thus the cells walls are not as strong as they should be. N makes for more elongation and often much more aplical dominance.

To read a scientific article is not always the easiest. Often many "conclusions" are not correct.

I have had growers tell me that hollow stems is genetic. I know that this is not correct. Side by side plants of different varieties can vary due to their ability to pick up Ca and B. That is usually the difference... or overwatering... or too much Mg ... or too much Na, or too much K (which is highly prevalent).

clearheaded said:

Facepalm. Lets just say there is a reason in test feilds grown together that scientists make note of how hemp has hollow stems. There is an advantage for hemp to have hollow stems. Boron may help create more storage ie thicker pith. also if u look at cultivars that have intersex issues they tend to have genetic variability of hemp class in the phylos galaxy. Ie dj blueberry not a coinsidence its related ro hemp as he selected hollow stemmed males ie related to hemp. How would he select for hollow stems if all his plants were grown in same medium and was just boron. its a taxinomic described dofference between hemp and drug cuktivars. Sure enviro plays a role in expression but not to the extent of literature describing taxanomic differences.


If you want to read i have linked many articles describing hemp pith etc.

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Please post those links.

I've had both hollow and solid stems on the same strain. I believe it's only an indicator of brix values. The interstitial spaces in the leaves would look hollow too, if we could see there.

Calcium nitrate is what I used when they were hollow; it's around 80% nitrate, which creates a lot of pretty green growth, with hollow stems and a lower brix on the leaf. Outpaces the calcium... There's a Russian hemp study, points out the different types of nitrogen changed the fiber characteristics, maybe it's been talked about in these 20 pages. Makes the weed harsher to smoke too... But it looks pretty, maybe a bit floppy but it looks so green and pretty, no wonder fert companies like to use it.

Since I made the change to ammonium sulfate, added some chelators, the stems have been solid. Of course the people selling nitrate like to mention boron, then try to sell you a "micro" product, though they aren't all wrong. I mean, a low brix is a low brix.

White Beard said:

I may end up regretting posting in this thread, but I’m really surprised that no one mentioned that the pith is what PAPER is made from...hard to imagine that a random boron deficiency could be so widespread that the ancient world was kept in paper because of it.

Frankly, as much as I love my flowers and flower products, I’m now convinced that crowders have been so obsessed with flower products for so long, that the POV warps a basic understanding of the plant itself.

Drug plants produce paper pith (called ‘hurds’), and drug plants produce fiber...and ‘hemp’ is an old, colloquial and generic term that has no actual genetic meaning (Clarke, Short, and Phylos notwithstanding).

Retting got mentioned a time or two: retting is an ancient and low tech procedure for rotting the stalks of the plant in order to *free* the much sturdier fibers that lurk within (also used on flax, to generate the fibers linen is made from).

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yup ull regret it lol.

again, pith is NOT used for paper... hemp has been bred to have little pith as pith is not usuable so it uses its energy to grow the looong fibers used to make clothes etc.

Funny...the hemp gin was designed to separate cannabis stalks into fiber and hurds. I’ve read a dozen references or more over the years to hemp hurds being the raw material from which hemp paper is made - you know, the paper that used to be the STANDARD before Pierre DuPont came up with his pine-pulp process (which is what we’ve used ever since)?

Or are you saying that hemp paper is some hippie myth? Whatever: hemp’s three primary industrial materials are seed for oil and food, fiber for rope and fabric, and pith for paper...and have been for centuries.

Our modern obsession with the resinous part has blinded us, it seems: the resin has only been paramount since prohibition, and only because prohibition made “the high” the one and only measure of the plant.

Two things this thread makes clear: suppression of information has worked, and stoner myths have filled the gap.

And a third thing: “hemp” is completely misunderstood today. Even here.

pith is not fibers or shive or hurd. pith is storing center... hemp uses energy to grow LOONG fibers. like a tree. while i am sure it may be possible pith is not fibrous and therefore doesnt interlock like other fibres. pith stores it does not vertically transport nutrients so maybe that helps visualize the biology. look up flax cross sections and hemp cross sections. I have made more cross sections of so many plants i couldnt count that high. or high ohh nm.

pith is soft and some forsure ends up in hurds however if ever compress pith you see how massless it is, and dried stems it will virtually disappear.

google differnces from hemp and drugs and i am sure the literature i reference will be found. if you disagree with the literature. make an article up proving them wrong. unfortunetly till that point "its good science"

also thought experiment time. for boron guys... DJ grew a decent few plants in his day and can agree pretty knowledgable grower... do you think he selected males that happened to be grown in different boron depleted soil? or did he select plants that couldnt use boron as effevtively? or maybe literature is correct and genes for hollow stem happen to be similar hemp varities and why his varieties tend to have higher hemp similarities in its genetics as per phylos.. also 100% speculation however suspect similar code or perhaps parents used are related to hemp and also tend to have more "known" occurances of intersex or hermi?? as hemp of course is exactly that.... just an observation and just seems to help build a case that current literature is correct. if was random or nutrient related it would of likely occured to the scientists describing the plants.

can we change some things in a plant with nutrients 100% but such expressions are typically taken into account when doing species description.. different nitrogens phos levels can effect stalkyness branching and color...one could grow a more stalky branchy hemp with nutrients plant but that doesnt mean in general hemp is tall and not branchy.

Hollow stems allow male, heavy branched flowers to fold and drop giving a better chance to pollinate hollow stemmed high thc females that are shorter than hemp varieties. Drug varieties may have co-existed alongside hemp varieties and stayed somewhat segregated because of this trait.

clearheaded said:

pith is not fibers or shive or hurd. pith is storing center... hemp uses energy to grow LOONG fibers. like a tree. while i am sure it may be possible pith is not fibrous and therefore doesnt interlock like other fibres. pith stores it does not vertically transport nutrients so maybe that helps visualize the biology. look up flax cross sections and hemp cross sections. I have made more cross sections of so many plants i couldnt count that high. or high ohh nm.

pith is soft and some forsure ends up in hurds however if ever compress pith you see how massless it is, and dried stems it will virtually disappear.

google differnces from hemp and drugs and i am sure the literature i reference will be found. if you disagree with the literature. make an article up proving them wrong. unfortunetly till that point "its good science"

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I see I’ve scrambled you, not my intention.

Perhaps you could google hemp paper process, or look up the patent for the hemp gin. As to whether Phylos represents “good science” remains to be seen: so far, they seem determined to prove their assumptions, and that rarely constitutes “good science”. Too much good science has been suppressed since prohibition to show up at the top of shallow google searches, but try asking better questions.

To expand the point, “pith” has been used to make paper since the ancient Egyptians. Stop looking at cannabis as a drug factory and see the *whole* plant.

What's up with stems that have been cut that have a white substance buildup where they were cut?

^ it's probably nutes being transported in the parenchyma cells

Hollow stems are an effect of soil health plant/root health and transpiration rate. When your soil doesn't have a strong microbial base of nutrients ready for plant uptake. You plant produceses pith as a form of water storage. When your roots have a Gravitropic formation, growing down. Your plant can better move water and doesn't need pith. When your roots are growing sideways along the top of the soil your meristem will be pith filled and water retention and transpiration are stunted/slowed.

In natural soil if the compaction gets harder the plant will start pulling water from the upper root system and start developing pith. Soil aeration through worms and microbes is essential to plant health and soil rejuvenation year after year. Your soil should get better every year if you are growing properly.

Please read forum aims page one for a complete lesson and explanation of how microbial colonies and soil life works.
Peace farmerlion