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#@%! Perlite!

L

Ligyron

Member
After 40 yrs of growing in dirt (for the most part), I'm finally building an ebb and flo system and giving full-blow hydro a go for the first time. I've searched relevant threads and posts on the subject but can't really find a definate answer to my question, which is:

As I transplant my clones in red beer cups that are growing in a perlite/vermiculite mix into the 5.5 x 5.5 x 6.0 inch pots they'll bloom in -- can I just bury their smaller, undisturbed root balls in the lavarock and hydroton I'm using or will I forever regret not having washed all that off as the perl/verm mix somehow works its way into my system clogging drains, filters and just generally making a mess?

Might a good cap of hydroton prevent the undistrubed mix from floating out if I set the flood height low enough? We're not suppose to flood above the media's surface anyway but rather 4/5th of the way up or about an inch below that surface in my case. No?

Besides the mess issue, would leaving the old mix on retain too much water between flood cycles, or create a "dead zone" possibly leading to rot and oxygen issues? I'm just not sure if I should play it safe and try and eliminate as much of that stuff as possible, which will surely set the roots back a bit as they recover, or just bury it and hope for the best.

On another note: Does anyone think it a good idea to put a layer of this heavier, marble-like "pearock" I have in the bottom of each pot for added stability or might this possibly lead to an increase in pH?

Hopefully, someone who's seen this movie before will answer but I value everyone's opinion and thank anyone who takes the time to respond.

BTW, I'm having lots of fun building my E & F using the amazing ideas and resources available on this site and I look forward to sharing some pics and info once it's up and running.

Thanks ever so much, Ligyron
 
C

Corsec

New member
Not sure if this will answer your questions, but I have a grow right now which I started in dirt and a peat pot as a little baby seedling and eventually transplanted into a hydro system my wife helped me build. The perlite was a huge pain in the ass. Fuck perlite. I eventually moved the entire thing (soda bottle and all) into a bubbling bucket system. I never had a problem with root rot either way or any other real issues like that. In fact, I even got the perlite to stop plugging my sprayers. The reasons I finally moved the plants is that their roots had plugged up the drain holes. Now they are in basically a bubbling bucket.

Basically I learned that as long as they have plenty of oxygen, I havent ever had any problems. Now in the bubbling bucket type setup they grew out of the medium and down into the water and the medium doesn't even really get wet. Maybe at the very bottom of it, but the top is *always* dry as a bone and the plant is doing fine.


Edit to fix typo's.
 
extreegrowerrr

extreegrowerrr

Member
perlite or hempy buckets i hate em once you dial them in they rock and roll but for the most part ditch that shit in my opinion!
 
L

Ligyron

Member
Corsec said:
The perlite was a huge pain in the ass. Fuck perlite.
.
Click to expand...

Yeah folks, that's what I'm thinking too. . .

Cleaning that crap off might be a pain in the ass and the associated root damage will no doubt set the girls back a bit growth-wise -- but then many were getting a little too big anyway as I dicked around finishing the system and rooting enough of their sisters for this E&F SOG gro.

I'd like to give DWC/buckets a try and grow me a few sat. trees, but I fear that without a chiller -- the water temps in my situation would end up being a major problem.

Thanks for your inputs.
 
Babbabud

Babbabud

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Best to root some bare root plants. Soil roots are not the same as water roots and will take time to adapt.
 
GilligansIsle

GilligansIsle

Member
Aloha:
Babba speaks the truth. I have done both approaches and there is a lag time for adjustment going from a soil medium to hydro.

As far as Perlite in an E&F I would not let any more into the system than is absolutely necessary to prevent damage to the roots, even then the little white pieces will float up to the surface. So if you are going to transplant from perlite cups to E&F take the time to put a bit of screen on both ends (inflow and drain) of the system to keep your nutes in the tank and your pump free of clogs.
 
H

headband 707

Plant whisperer
Veteran
I too hate perlite lol lol.. I believe the plants hate it aswell ... I couldn't careless what anyone says I've been doing this for long enough to know lol .. It was always supposed to just be a filler nothing more and the company that makes it has made it's fortune selling it as somthing else. Also wear a mask if your pouring it from the bag into anything as the dust isn't good for your lungs ..Perlite SUCKS!!! lol peace out Headband707

LI :you should have filters on all your tubes so nothing gets in there!!! lol peace out bro and good luck !!!
 
L

Ligyron

Member
Alright, that does it!

I'm washing as much of that stuff off as possible without causing major root damage like Gilligan says. I'm hep to screening all drains, etc. but I still know damn good'n well that any remaining perlite will still get loose somehow and have me unclogging those screens 'till I thoroughly clean the system afterward and stick a new gro in.

Never again . . . plus, like Headband says, perlite is dangerous dry -- the dust is almost like asbestos.

BTW, I made one of those DIY "areocloners" out of a 20 gal Rubbermaid (there's a vision for ya, "Oh Rubbergirl"!)with a good aquarium pump and PVC mainfold with cheapo DIG sprayer heads from the DePot and that thing works like a mofo! Got roots way too quick as I'm just getting used to this strain (ECSD V3) and so got ahead of myself just a bit. Even sats and hybrids like W.W. took right off in that thing. I over-cloned figuring for some losses, like I get with with rockwool or bubblers but I didn't loose even one!

So, now I have a system-worth of beautiful girls in the red beer cups and perlite-mix -- plus quite a few gorgeous, healthy clones at various and sundry stages, some with two foot roots now, as I've nowhere to put them. If I only had enough I might just re-think this whole movie and load my now empty system with those instead, but then what would I do with all my perlite ladies?

Gawd, do I hate wasting/throwing weed away!

Can't make myself do it, not even trim shoots (which end up geting cloned if they're even halfway viable) and that's why my numbers are wack.

Come to think of it . . . because of this sickness I'm now basically running an unintentional, half-ass aeroponic system instead of just a cloner as I get my system going -- plus the amount of mothers and clone numbers needed down pat, and my overall timing straight.

I'm going to build another e & f for vegging/holding clones in hydroton from now on so I won't have to use any more perlite, ever again ... period!

Well, thanks to all for their input and happy growing to everone!
 
Japanfreakier

Japanfreakier

Active member
Veteran
Perlite is awesome, it's cheap, great to grow in and you can use it again and again and again.

I know a guy who gets great results using 100% perlite in his E&F system, a pro grower.
 
highonmt

highonmt

Active member
Veteran
Ligyron said:
Alright, that does it!

I'm washing as much of that stuff off as possible without causing major root damage like Gilligan says. I'm hep to screening all drains, etc. but I still know damn good'n well that any remaining perlite will still get loose somehow and have me unclogging those screens 'till I thoroughly clean the system afterward and stick a new gro in.

Never again . . . plus, like Headband says, perlite is dangerous dry -- the dust is almost like asbestos.

BTW, I made one of those DIY "areocloners" out of a 20 gal Rubbermaid (there's a vision for ya, "Oh Rubbergirl"!)with a good aquarium pump and PVC mainfold with cheapo DIG sprayer heads from the DePot and that thing works like a mofo! Got roots way too quick as I'm just getting used to this strain (ECSD V3) and so got ahead of myself just a bit. Even sats and hybrids like W.W. took right off in that thing. I over-cloned figuring for some losses, like I get with with rockwool or bubblers but I didn't loose even one!

So, now I have a system-worth of beautiful girls in the red beer cups and perlite-mix -- plus quite a few gorgeous, healthy clones at various and sundry stages, some with two foot roots now, as I've nowhere to put them. If I only had enough I might just re-think this whole movie and load my now empty system with those instead, but then what would I do with all my perlite ladies?

Gawd, do I hate wasting/throwing weed away!

Can't make myself do it, not even trim shoots (which end up geting cloned if they're even halfway viable) and that's why my numbers are wack.

Come to think of it . . . because of this sickness I'm now basically running an unintentional, half-ass aeroponic system instead of just a cloner as I get my system going -- plus the amount of mothers and clone numbers needed down pat, and my overall timing straight.

I'm going to build another e & f for vegging/holding clones in hydroton from now on so I won't have to use any more perlite, ever again ... period!

Well, thanks to all for their input and happy growing to everone!
Click to expand...

Oh come on it's no big deal to rinse away most of it and the rest won't cause any trouble.

Use a couple small water buckets; to first rinse the easy stuff and then then use the second to wash out the rest. use an up and down motion and gently tickle the roots...sounds dirty like the clones my cali connection always gives me...he insists on delivery in perlite/dirt... hopefully your ebb and flow fittings are bigger than a piece of perlite you missed; if not you need bigger fittings or a new set of glasses. Oh and don't hate on PP hempy , it's cheaper than dirt ( literally ) and in the right hands it can kick out some serious weight.
 
FreezerBoy

FreezerBoy

Was blind but now IC Puckbunny in Training
Veteran
CLONERS- a collection of various methods

There are a million ways to clone in the Naked City. If you don't want perlite in your grow, don't use perlite to clone. For E&F with Hydroton you could try naked stem cloning in a bubbler, air layering or rockwool stater cubes.
 
Craven_au

Craven_au

Active member
highonmt said:
Oh come on it's no big deal to rinse away most of it and the rest won't cause any trouble.

Use a couple small water buckets; to first rinse the easy stuff and then then use the second to wash out the rest. use an up and down motion and gently tickle the roots...sounds dirty like the clones my cali connection always gives me...he insists on delivery in perlite/dirt... hopefully your ebb and flow fittings are bigger than a piece of perlite you missed; if not you need bigger fittings or a new set of glasses. Oh and don't hate on PP hempy , it's cheaper than dirt ( literally ) and in the right hands it can kick out some serious weight.
Click to expand...

I 2nd that i have done the same thing 4 transplanting into DWC net cups and Hydroton drip system with no problems i also add a little nutrients into the water i don't want straight tap water on the roots.

And Ligyron the pearock is not needed the lavarock and hydroton will add enough stability
 
L

Ligyron

Member
Cravan, mate: Thanks for answering my other question about the pearock.

JapanFreakier: Is your friend with the perlite e&f using the larger, rock size perlite I understand is available somewhere? I'd be real curious to know just how this pure perlite e&f combo works. The regular, smaller size, which I buy by the 30lb bag, just floats forever, is sharp, abrasive and the dust deadly. I can only picture the perlite floating out of container like styrofoam as the water in the e&f tray rises and I'd love to know how this doesn't happen.

While I may have given the impression I hate the stuff, I mainly just dislilke the way it tends to float out of whatever I use it in. If it would only stay put. Hell, I've used tons of it in soil blends, for cloning and in soiless mixes. It would be a lot cheaper than hydroton in an e&f, that's for sure, and I'm curious about what other sizes it comes in and exactly where one might find such an animal.

Speaking of animals: FreezerBoy, what an Honor! Your cloner compilation has been a real asset and I've tried or use/have used most of the methods therein xcept for the fog cloner. I built King Ralph's areo cloner, as I described above, and I must say; this is one of the most sucessfull and usefull DIY's I've ever put together.
 
H

headband 707

Plant whisperer
Veteran
Just a couple of questions lol FreezerBoy lol

Just a couple of questions lol FreezerBoy lol

FreezerBoy said:
CLONERS- a collection of various methods

There are a million ways to clone in the Naked City. If you don't want perlite in your grow, don't use perlite to clone. For E&F with Hydroton you could try naked stem cloning in a bubbler, air layering or rockwool stater cubes.
Click to expand...

FreezerBoy nice thread on cloning out of all those technics which one would you say made the nicest clones? Then I would like to put it in catagories which one is cheaper , Makes the most sence and no harm to you or the enviorment? thanks peace out Headband707:dance013:
 
FreezerBoy

FreezerBoy

Was blind but now IC Puckbunny in Training
Veteran
No other area sees such disparate results from identical procedures. I tried my best to keep my preferences and personality out of it and simply list the best written example of each style. As a DWC with Hydroton guy, I hoped the naked stem Bubbler would be the one for me but, I just can't get it to work "correctly". Used "wrong" with rockwool cloning solution and gel... voìla.

Ultimately, that's the whole point of the thread. That there are too many ways to go to use a method that doesn't work well for you.
 
Japanfreakier

Japanfreakier

Active member
Veteran
Ligyron said:
JapanFreakier: Is your friend with the perlite e&f using the larger, rock size perlite I understand is available somewhere? I'd be real curious to know just how this pure perlite e&f combo works. The regular, smaller size, which I buy by the 30lb bag, just floats forever, is sharp, abrasive and the dust deadly. I can only picture the perlite floating out of container like styrofoam as the water in the e&f tray rises and I'd love to know how this doesn't happen.
Click to expand...

He used the course stuff but it wasn't that big, just had a bunch of pots filled with it on his flood table. His growth was so good though that the things were filled with roots and that probably kept it from rising up, and they were big pots as well.
 
L

Ligyron

Member
[His growth was so good though that the things were filled with roots and that probably kept it from rising up, and they were big pots as well.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, . . . I guess you could first do run-to-waste using appropriate strength nutes hand watered from the top down until the roots were established enough to start E&F flooding from the bottom up.

Perlite is cheap compared to Hydroton and it's sure a lot easier to lug around than lava rock. Plus, you say that pro-grower re-uses it too so maybe I have been selling short at least this larger-sized variety of perlite. I must admit; I really like these qualities mentioned in a gro-media -- so if I can actually find some of this coarser material, maybe I'll do a side-by-side.

BTW, notice what a diplomatic answer FreezerBoy lays out when it comes to cloners? Now, I don't usually tell tales out of class, but the last time I called Suicide-Prevention Hotline -- I heard rumours about him being a hostige negotiator in real life. . . :jump:
 
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