I think you might be right. It was my understanding that landrace definitionally meant untouched by human hands but it seems there's more to it than that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landrace#Plants
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Landraces . Will we ever smoke what we once had? If no is there a Way back?
- Thread starter romanoweed
- Start date
I think you might be right. It was my understanding that landrace definitionally meant untouched by human hands but it seems there's more to it than that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landrace#Plants
DrDee
Member
Beta,
This is a story i heard from a Mexican cafe owner. I asked her about spicing which was hot and delicious. She showed me her pepper plant. A bushy plant behind the cafe...about 4' tall with tiny red berries on it. I plucked one and ate it...very hot like a habenero.
She said that it was an example of the pepper plant that all peppers come from. A landrace pepper plant. Which explains why all pepper plants can cross with any others. Common origins. But the landrace strain survived.
I'll bet somewhere in Panama there is a stand of original Panama Red...maybe even still cultivated but just not available to us.
JD
This is a story i heard from a Mexican cafe owner. I asked her about spicing which was hot and delicious. She showed me her pepper plant. A bushy plant behind the cafe...about 4' tall with tiny red berries on it. I plucked one and ate it...very hot like a habenero.
She said that it was an example of the pepper plant that all peppers come from. A landrace pepper plant. Which explains why all pepper plants can cross with any others. Common origins. But the landrace strain survived.
I'll bet somewhere in Panama there is a stand of original Panama Red...maybe even still cultivated but just not available to us.
JD
Don't look back
Don't look back
I can’t speak for anywhere else in the world but the parts of Colombia I’ve been but yes there are indeed land race cannabis still growing here. And it’s relatively easy to obtain in Bogota or even easier on the Caribbean coast, Santa Marta Cartagena. There are many varieties available called “regs” fully seeded pressed flowers. I think they are land races, maybe not but they are defiantly not imported and they been here forever (relatively).
Santa Marta Gold
I’ve grown them out (locally) and found nice high THC plants in the seeds (much better than any of the seeded flowers to buy). So I feel strongly that Land race Colombian is still around.
Mangobiche (CBG)
Can we bring them back? Hell yes we can and are, theses hills down here are full of gringos thinking the same thing I have been. It’s just a matter of time before people come back to the real tropical (grown at high altitude in Colombia) smoking mans ganja. Anything else is just medicine.
red rider
Don't look back
I can’t speak for anywhere else in the world but the parts of Colombia I’ve been but yes there are indeed land race cannabis still growing here. And it’s relatively easy to obtain in Bogota or even easier on the Caribbean coast, Santa Marta Cartagena. There are many varieties available called “regs” fully seeded pressed flowers. I think they are land races, maybe not but they are defiantly not imported and they been here forever (relatively).
Santa Marta Gold
I’ve grown them out (locally) and found nice high THC plants in the seeds (much better than any of the seeded flowers to buy). So I feel strongly that Land race Colombian is still around.
Mangobiche (CBG)
Can we bring them back? Hell yes we can and are, theses hills down here are full of gringos thinking the same thing I have been. It’s just a matter of time before people come back to the real tropical (grown at high altitude in Colombia) smoking mans ganja. Anything else is just medicine.
red rider
Attachments
Looking forward to the tropical grown stuff, hopefully it will be imported in the new legal markets.
St. Phatty
Active member
I think of the Original genetics as comparable to the one in a million Afghani Indica that some Afghan sheepherder may have passed by a 1000 years ago.
Amongst all the more average plants, selected by Survival of the Fittest conditions, instead of by a medication-oriented Cannaphile, there were outstanding-outstanding plants always.
A thousand years ago, a hundred years ago, and today.
A similar scenario un-folded in Sativa plant growing areas.
At this point, even though much of the countryside has been destroyed by various wars, much of it is still un-touched.
I don't think the US has destroyed the Earth enough to destroy all the valleys where all the valuable old Cannabis strains occasionally thrive.
One Curve-ball, not sure if it's good or bad - CO2 levels are higher now than in most of the last 2000 years.
So all that open nature plant breeding, done under Survival of the Fittest conditions, is now done with background CO2 at 404 CO2, instead of 350 ppm, as in 'days of olde'.
The rule of thumb among forestry people is that is un-wise to cause a plant to grow too big sometimes, because the larger plant may not have access to more water. This increases the chances of the plant dying (which the forestry people don't like because it increases wildfire danger).
That same tendency to grow fast earlier in the season, for plants with the new higher CO2 levels, may also have some "selection for survival" effects on new plants growing.
And so, on the preservation of landrace genetics, since they are dealing with the same CO2 situation.
Amongst all the more average plants, selected by Survival of the Fittest conditions, instead of by a medication-oriented Cannaphile, there were outstanding-outstanding plants always.
A thousand years ago, a hundred years ago, and today.
A similar scenario un-folded in Sativa plant growing areas.
At this point, even though much of the countryside has been destroyed by various wars, much of it is still un-touched.
I don't think the US has destroyed the Earth enough to destroy all the valleys where all the valuable old Cannabis strains occasionally thrive.
One Curve-ball, not sure if it's good or bad - CO2 levels are higher now than in most of the last 2000 years.
So all that open nature plant breeding, done under Survival of the Fittest conditions, is now done with background CO2 at 404 CO2, instead of 350 ppm, as in 'days of olde'.
The rule of thumb among forestry people is that is un-wise to cause a plant to grow too big sometimes, because the larger plant may not have access to more water. This increases the chances of the plant dying (which the forestry people don't like because it increases wildfire danger).
That same tendency to grow fast earlier in the season, for plants with the new higher CO2 levels, may also have some "selection for survival" effects on new plants growing.
And so, on the preservation of landrace genetics, since they are dealing with the same CO2 situation.
Drewsif
Member
Lol yes old school weed still exists, call it landrace or not, their are lots of people in the US growing from 70s era bagseed for the past 40 years. Not everyone worries about hip strain names and breeders. All the stuff people claim to miss. Even the sour skunks. And theres still Durban Poison and Swazi Gold being grown in SA. Still hash being produced in the Rif region.
Most forum-minded or legal industry folks won't grow it because it takes longer than 10 weeks and isn't dense and trimless with marketable numerics.
You could probably find seeds on the darkweb, from Spain, South Africa, Pakistan, who knows.
Most forum-minded or legal industry folks won't grow it because it takes longer than 10 weeks and isn't dense and trimless with marketable numerics.
You could probably find seeds on the darkweb, from Spain, South Africa, Pakistan, who knows.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
Yep. I know one old timer up here who's been growing the same stuff for decades.
When I go to central and south america, I always find something interesting. Just be an extrovert for that time and talk to people. If I ever go to Africa, you can be sure I'll me mailing shit to myself.
When I go to central and south america, I always find something interesting. Just be an extrovert for that time and talk to people. If I ever go to Africa, you can be sure I'll me mailing shit to myself.
No that's not it. Google 'landrace' and you get this: ' a local cultivar or animal breed that has been improved by traditional agricultural methods.' Or in wikipedia: A landrace is a domesticated, locally adapted,[1][2][3] traditional variety[4] of a species of animal or plant that has developed over time, through adaptation to its natural and cultural environment of agriculture and pastoralism, and due to isolation from other populations of the species
Ditch weed is feral cannabis which is not the same as landrace. Landraces are planted purposefully by humans, tended to, watered, fertilized and weeded. They are often grown in places where they could not grow without intervention by man. What makes a landrace unique is that THERE IS NO SEXUAL SELECTION BY HUMANS. The males and hermaphrodites are not culled.
Every year the seeds are collected and replanted not taking care to select the best few females. The sexual selection is quite loose. So in landrace strains there's a lot more variation. Very quickly the strain adapts to the local environment and changes from the ancestral stock it came from.
You hear quite a bit that landraces are difficult tricky to grow plants with low levels of THC that most people wouldn't want to grow. I'm sure this is true with a great many landraces but some are quite good, although maybe not by modern indoor dispensary standards.
There's a rule of thumb with landrace strains. As you get closer to the equator the strains become more potent with higher levels of THC. As you travel away from the equator the strains become hemp-like, low in THC, and higher in CBD. For whatever reason there are strong selective pressures in the environment that favor this.
That's why the feral and landrace hemp across America, Europe, and Siberia is so weak but the feral landrace ganja in India and SE Asia is strong (by feral standards). If you lived in Maine for instance and let your plants grow landrace style without selecting for potency your strain would become weaker over the years.
This helped me understand the concept a lot better, thanks for sharing!
romanoweed
Well-known member
For shure Landraces still exist. Somehow.... Or, to which Degree Questionmark. Cause hear: if you even Got the same old 100 Procent same Thaistick or whatever growing in your Garden right now, how you wanna get ahold of it? to 100 Procent? Just inbreed it trough open Pollination, just inbreed one single Child-Ship of one Mother? I really dont know for shure, but i dont think you gonna make this happen forever, Generation after Generation just like that. Inbreeding seems to be one of the most Hardcore advanced Thekniques to my understanding, and so is multiple Generations of inbreeding and inbreeding. I think you are much saver if you ibreed/reproduce two separate Lines, wich result in the desired Landrace-Yuwel when combining them . There is much less Risk of loosing vigourosity. Some People go to Extremes and say you Need to have multiple thousands of Seeds in open Polination to reproduce a wild Landrace 100 Prozent. I mean a wild Landrace now. So wheter reproducing the final Landrace-yuwel wich effects you right, or reproducing the wild Ancestors of this Landrace-Yuwel it doesent seem to be so easy.
I personal believe, but thats just my opinion: To get ahold of a Yuwel you actually Should start by reproducing the purest possible Landrace first, however, by open Polination of thousends of Plants, or probably Inbreeding of the smallest possible different Exemplares of that wild Landraces (all ist Facettes) separatly, and from there recreating the actual Yewel wich may be made of crossing of These Facettes from wild Landraces. I actually dont know but just assume that inbreeding at the last Stage cant lead to a Yewel wich brings you 100 Procent effect . I assume that Yewels are coming fresh out of (Outcrosses) even very Close Outcrosses and never out of inbreed Plants. At least to a big Degree.
And if i would go Seedhunting, i would rather try to collect Exemplares from multiple Close Regions, rather then finding the one and only Plant wich i then Inbreed, until the Power is gone. So i would try to get ahold of that Yuwels Close Ancestors trough remembring all the different Examples on the Trip and combining them already in my Mind. Once at home i would recombine them, and as soon a Yewel emerged i would inbreed/reproduce These Examplares separatly wich lead to my Yewel. Thats what i imagine. But i dont have the Time to do it, but at least i wanna discuss it
If "landrace" is something that is being maintained by humans, what do you call cannabis that existed before humans discovered it?!
EDIT:
Should cannabis populations that existed before humans grew them called "[FONT="]indigenous cannabis" = new hype-term for seed banks [/FONT][FONT="]...i surely would buy some
[/FONT]If a cannabis population was brought to certain area by humans, who then grow them; watering them and fertilizing them, then, imo, you can't really say that the "population has adapted to the area", because these have been kept going with human assistance; water and nutrients given to them by humans.
Treevly
Active member
Selective breeding has given us strains which are much stronger, more potent, faster-flowering, and more consistent than landrace. That does not mean that the high is preferred by everyone, but selective breeding can improve plant strains dramatically in a few (say 10) generations, stabilized. I believe that the original Skunk took 14 generations.
IMO, there are reasons for me to prefer certain landraces.
IMO, there are reasons for me to prefer certain landraces.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
heirloom = Recent history and passed down through generations with a specific lineage. Some are even listed in seed libraries going back 150 years.
landrace = Genetically adapted to an environment and have no specific lineage.
If you live in Florida, you can grow an heirloom tomato and I can grow one in Canada and they will be almost identical. The environment doesn't matter that much.
Growing a Malawi Landrace in Florida, Canada or it's native environment will result in three very different plants (phenos).
At least that's how I understand it to be.
landrace = Genetically adapted to an environment and have no specific lineage.
If you live in Florida, you can grow an heirloom tomato and I can grow one in Canada and they will be almost identical. The environment doesn't matter that much.
Growing a Malawi Landrace in Florida, Canada or it's native environment will result in three very different plants (phenos).
At least that's how I understand it to be.
romanoweed
Well-known member
It may has, but i believe Nature Occasionally also creates INSANE strong Gems aswell. Maybe The same strong. Just only once a Millenium or veery hidden in the Woods in veery few Examples of Plants. And we Humans only ocasionally create that same Gems. I dont believe in a difference betwen human Bredingchoices and Natures Breedingchoices in Prinzip. I would say Nature does strong Strains too, or shoud i say Humans do strong Strains too.
I actually heard of veery strong wild Plants. If thats true i dont know.
I actually wouldnt call Skunk strong. I personally think we also rather could call These Altered Landrace Flashs: Unique in Overall, or Hallucinogen in paticularly Southeast Asia, aswell as Mythical Stunnig in Southamerica... and simply Strongness would be a strange Therm to describe desired Traits of what i look after.
I could call Skunk strong, cause im getting very diffrent Feel from it than without smoking, but i actually could call it nothing worth saying in afterwords cause it doesent really touch me. I mean Skunk No.1. But you probably wanted to say Domesticate Landrace Breeds when you say Skunk. And a Hallucination that you can get of a domesticated Landrace is per se Strong.
I wouldnt call it strong what you we get with Skunk, no i would call it unique what you get with domesticated Landraces, but i agree with you that we wagely can improove the Effect of random wild Landrace-Exemplares by sellectively crossing These and getting to unique Exemplares.
Ey , why not call it domesticated Landraces for the human touched regional Landraces and wild Landraces for the untouched pure Natural Landraces.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
In the process of breeding potent strains, a lot of valuable traits have been lost. Familiar terpenes I knew as a kid absolutely don't exist anymore. I only smell 3 now when we used to get all sorts of interesting aromas and flavors.
It happens all the time. We did the same to tomatoes. In fact there are efforts to reintroduce flavonoids into the tomato because we lost them in an attempt to grow a picture perfect tomato with a thick enough skin so it can be picked by machines without being damaged.
Kevin Jodrey speaks quite a lot on hunting for terpenes and that they were expressly bread out of weed so it would increase it's stealth before charcoal filtering.
[iframeb]btKct7wOnLw[/iframeb]
romanoweed
Well-known member
What doesent fit with the Name Heiloom is that they say it is maintained trough open pollination, while fruit varieties such as Apples have been propagated over the Centuries through Crafts and Cuttings. And i dont think that These Yewel-Exemplares appear that easy just trough open Polination. Thats why i call it something like domesticated Landrace. And Heirloom actually only describes Landraces that we still have, wich are touched/changed by Humans but only slight. In some cases maybe the only survivors of the particular Plant-Race. Something in the middle, wether wild or Domesticated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_plant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_plant
JustSumTomatoes
Indicas make dreams happen
To play the devil's advocate, what if by working with all these indoor Indica/hybrids and breeding within the same narrow gene pool (OG Kush, Skunk, etc.) we're creating new "land races" that will be unique to our own time and revered by generations in the future?
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
I think tokers will be extinct by then.
JustSumTomatoes
Indicas make dreams happen
True, haha.
