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No-Till thread?

L

Lovesponge

Member
I'm hankering for one. Would like to discuss everything from cover crop selection to topdressings and pots/soil structure.. Any and all details really. FPEs and tea recipes... Come on guys. Tell me there are no till people out there. Be magnetized to meee!!!
 
L

Lovesponge

Member
I suppose if they were making fresh dirt and letting it meld for a few weeks, then they would probably have experimental soil mixes. I understand they wouldn't be giving the first batch and time to show them the true results of that specific ecosystem of dirt, so it is humorous. The current mix is just SIP Soil from BuildASoil. Trying a basic run at the thing. :/
 
V

VortexPower420

Active member
Veteran
No till/ recycled for years.

I have been playing with pot sizes and moving locations but always the same dirt.

I only make more when I need more, never to replace.

What do you want to know? It's easy...
 
L

Lovesponge

Member
I was curious what pot size would be sufficient enough for a permanent setup, somewhere around 15g per pot I was estimating... Would anyone recommend more? Less? Do I ever need to worry about root bound plants? I'm trying them in 7g for now.
 
V

VortexPower420

Active member
Veteran
Any thing from 5 to 25 is running in my garden now. With the 5's I like hard sideed pots, little fabric ones just dry to quickly for me.

I am thinking 15 gal is my ideal. I run a perpetual, pulling a plant or two 3very week or so.

Watering is the biggest thing that changes over other styles. In bottles grows you want the soil to dry more. Notill likes to be moist.

Think of it like this 1 is dry and 10 is soaking wet. I like to hover between 4 and 8. Sometimes I water every other day sometimes everyday, it's really flexible.

Im a lazy person so no till is perfect for me. No day today thinking involved. Just "should i water today?".

I only worry about root bound plants in little pots and the even it takes a long time. One great thing about notill is the worms. When a plants starts to get root bound typically the plant will start to let roots die off. With all the worms around the get in there and eat Dead roots. This makes space for new ones.
Whole root binding is still a problem it is much less with recycled/notill.
 
A

Aphotic

Member
Lovesponge said:
I'm hankering for one. Would like to discuss everything from cover crop selection to topdressings and pots/soil structure.. Any and all details really. FPEs and tea recipes... Come on guys. Tell me there are no till people out there. Be magnetized to meee!!!
Click to expand...

I hear you, I have a Notill grow journal here and a couple other places and it seems like the Notill craze died out. Anyways I'm down for a discussion, and when I started down this road I had hoped for more people to talk to.

I'll post some details tomorrow, you can also check out my journal, I just updated it so it should be close to the top of this forum.

So where are you at as far as Notill goes? What's your setup?
 
A

Aphotic

Member
Lovesponge said:
I was curious what pot size would be sufficient enough for a permanent setup, somewhere around 15g per pot I was estimating... Would anyone recommend more? Less? Do I ever need to worry about root bound plants? I'm trying them in 7g for now.
Click to expand...

Bigger is better, I'm running 3 140gal fabric beds at the moment. I would suggest going the bed route if you can. Microbe man was suggesting a minimum of 12-14" depth, and basically is big as you can go. You're trying to replicate nature and those tiny pots, while they do work, are going to require more work and I think you'll eventually have issues, plus unless you want to let the pots sit empty for a while between cycles you're going to have to rip the root balls out of them, which disturbes the soil and your ecosystem. Plus you'll have to water more often.
 
heady blunts

heady blunts

prescription blunts
Veteran
plenty of growers practice no till here. check out my thread. link in sig :smoke:

I just prefer to think of no till as a farming practice. I don't find the dogmatic militant #notillarmy IG fame approach very compelling.

it's all farming.

5 gallons are about as small as you can go. check out the old ROLS threads to see gascanistan's 5 gallon no tills for example.

I've been using 10s. my back can't handle anything bigger unfortunately.

I'd love to be in massive beds. more roots is more fruits.

the smaller the container the more the farmer needs to contribute to close the loop. larger containers are more forgiving. every time you harvest a plant, you're removing biomass and nutrients from the system. they must be replenished with compost and mulch top.

making super high quality worm castings fortified with kelp/crab/neem/basalt for example is the easiest way to keep your no till functioning smoothly.
 
V

VortexPower420

Active member
Veteran
I was talking to a produce farmer to.day about the different dogmatic camps, and why they can't get along.

It's all farming. As long as you are being a farmer instead of a miner. (Chem agriculture)

Tilling a little bit can be beneficial.

Remember notill originates from chem agriculture. No need to till when you have killed everything with glyphosphate, then knife in your seeds and nutes. Even they know that over tilling destroys organic matter. They just need to be way more careful.

There aren't many no till organic growers. Most are minimal till. Usually less the 6 inches. How else to you incorporate you cover crop into your soil. There are exceptions, but that just shows how diverse this can all be.

No right way, but there are guidelines that help you to discover your own truths. That is the power of understanding the soil food web and working with it.

It can be applied to all aspects of your life.
 
V

VortexPower420

Active member
Veteran
I have heard of his methods. Seem to work, but living soil is so diverse and so many ways to do it simple and cheaply. I haven't followed him lately so.I don't know his current methods, but I always thought he could us a mulch.

I feel like that is just a way to get people to buy shit. All can be made at home cheaply.

His pictures of fuzz on the soil while are cool and show some form of life, is kinda a gimic.

Make a simple mix from a proven recipe and make sure you use the highest quality compost you can find. Done and done.

Do you want to see fuzz, apply some malted barley and watch the fuzz grow.

Other then peat areation amendments and your bulk mineral powders, you should not have to buy anything.
 
V

Veggia farmer

Well-known member
Have an indoor 10 400w, one bed, 6-8cubic of compost: Whatever manure, sawdust, straw or maybe its hay? both? and maybe some stuff that I will never know.....

Second round, plant looks great. No need for anything extra, one sativa pheno with slightly N Hook/claw. Plant yellow just because of lack of light near the bottom...

Plan is to no-till, but need to break it up a little bit after this round because of too much moisture... dont get it under 70 prosent RH........ Spraying with baking soda and "green" soap. is green soap right in English?

have some organic fertz of chicken, bone and meat meal and vinasse... going to use this and probably nettles, comfrey and whatever greenstuff that comes in hand... What some native soil in for minerals and micros and shroomies;) Going to try to infest it with P.semilanceata in the autumn to see what happens... they live out dead grass roots, and are already havin some living mulch there.. going to have more when I find my mums... one light-one plant... bigger and bushier..


But we are talking indoors, who the F is doing it outdoors? I have... but want to do it more so i can to i in the same plot year after year with cover crops and compost, instead of guerilla style one plot, one year, No-till, no fertz, BUT have given some REALLY good herb, just little of it... but thats no so weird. Forest, Chopped with heavy machines, packing the soil, no or very little manure. plant, and no maintance.... But again, really good smoke hehe!;) These plots have also been open pollination... dense buds... no pest or diseases... good seeds:)
 
L

Lovesponge

Member
Williamsburg Haze? XD Weird, that's my hometown/birthplace. I had already planned on barley straw mulching with a green manure cover crop. Plan on getting red wigglers for the long haul and aeration/fresh casting and worm secretions for tons of added buffs to mah soil... I'm really trying to biomimic as best as I can while still using a base of standard amendments and teas to keep everything going smoothly. I feel 7g will do well with plants that are going to veg out in 1g pots.
 
L

Lovesponge

Member
I'm feeling 15g is going to be where I settle as well for my bloom cycle. And ze worms... <3 Recommendations? Red wigglers I assumed would be best, but there are other types: african and european nightcrawlers, malaysian (aka indian) blues... I've been curious about some sort of elite team to cultivate for my soil life. I hope the 7g Geo-pots sustain three or more harvests before the switch.

I somewhat recall that nightcrawlers and most larger earthworms needing required soil depths of about 12"-14" to be well utilized. Please educate me if I'm wrong or have misplaced the numbers... I read myself until I'm blue in the face some nights and definitely need some guidance. Red wigglers seem to be the quicker species? Smaller and eat faster...

Thoughts?
 
Weird

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
VortexPower420 said:
I was talking to a produce farmer to.day about the different dogmatic camps, and why they can't get along.

It's all farming. As long as you are being a farmer instead of a miner. (Chem agriculture)

Tilling a little bit can be beneficial.

Remember notill originates from chem agriculture. No need to till when you have killed everything with glyphosphate, then knife in your seeds and nutes. Even they know that over tilling destroys organic matter. They just need to be way more careful.

There aren't many no till organic growers. Most are minimal till. Usually less the 6 inches. How else to you incorporate you cover crop into your soil. There are exceptions, but that just shows how diverse this can all be.

No right way, but there are guidelines that help you to discover your own truths. That is the power of understanding the soil food web and working with it.

It can be applied to all aspects of your life.
Click to expand...


No til came from chem farming?

All farming is simple farming unless you use chems?

No right way?

Sorry, I respect your efforts but I do not agree wholeheartedly with everything you are saying.

There is one right way, it is sustainable agriculture. How that is achieved however is where we have choices, but even then, most people don't really understand the concept (including many people in the agricultural industry).

In regards to the what is wrong in regards to sustainability there is more to it than chemicals like roundup and eagle20.

Both organic and synthetic methods are attributed to causing nitrification, a serious detrimental byproduct of agricultural practices.

Sustainable doesn't mean no chemicals, very specific organic methods or a compromise in the existing metrics one enjoys (amount of yield, % of cannabinoids, etc).

It means understanding causation in the agricultural processes and choosing the ones at your disposal that achieve maximum output using sustainable practices.

The part that most everyone is ignorant to, because they can't soil test their soil for them, is microbial activity.

With the proper microbes in the rhizopshere, not only can natural occurring levels of organic matter fulfill nutritional needs but robust soil microbiology acts as catalysts in conjunction with soil nutrient lowering the required nutrient density to feed them.

There is no need for the amount of nutrients most synthetic or organic farmers use because they ignore the evolutionary gap filled by soil microbiology. There is no need for a gross percentage of chemicals unless you ignore the evolutionary gap filled by optimal plant health. Both of these are facilitated by the microbiology these plants evolved to adapt to.

The closer we get to sustainability the closer we get to naturalized evolutionary microbiological populations that make all of this just happen.
 
V

VortexPower420

Active member
Veteran
That is what I was saying. I don't consider NPK operations "farming". Sustainable or bust.

I consider a farmer someone who values the land and use the best sustainable practice available to them. It could be biodynamics, permaculture, minimal till, no till, using biochar, use of compost, cover crops etc.

While being a miner is a "farmer" who cares little about the land and mines the soil of everything while only thinking about npk.

Notill definitely originates in the chem agriculture large scale mono crop soy corn and now GM alfalfa. Helps to keep what little organic matter you have if you donrlt introduce all that oxygen tto the soil from tilling.

I totally agree with you 100% percent. My approach my be different but same point.

No person is a farmer in my book unless they are sustainable.
 
M

MileHighGlass

Senior Member
Weird said:
No til came from chem farming?

All farming is simple farming unless you use chems?

No right way?

Sorry, I respect your efforts but I do not agree wholeheartedly with everything you are saying.

There is one right way, it is sustainable agriculture. How that is achieved however is where we have choices, but even then, most people don't really understand the concept (including many people in the agricultural industry).

In regards to the what is wrong in regards to sustainability there is more to it than chemicals like roundup and eagle20.

Both organic and synthetic methods are attributed to causing nitrification, a serious detrimental byproduct of agricultural practices.

Sustainable doesn't mean no chemicals, very specific organic methods or a compromise in the existing metrics one enjoys (amount of yield, % of cannabinoids, etc).

It means understanding causation in the agricultural processes and choosing the ones at your disposal that achieve maximum output using sustainable practices.

The part that most everyone is ignorant to, because they can't soil test their soil for them, is microbial activity.

With the proper microbes in the rhizopshere, not only can natural occurring levels of organic matter fulfill nutritional needs but robust soil microbiology acts as catalysts in conjunction with soil nutrient lowering the required nutrient density to feed them.

There is no need for the amount of nutrients most synthetic or organic farmers use because they ignore the evolutionary gap filled by soil microbiology. There is no need for a gross percentage of chemicals unless you ignore the evolutionary gap filled by optimal plant health. Both of these are facilitated by the microbiology these plants evolved to adapt to.

The closer we get to sustainability the closer we get to naturalized evolutionary microbiological populations that make all of this just happen.
Click to expand...

Runoff is one of the biggest problems of agriculture. Whether you are chemical or organic. The leaching nutrients get into our water ways, and will eventually kill of aquatic life among other things.

One of the best things about notill setups indoors is the ability to control runoff, thus saving water(which is a finite resource), and keeping the nutrients where they need to be. Which all equates to saving money.

Get on instagram and jump on the notill bandwagon. It is huge right now.

You too can use neem cake and karanja cake for absolutely no reason. Throw in some malted barley, and aloe and you have joined the hipster notill community.

Most of what's going on right now is a fad. Don't believe me? Then why have the hipster notillers all but stopped using the ever magical coconut water powder?

I run notill indoor, and outdoor for vegetables and I do not like to be considered a part of what is going on in the Cannabis community with regards to notill.

I was running notill before it was cool, and I will most likely run it when the hipster kids find another teet to suck.

It is but one way to garden in a sea of ways.
 
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