Cost of Analysis thread

curbiechris said:

how much does it cost (rough estimate) to test cannabis for thc/thca/cbd/cbn/etc/etc ?

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homebrew420 said:

here in CO the cost of analysis of Cannabinoids is around $50, and an additional $30 or so for terpenoid analysis. Not sure if they can accurately test for pesticide and residues here.

THis is on the consumer side, also independent growers are not allowed by law to have their samples tested. AND this is for the much less accurate GC tests, nobody here is using a LC machine

Peace

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AZClones said:

Thinkin' about setting up your own lab, eh?

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curbiechris said:

no, but great info! thanks. it would be nice to own a GC/LC (what is MS?) and operate it. i would be the button pusher with an associates.

i would want to send samples to a lab. a lot, but i am in a state that well... sighs.

in the meantime ill just learn about whats already set up.

thanks homebrew.$80 each test.

is that high or low in other areas?

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curbiechris said:

no, but great info! thanks. it would be nice to own a GC/LC (what is MS?) and operate it.

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jimbop said:

MS = mass spectrometer, which is the detector.

In the grand scheme of things, instrumental chromatography has two parts: the instrument that separates the sample that is injected, and the detector. In this instance, the separator is either a gas chromatograph, or a liquid chromatograph. The detector for cannabinoids would be something like a thermal conductivity detector (low sensitivity), flame ionization detector (very high sensitivity), or a mass spectrometer (very, very high sensitivity).

Sensitivity isn't the big deal. You're talking samples with, oh, 0.1-25% active ingredient (cannabinoids), while even the least sensitive of the above detectors will read to 10-100 ppm with ease. A well-tuned mass spec will easily do part per billion work. So, any of the detectors above will work for THC, CBD, and CBN on GC.

The separations side is important as you need to inject a sample full of multiple compounds, separate them (on a chromatographic column), and then quantify them. GC and LC are roughly equivalent from a standpoint of precision (getting numbers that are repeatable from sample to sample) and accuracy (getting numbers that are close to the actual value). Given the correct standards- which are now available from multiple suppliers- a decent operator who is trained in instrumental analysis will give repeatable, accurate results. That is not in question. What is in question is whether you get numbers that represent what is present in the plant products.

The primary factor here is that the carboxylated forms of cannabinoids will change with heat; these cannot be quantified accurately with a GC, because of the heat on column. So, to get THC-A, CBD-A, etc., you need to go with LC for separations in order to preserve the carboxylicacid group. Unfortunately, you cannot use the simple detectors listed above (TCD, FID) with LC; normally LC is coupled with either a UV/vis detector (shines a fancy light through the sample), or a mass spec detector. The LC/MS will set you back five or six figures for a new one, or lower five figures for one that is used and tends to break down. If you don't already know how to disassemble an LC pump and repair it, I would suggest you are not ready for LC/MS. This is a problem in that MS gives you one thing the other detectors cannot: the mass of the ion fragment. Time on column is one factor (the separations), and mass of fragments is another. Given both, the identity of a compound can be nailed down. There are exceptions, and those who understand the chemistry AND natural products are in demand for that reason: they know how to find the exceptions.

That is why LC/MS is favored within the industry: it quantifies and identifies the peaks that are found.

For quantification of cannabinoids to be consumed after heating- smoking, cooking, etc.- then GC is perfectly adequate and, in fact, preferred in that there is no compensation required in terms of having to calculate THC + decarboxylated THC-A, and CBD + CBD-A. For this, a used GC is fine; GC/FID is the preferred method, and used GCs run a fraction that of the used LC/MS, and have the added benefit of not needing to constantly replenish (and dispose of) the solvents used to run the column. Instead, you need heavy cylinders of ultra-high purity helium or, if you have big brassy ones, hydrogen, and the knowledge of how to use them and check for leaks and not kill everyone when something goes wrong. The alternative is a pricey gas generator, which limits the (potentially explosive) hydrogen it produces to just a few hundred milliliters.

And then there's knowing how to fix them. Selecting the correct column. Preparing standards, doing spikes, running checks. How to vent GCs correctly. How to deal with the inevitable LC waste. Sample logging, sample retention, sample disposal. Using a chromatography syringe correctly. Creating calibration curves. How to sample in a fashion that provides a figure that is representative of the concentration of cannabinoids in the entire inflorescence, and not just that which is sampled. Minutiae, you know.

Tricky stuff, and there's a reason it's left to the pros.

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curbiechris said:

I welcome all information regarding surrounding this topic. so please feel free to contribute.

how much does it cost (rough estimate) to test cannabis for thc/thca/cbd/cbn/etc/etc ?
How about cost of using the whole plant in testings(roughly)?

Cost at a lab or done at home?

how much does it cost for a terpene analysis?
would you recommend doing multiple tests to get a fair assessment?

Cost at a lab or done at home?

how much does it cost to test for mold, unhealthy bacteria, pesticides, and such?

Cost at a lab or done at home?

how much does it cost for dna testing?

Cost at a lab or done at home? What kind of DNA testing?


again, any info is appreciated. if you want to talk about how it would be easier to learn and use a gas chromatograph. tell me how. step by step.

You can learn to push the button here, but you need a science backround and classes to run a GC-FID properly, we had a service contract with HP to keep the machine properly calibrated, cleaned and running smooth and dependable. As for costs, just to many variables, what brand of GC, new or used?, auto injector, number of columns, FID, MS, what else? What kind of data display, what about the rent of the facility? materials used in the lab? the pay to a technician to run the GC, prepare samples, interpret the results?
-SamS

thanks

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