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Transplanting rooted cuttings into 1 gallon fabric pots at 30k Lumen

Hi folks,

Here the story....

I transplanted 1 week ago rooted cuttings (Critical) into 1 gallon smart pots. The coco brand i used is from UGRO, coco brick,
water capacity is 910% which is in my opinion quite a lot? Furthermore the package states EC<0.7.

I prepared my 4 year old stored coco brick 3 days before I tranplanted the cuttings. I used boiled water for a better penetration and for diying bad bacterias.
After cooling down I added also 10% Perlite and Mykos (1 Tablespoon for 1 gallon / 3 Liter).

I puted the fabric pots with no plants under my new warderobe (2 foot x 2 foot x 6 foot / 60 x 60cm x 200 cm )
and i did some heat test run tests with different effective airflows to check the behaviour of my new grow chamber.

3 days later my rooted cuttings arrived. I transplanted them into the fabric pots and gave them about a half liter with 1.0 EC, and i checked the drain. EC was 1.8. So i flushed immediatly with about 1.5 liter per pot with adjusted PH water of 6.0 with EC 0.3. Drain checked again with EC 0.9. Ok lets go under HPS. The rooted cuttings receive since day 1 about 30'000 Lumen.

I misted them with Rhizotonic.
They cuttings look fine next day but coco was still really soaked. Next day i misted them again. Till now here was no new growth of the cuttings visible.

The second day, because i was also reading a lot about growing again, I relised that the brand of my coco coir has beneficial Trichoderma in it and i realised they sure died with my hot water treatment.

I have seen pictures of mold with coco on the canna homepage if the coco receives a 30min steam treatment (quite similar too hot boiled water). So i added adjusted PH solved trichoderma solution with some Rhizotonic, about a 2 dl for each plant.

I misted the plants again with a Rhizotonic solution under the HPS light but the circulation fan was sure not running.

The next day suddenly all 6 plants looks not very well. The old lower leafs almost drying out (this leaf was already shortened as a fresh cut), the middle leafs are showing some brown points
and the whole plant looks slighly pale green. This change was in 1 day, so i guess i burned the plant during misting under HPS? My reference plant under LED light looks great.

What i have inspected:
- Better rinse the coco brick before transplant in this coco and check EC, i guess the filled coco bags are better rinsed, but i am scared from fungus gnats contamination, which i had in my old times...
- Soaked coco in bigger containers is not the best for fresh rooted cuttings, better let is slighly dry for 24h in the growroom for faster rootgrowth
- Don't mist the plant when the circulation fan is off under strong HPS light? I am sure with fan and T5 lamps no issue

My light is so strong with 30k Lumen, so i feed since day 4 with EC 1.3. Ok?

Now we are in day 7 of veg, the cutting starts to grow since two days and first roots on outer fabric pots are visible. New plant grow looks healthy but still little pale.
The clone is now about 6" / 15 cm. They started with a size of 4" / 10 cm. The Critical strain will gain about 200% stretch.
I intend today or tomorrow switch to 12/12, because of hight limitations. 60 cm plant / 2foot is about right.

How shall i proceed with my plants?

I guess still handwater at least the next seven days till roots have fully developed in the 1 gallon / 3 liter pot and then switch to automatic watering 3x/day.
I guess they can drink more? Or still some lockouts from the hot coco possible? Do i have to flush again?

I expect about 1 oz or 30 grams per plant.

Any advice is welcome

Thanks Coconutfarmer
 

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flylowgethigh

Non-growing Lurker
ICMag Donor
Welcome to ICMag, and Happy New Year. I ate up your post as I am in planning to set-up a tent myself, and totally ignorant of what to do. There was gold in that first post IMO.

They have an introduction page, you might go there and say hi.
 
Thanks mate :) HAPPPY NEW YEAR TOO !!!

I gave them today a good amount of nutrient solution EC 1.3 with at least 50% runoff and checked the drain, EC was about 0.1 to 0.2 lower, so i assume i can go up to 1.5 or 1.6 EC with the 1 week old rooted clone under this strong light
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
On day one it sounds like you fed them, but them washed it all away with 0.3 leaving them starved. Day 4 you fed them again and now they are happier. In this first few days they will of been stripping the Ca and Mg from the coco, along with K and some other metals. So more recent feeds have run-off lower than what you supplied as the coco got back what it could.

I think a good flood with a lot of Ca+Mg in that days feed should put the coco straight again. EC1.3 is usually fine with just LED users regularly bumping that to 1.6+

There are issues in the pics but no surprises. Just sort out the medium for now. If the drop in ec carries on after putting the cations back then you could think about a higher ec but I'm not expecting that.

A gallon for a cutting is indeed excessive. I have 1/4 gallon (6") final pots and they can support over 4.5oz which is 8x your expectation. I only have one intermediate size and find the step between them as large as I can handle for batch watering. Often some will be left in the smaller size after others have been moved to their finals as I'm just not willing to treat them as individuals. I want batches.
 
Great input.

I will keep feeding at 1.3.

The pots are only filled with 3/4 gallon of coco. My first coco grow was in a 2 gallon fabric container with 2 blumat dripppers each :)

My PPF is in a range of approx 300-400 umol/s at 25" distance from HPS bulb, LED provides more PPF and thats why they can go higher, right? :)

I just have some epsom salt on stock, shall i foliar feed with epsom solution EC 0.6 or add 0.1-0.2 EC in the nutrient solution? :)
 
The plants are all just fine and growing fast forward with great root development. I didn' t feed them with epsom or anything with CalMag

The drain EC was continously raising in the last 7 days from 1.3 to 1.6. I gave them today a good amount of water nutrient solution at EC=1.3 with drip clean, at least 50% or more drain to wash out the salt, now back to 1.4 in the coco medium. Now I increased the PPF to about 500 umol/s (40kLumen). My system is limited to 1000umol/s.

What I have learned meanwhile:
-Smaller pots are better for rooted cuttings, about half gallon / 1.8l max
-If you transplant a rooted clone in bigger pots, everything gets more complicated such as rooting and control of the medium, next time i will transplant just before the night starts :)
-If you dunk the cuttings into a Neemsolution, this will result that the plants are more
light sensitive

I have increased my goal, 1.5 Oz per plant
 
Meanwhile the plants are 60cm tall / 2 foot, plants looking great from far observation, the cola are forming but i guess i will have to toss them down tomorrow.

The 6 plants are now 5 weeks old, 4 full weeks in flower and...

...each leaf has about 150 russet mites on it, for a normal human with the naked almost not visible.

50k russet mites at least in the closet and still 4 weeks to go..

The plants would come through, but this will end with a huge amount of russets in my garden.

So the russets are in the second generation, unfortunately i was not blessed to find them in the 1. generation...

Yes i have treated them 2 times as a small rooted clone and about two weeks later with NeemAzal (=AzaMax), haha this pest is still sucking my leafes.

I also assume my ABS biopest protection of 500 active Amblyseius cucumeris since 4 days will not help alot.

(An ABS Sachet will release about 500 predetory mites in 4-6 weeks, about 10% are active at the arrival of the sachet (1 day shipment), and the rest will slow release, about 5-10 cucumeris a day with some higher peak values in 2.3. week of application.

6 plants have 500 predetory mites and have to fight against approx. 30k russet mites (can also be 2000 as lowest or 20k as max for each plant), russet density approx. 20-100 / cm2.

My refernce clone, meanwhile a motherplant is also still alive in another closet, already and will unfortunately go under 4 week special treatment....also not sure about that, but i could sure gain control...

I am not amused to change 30k Lumens with 30k russet mites
 

Mattbho

Active member
Your not supposed to use straight water on coco. Try half strength food. From my understanding when u use water u leach out the calcium . Then when u add nutrients the coco robs the calcium from the balanced nutrients. And the roots get an unbalanced food.
 
Yes i also agree that the straight water was causing the unbalanced food for my plants.

The plants are still in the closet, i will try t o upload some pics tonight.

I am still pretty confused about the informations with russet mites, since many growers in europe have them but they not even get noticed (mostly get russet with the clones), because russet mites do not like the smell of the trichomes and many do a sog or short veg. But i assume if you have a unnoticed investation in a longer veg period, the plant will not survive.

Cheers and thanks for reading
 
Let the pics with my commets speaks for them selfs :thank you:
 

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At least the HRM are under control, the pressure level is not too high since there are almost now visible signs.

In low humidity area (30-50%) the HRM hold up in the lower 1/3 of the plant. Meanwhile i know also what I noticed a few weeks ago on my Motherplant: The HRM will move to the soil if humidiy is very low and move back to the plant if humidity raise again.

The plants are now in day 40 of flower, if all runs well they will get harvested at day 54, the Critical strains would prefer to bloom some more days, i would guess about 60 days. But i want to end it up slighly faster to start a new one, of cource the yield will be reduced, about 0.6-0.8 Oz per Plant...let's see

Since the Cucumeris like 60% humidity i increased two weeks ago the humidity. But this has given some spots of powedery mildew. So now I increased the ventilation to 40%, which is anyway fine for the last weeks.

I learned alot again and will ajust my IPM in the near future.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
Your not supposed to use straight water on coco. Try half strength food. From my understanding when u use water u leach out the calcium . Then when u add nutrients the coco robs the calcium from the balanced nutrients. And the roots get an unbalanced food.

You speak of the cation exchange capacity, or cec as it's known. It's a bit like magnets, where the substrate has a number of south poles (negs/anions) that can offer homes for norths (pos/cations) to stick to. The number of these homes, is the count we talk of when giving a cec value to a substrate.

If you knock off or remove a cation such as calcium, the medium has no say in the type of cation that replaces it. It becomes like musical chairs.

Now I get sketchy
Not all cations are as sticky as each other. Calcium++ and Magnesium++ is often written. They are quite sticky. Where as most cations are just a single plus. Things like sodium+ and Potassium+ can actually be displaced by the ++ cations of calcium and magnesium. This is why we condition coco before use. A flush to get rid of unwanted salts, that replaces them in a balanced manner. As our conditioning flush is proportioned accordingly. This goes some way towards explaining why further flushing when in use is best done with a balanced feed. Personally I keep calcium and magnesium quite high when I flush coco, unless it's the final flush, as mag is harsh to smoke.

This is all just regurgitated forum posts. I have no formal training. There will be kinks in this. Perhaps.
 
Sounds like you have a quite good understanding of the nutrients chemical behaviour, one topic where i was never looked deep into. But i have a good knowledge in chemistry.

I found a notice in my old grow diary: "flush with a nutrient soulution EC 1.2-1.4 for a better flush result, overall there is less amount of water needed to reach the target drain value".


Thanks for the enlightment with the anions and cations, which gives then all sense to my notice :)

For the final flush 4-7 days before harvest i will run the nutrient soulution through the media first and afterwards flush with ph ajusted water till target drain EC value
 

The.Highlander

New member
Let the pics with my commets speaks for them selfs :thank you:
Nice job! Looking green, happy and healthy now :)



Just seen the beginning of this thread - most important thing for me, when growing in coco - I never feed with only straight PH adjusted water (unless in final stages of flush).


I use half strength, or quarter strength at the very least, when aiming to prevent over fertilization of coco coir. Simple reason being ... Feeding plants in hydro and coco, is not that dissimilar to humans being fed intravenously, I used to observe straight flush causing similar symptoms, the ''rattles'' as it called lol
 
Thanks Highlander ;-)

In the last 6 days i have flushed the EC Drain from about 2.5 at day 40 down to 1.6 at day 46, plants already slightly greening out, but thats fine. I still have some issue with the top feeding drippers, since they do not fully water the top of the coco and have some dry spots on the side which causes faster salt build ups despite i have a good drain.

Here and there a lower bud which is slighly infected with HRM is cutted away. The cucmeris predotory mites are mostly concentrated in the lower plants area, also due to higher humidity above the pots.

Leafs with the tiniest spores of PM, which can be seen much easier with this special bluefilter sunglasses are being cutted away.

It's all fine, they are under my control. I will try to upload some new pics soon...
 
I flushed few days ago, but this time only with water.
I guess its faster because the nutrients are not available in the higher ph range.

I harvested last night, gave them a extrem hard trim and let the buds now slow dry.

Offtopic:
The wardrobe is now being sanitized for at least for 3 hours equibirilium at 48-52°C (118-125°F) without plants of course to kill all RM, eggs, larva etc.

I hope the PM as well, does someone know the exact temperature range to kill PM .

Very importend is a strong circulation to hit the whole area during the heat disinfestation. I go with approx. 1000W/m3 heatpower and a 50W/m3 fanpower.

Quote:
Heat disinfestation is a method of pest control and is based on the principle that mites, beetles and moths or their oviposition, larvae, pupae, are killed by protein coagulation at a temperature of approx. 42°C. It is often used in flour mills, warehouses and similar operations to avoid the use of pesticides.
(Source: Wikipedia.org)

==>The proteins coagulates at 42°C (107°F) :)
 
I have noticed if you chop the plant some earlier they hold more chlorophyll, so the cure takes at least one ore two weeks longer to take out the harshness
 

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