Not really hitting my stride yet, any suggestions how to improve?

Hello Guys
I use 30 gallon totes often to hold two plants. I found movers dollys at Harbor Freight for 8 bucks each. I do put a piece of plywood on there for a larger base and they roll fine from veg to flower room. I stick a metal fence post in each corner to hold the netting when the strain needs support.
I had wondered if I could get away with no till in that size.

Rodehazrd said:

Hello Guys
I use 30 gallon totes often to hold two plants. I found movers dollys at Harbor Freight for 8 bucks each. I do put a piece of plywood on there for a larger base and they roll fine from veg to flower room. I stick a metal fence post in each corner to hold the netting when the strain needs support.
I had wondered if I could get away with no till in that size.

Click to expand...

Idea situation IMO.
Instead of "no till" consider "limited till".

Be a skilled surgeon, not a butcher.
If you're adding a nitrogen amendment, its better to scratch them in. Less gassing off.
Don't do the whole surface at once. Small areas and let them heal.


I see HTP has grow beds.
I think I could build my own frame out of metal pipe and put wheels on them.

h.h. said:

I have different memories of the HA's.
Not so smooth.

Click to expand...

Different sides of the coin? I was using them and they were using me to make $$. I put on many largish dances/concerts/festivals. The ones with the 'big red machine' were always the ones with less fights and security issues. BBB; Sorry to sidetrack the thread

Microbeman said:

Different sides of the coin? I was using them and they were using me to make $$. I put on many largish dances/concerts/festivals. The ones with the 'big red machine' were always the ones with less fights and security issues. BBB; Sorry to sidetrack the thread

Click to expand...

They were security at a place I lived at once upon a time.
I never had a problem.
Just minded my own business.

I may try this setup when I get home.
From HTP:

Microbeman said:

BBB; Sorry to sidetrack the thread

Click to expand...

We didn't even have pictures until page 12, so no biggy


@h.h.
That is sort of what I was looking to gear towards after this round.


This will be the I believe 5th grow where I run up to 29 5gal pots.
The only reason I can still think of to do that when wanting to grow organic with "some till"/living soil is the desire to pheno hunt and find a mum and dad or two.


To that end, I think I can be satisfied with my results. At least now that the buckwheat hulls are gone.




But long-term, I should definitely look into growing a lot less plants in a lot larger pots/beds.
Crunching the numbers (going by root pouch available sizes), I could fit either 4 25gal pots or 1 150gal pot/bed in the chamber..
I think 4 25 gal pots are fine. Putting them on rolling boards, that should afford me ~30cm in length and ~10cm in width of working space. Should be enough to move them around and get in between things, once they are on rolling boards.
This would also be good as my plants are sitting on the floor, just a thin sheet of insulation below and then pond liner above.
Lifting them a bit off the ground has been a goal of mine for a while.


In the 4 25gal pots I could then work towards simply improving my growing methods and organic gardening methods. Surely the plants will grow much healthier and overall "better" and the soil should be able to work everything out on its own without so much fiddling about.
Also should be able to run 2 or even 3 plants in a pot on occasion which would bring the number up to 8 or 12 plants which will be more than enough for me, aside from pheno hunting.


I have another, much smaller, chamber that I could use for flowering. Maybe I just swap towards pheno hunting in that with even smaller pot sizes? Maybe I turn the smaller flowering chamber into a hydro room to that extent? I have a set of 2 gal pots that I could use for that if I stay with soil. Could probably fit 20 of those in the small chamber...
Would just have to veg in solo cups, then transplant to the 2 gal pots, veg for a week or two and then flip. Should be possible...






As it stands I will probably finish this round, see if I can keep the clones alive this time around and get me a keeper mum or two for the future and then maybe go one more round in this small pot setup with the Sativas I have queued up (so far I grew 4 rounds of "testers" so to speak and stayed away from the "magic beans" in order to make sure I have things dialed in before I pop those --- good move by all accounts... I can live with not having a clone out of my 50 Critical Mass pheno hunt, would be a lot more pissed if that happened with the Mango Haze or Malawi or Neville's Haze in my stash).
If all goes well, by summer I have a couple of mums from this round and a couple of sativa mums and then I can comfortably switch to 25 gal pots as pheno hunting can take a bit of a back seat.


Then I can refine my growing methods and prepare for my farm project (which is currently on hold ).


Or maybe start some breeding. Have never made seeds before, definitely on my bucket list and definitely want to "breed my own strain" eventually.

Times like these, I always brewed a lot of ACT.
The more I used, the healthier my plants.
Not because of the ACT.
It was because it kept me busy and away from worrying about my plants.
There is no holy grail.

Find out what works for you and appreciate the differences.

h.h. said:

There is no holy grail.

Find out what works for you and appreciate the differences.

Click to expand...

From the little experience I was able to gather, I wholeheartedly agree.
I said that elsewhere before:
When I started to do research, I was under the impression the differences in strains, how it is grown, cured etc. etc. etc. makes differences like night and day. I wanted purple, I wanted sweet, I wanted bubblegum, I wanted blueberry, I wanted orange all that jazz.


After around 4 grows, some more, some less successful, I came to the conclusion that we are likely dealing with nuances and not night and day differences.
To me, it was usually a lot more nuanced at least. But sometimes the extremes on both ends of the spectrum are indeed night and day.
Like the MasterKushxSkunk from MRN I grew. Had one pheno that was foxtailing, very Sativa leaning and had a strong smell of sweet/minty/bublegummy or sth unidentifiable but very pleasant. Same strain, different pheno (highly indica leaning, compact short and stoute) reeked extremely but nothing like bud. Camphor was the best analogy I came up with. During flower I sometimes did think "burned rubber" or "tar" or something. But camphor fits it best. Would be great for a stealth grow when smell is a factor.





But for the most part, especially concerning the effects/potency, the differences are quite nuanced. Especially when it comes to taste, I figured that this is probably for the most part from the overlap between our olfactory complex and taste buds. Had stuff that smelled kinda like bubblegum and through that smell, while smoking, made you think you taste bubblegum. But I doubt there is any untreated/untampered bud out there that actually tastes like bubblegum. Still have some hope though




Yet, every once in a while, every couple hundred or what seeds, one does stumble over something on the extreme end of this or that spectrum and then it is something quite "special".


Still agree, I doubt there is a plant that "has it all" or any "holy grail" or the like. Still fun to look for these outliers on the spectrum that have extreme this or that and then cross them with other outliers who exhibit other extremes and see what comes out. Sometimes it is something awesome to be sure

Quick update without pics:


I never mentioned my RH and temps and I recently looked at those again and realized that while I had gotten temps in order (I was moving between 18 °C and 24°C all the time, 18°C being a tad low during the night - fixed that with a heater and am comfortably between 22 °C and 32 °C now), I had not taken care of my RH.


For long periods I was running as low as 10% RH and rarely got over 20%...
Added a humidifier and am now hovering around 30% RH, hitting peaks of around 40% when watering and the like.
Still too low afaik but at least not that extreme.
The plants have reacted positively and my VPD being so out of whack due to the low RH also explains a lot with the low yields in the past during winter with the heater keeping the temps in check but RH dropping massively as a result...




Otherwise not much to report, a few great looking ones, a few decent looking ones. Some serious resin production on some of the phenos, some lacking a bit.


Overall they look healthy but I again concur that I did myself a disservice by defoliating this way and so extremely.
The plants where I didn't go "as hard" on the defoliation look a lot better and have better flower clusters.


I might still eat my words if they do swell up considerably in the coming weeks (as the proponents of such aggressive defoliation swear) but I think even then there is a sweet spot that I way overshot.


On the positive side: I do have a lot less larf/popcorn bud as a result and have not had the dreaded hermies on lower nodes as I had in the past.


Did find one plant that full on hermed though, a weak Crumbled Lime pheno.
A nod to its chemdawg/hermie heritage no doubt.
Got rid of the herm and inspected all other plants carefully, no other hermies so far.




I topdressed with wood ashes and gave them another "ACT" with kelp, krill, ewc, molasses and malted barley.


Was planning to let the plants be for now, only water going forward.


Next action I would take is harvest (maybe some supporting/stalking in between which I do as it comes) and then I would remove the stalks/rootball, plant the next plant in there and topdress generously with everything (ewc, kelp, krill, rock dusts, neem, etc.) and go for the next round.
Hope that sounds about right.


All feedback welcome, as always.


BBB out

hey bbb, I like your plans with going with the 4 25gals. If you still wish to pheno hunt, you can just pop 10 plants per pot and veg them for 2-3 weeks and flip, you should be able to finish them with enough space (if you get to toss a few males) to get a good smoke representation for your selection.


I run 8x 15 gallon pots and was thinking I would have issues pheno hunting. Right now I'm going through a few packs of seeds this run, and hopefully I can find a keeper or two.



Crazy how low your RH is lol must live in the desert or something Maybe hang a few towels with the bottom of it touching a bucket of water so it can wick the water up the towel, and have a fan blowing at it so it evaporates as it goes... I've seen people use this technique in mushroom cultivation down in poor countries where they can't afford electricity and such... Worth a try for sure.


I think that defoliation with this low RH maybe is not so great for the plants... I bet the leafs help create a micro climate which helps stabilize the humidity inside the plant... just my thoughts tho no real science behind it

The original sensimilla was grown in a desert in Mexico by a cartel gardener/botanist. We grew for 25 years in a very arid climatic area. All the worried talk of RH is amusing.

Some of the best cannabis ever came from arid zones and some from humid zones.

Like Ford invented the car?
Get your point though.

Yeah the desert logic was also why I didn't worry too much about the RH.


Figured it might do as much good in terms of resin production and the like as it might do harm in terms of foliage and bud development.


But reading up on VPD again it does seem plausible to me that I maybe traded off great resin production for a lot of weight or something.


Will keep an eye on it and keep testing.


What I also noticed that around Day 40 of flower with some 60 day strains involved, I was missing a lot of smell ...


Now with the RH cranked up to around 30-40%, the smells have showed up as well.


One of the big reasons my RH was that low was likely also that I had my ventilation run too high.
Dimming it down did a lot for increasing RH .

h.h. said:

Like Ford invented the car?
Get your point though.

Click to expand...

I actually meant 'mass produced' making Ford the man as well

Another no pic update:
dimming the exhaust fan further down from around 30% to around 10/15% seems to have done a lot of good.
For the first time since I built the growroom, the thermostats are actually doing something as well.
Couple of times a day the thermostat kicks the exhaust fan into 100% mode to reduce the chamber's temperature, turning over the air inside along the way.
This apparently means that in between the thermostat kicking in, the atmosphere inside the chamber "builds up", i.e. both temps and RH increase, then get balanced out when the thermostat kicks in and gets build up again.
Seems the plants like it. I definitely notice the smell now. Think that was an important step.
In the past I just kept the exhaust fans at ~30-40% dimmed and that probably resulted in too much turnover of the air, leading to reduced temps and RH. Since I run CMH, I actually always ended up having to heat the growspace aside from summer months ...




Anyway, another conclusion I can probably make by this point is that the whole defoliation business is indeed not good for me.
It's been almost 3 weeks now since I did the last defoliation and the plants have not bounced back as I would have hoped/expected and I am certain at this point that things would look a lot better and heavier if I had not done that.


My hope was that the lower, smaller nodes/buds are allowed to catch up to the top buds in this manner and I would have less larf/popcorn buds with this method.
To me it now looks that both my top buds and lower node buds are just held back by this methods and stop swelling up when you defoliate.
The plants now put energy into developing new foliage, which after 3 weeks is not even half way to reaching the level of foliage it had before.
Really seems to have stunted the overall development of the plant.


Won't do that again.




I have about 2-3 weeks for the first G13xSkunk plants to be nearing harvest (60 days according to the website).
The 2 that look furthest along are caked in resin and just by looking, I wouldn't say they could be much more resinous.
One of the pair also has amazing, sweet, bubblegummy, monty smells. Very strong.


The only thing missing from them, again, is weight.
Especially one of the two has grown about as well as I could have hoped (I think). Will snap a few pics of the two and ask y'all a few questions.


Let's see, if they do swell up a bit more in the next 2-3 weeks, it could still be a successful project for the moment.
Otherwise I would say I shot myself in the foot with that defoliation.


Also have to figure out some stuff vis-a-vis how to shape them while growing, what size of plant is realistic for a 5 gal pot etc. etc.


Will be back with more pics and questions soonish.

Nature knows more than idiots on forums and youtube.

Microbeman said:

I actually meant 'mass produced' making Ford the man as well

Click to expand...

Actually you did say "sensimilla" so you were probably linguistically correct.

Microbeman said:

Nature knows more than idiots on forums and youtube.

Click to expand...

Still learning to listen to mother nature and understand what she's telling me though.
And untill I can understand what she's telling me, the folks online help me learn and understand

Another quick update:
Yesterday was about week 3 of cutting the clones in flower and putting them in my new DIY aero cloner.


All but 2 already had good strong roots after 2 weeks. At week 3, even the 2 stragglers had good strong roots and the rest were really impressive by that time.


Had 100% cloning success this time around, with monstercropped clones, nothing to sneeze at.


I had another batch of clones (also monstercropped) in rockwool cubes.
They also rooted, not quite 100%. But just rockwool cubes and water also worked ok for me. But compared to the aero cloner, the rockwool clones looked super sickly and mostly dried out. They died very fast as well once they got roots, only a limited time window, I would say below 1 week, to get them into soil with that method.
But you do notice the lack of health, massively, compared to the aero cloner clones. Those looked basically almost like the day they were cut from the donor plant, just with roots. Some very limited and mild yellowing on a few of them, but most were completely green still.


I will discard the rockwool cubes or keep them as an emergency backup and move forward with the aero cloner. Also much easier to transplant afterwards into the nursery pots, just straight into the soil and done.




So cloning is figured out for me




On the grow/flower side of things, I got a PM by a member who suggested I should change my watering habits.
So far I always watered till I had a little runoff, then let the pots dry out more or less completely before I water again. This could take about a week, sometimes even more. With the straw mulch layer, I told myself the top soil doesn't completely dry out in that time frame...


What the member suggested was to water much more frequently (maybe daily/every other day) but never until runoff and overall with a lot less water. So just getting the top layer wet, he was saying maybe about 200-300 ml per watering, not much more...




I have read several times now that the whole runoff thing in organic soil is not good as you basically flush out all the good microbial life etc.
This seems plausible to me as I have observed there always being a bunch of worms (have even found a snail, twice, fat healthy looking fuckers) below the pot somehow. In the past I had thought they crawled out over the top/edge of the pot and when they couldn't find soil to dig in, they just hid below the pots again since its moist and dark there.


By now I believe that these worms basically got flushed out of the soil during watering while still being tiny or eggs or whatever and then develop and live below the pots because they got nowhere else to go...


So yeah, trying to limit runoff and change my watering habits to a lot less water a lot more frequently is next on my list of things to change/try.




Other than that, not much to report. Plants are trucking along. The control group that I didn't defoliate looks a lot better than the ones I did. But overall we look ok/good.
2 of G13xSkunk going to be done in a week or two I believe, the rest a few more weeks after that.


1 of the G13xAfgHz main stems flopped over the other day and I had to stake it but nothing broke, so should be ok. I think the plant just got floppy because I hadn't watered it in about a week. The first of the plants were starting to let their leafs hang, when I checked and saw the one stem flopped over.




All the best
BBB