Roots need a little assistance :(

Hello friends, Im in need of a little more brain mass here :-D I needa figure this damn water out in my DWC veg tub... its killing me with SUPER SLOW growth.

Im used to getting 1/2 - 1inch growth per day at times... I'm barely getting 1inch growth per WEEK for the past 5 weeks. I know that once conditions are dialed in, roots will shoot out
and be nice brilliant white clean color. My roots just dont proceed... maybe i need some kind of B vitamin possibly? Or possibly a dose of bleach in my res every once in a while?
Im usually an organic grower,, outdoors 99% the time.. indoor.. well i was doing good at my last location.. but this new house is killing me with water issues... im almost debating on going
non-organic for a few months to make back the funds I lost from trouble shooting... but i never went the non-organic route, if anyone has any input on how to use bleach safely within
a hydro res please chime in :-D I also have Physan 20 if
that might help clean anything...



here is lots of info of whats going on and pictures to assist.

THese plants are only in VEG... granted having issues with my flowering too atm but well get these straightened out first.



HYDROPONICS - 12 gallon DWC with 4 air lines.

How long has this problem been going on? weeks

Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? Nope, 4x4 cinder block room

What system are you running? DWC

What STRAIN are you growing? Big Bud

What was the establishing technique? Clones

What is the age of your plants? Age of clone is about 5 weeks..

How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?
Fresh res with Lucas form was mixed up 4 days ago.

How tall are the plants? pushing 1foot now.

What PHASE are the plants in? Vegetative

What Technique are you using? ?? dont understand this.

What substrate/medium are you using? 3.75in net pots hydroton

What is the Water temperature? 65 'F

What color are your roots? Picture added below

Are your roots slimy? Not really ... but i guess a little since they look to stick together.

What Nutrient's are you using? Advanced Nutes

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water?
Using Lucas formula, Micro:Bloom at 4ml:4ml gall


What order are you mixing your nutrients? Micro then mix
really well, then Bloom

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? Right now its about 365ppm

What is the pH of the "Tank"? 5.9-6.1

How often are you testing your pH/PPM/EC/TDS? Same time every day

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment?
Yup i place my PPM meter in calib solution while I wait to use it, then when I test my water, I put some in a cup and let the meter sit in the cup for about 5 mins to stabilize.

When was your last watering? I add back about 1/4gal every 2 days, so only added back 1/2gal since i changed the res water

What is your water temps? 65 'F

When was your last feeding change? 4 days ago went from
normal Advanced schedule to using Lucas.

How often do you clean your system: Was done 4 days ago, before that it was every 1-2 weeks.

What size bulb are you using? CFLs 6 of them... 26watters 5600K

How old is the bulbs you are using? Could probably use new ones
but top growth on plant is great its the roots that are of concern.

What is the distance to the canopy? 12 inches

What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 50ish

What is the canopy temperature? 68 'F

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
55 - 70 'F

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 16inch oscillating Fan.

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? The room is open to another room, that I frequently walk in and out of throughout the day. The door allows the exchange of air.

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Nope

Is your water HARD or SOFT? 12ppm 7.4pH rain water

What water are you using? RAIN / SNOW

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? Nope

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? 1/4 strength Azamax about 5 weeks ago... also used Diatomatious Earth on the walls and cracks of the room without the plants in the room though.

Are plant's infected with pest's? Not a single sign of other life.


If there is any other info that someone might need to help solve this issue a little better, please let me know.

Thanks everyone for your help. I use no additives, only using Advanced Nutes, Micro and Bloom thats all right not..
Should I maybe add a little bleach to the solution?

Pictures say a lot also.

Also have a video of what the bubbles look like.
I dont have air stones, I just stuck the hoses to the bottom of
the tub.. and heated a piece of wire up red out and poked a single hole in every air hose for bubbles.
Using the Eco Plus 3 air pump.. the one that comes with the 4 port manifold. I think its the 18watt one.


http://youtu.be/rx-bcKpSSXg

^^^^Link to bubble video ^^^^^^


Cheers

Those are terrible roots, they're not white more grey .... clean up required

Leaves are too light, lock out or not enough feed

Flush and make new feed solution up

I think you need to worry about your roots before adding any nutrients. I always advise to add an EWC Tea to fight root issues. But like I said dont add nutrients until your roots start showing an improvement. At that size they dont really need much nutrients. Straight water will help your root issues.

Why does your solution look so brown?

Are your buckets lightproof?

In DWC, I prefer NO organics so tea would be the last thing that I would use at this point. You are better off changing out your entire system, while soaking the roots in some peroxide solution, then use chlorine or chloramine (Dutchmaster zone) in your system from here on out.

Try following the advanced nutes instructions that are on the bottle.I'm using sensi A and B at full strength and there are no problems......my water just gets a light tint of brown,not dark like yours! And my roots are bone white!

I'll vote starvation, both light and food. 150 watts isn't much. A 150 HPS emits 46,000 foot candles at 4", 5,000 at 12". CFLs have no where near the power of HID watt per watt. What little light you have is almost fully dissipated before it hits the plants.

365ppm is less than I feed an unrooted cut. You have full blown plants.

Depending on where you are, rain water may be the deadliest thing you can put in your grow. Dirt has bugs, mold, fungi, worms, bacteria, enzymes etc to deal with acid rain. DWC has none of these. While there are exceptions to every rule, most will do far better with tap water.

While bugs were prevalent in my E&F days, I've found DWC is bug free. You probably have no need for Azamax. It's poison. You have nothing to poison... except your plants.

FreezerBoy said:

I'll vote starvation, both light and food. 150 watts isn't much. A 150 HPS emits 46,000 foot candles at 4", 5,000 at 12". CFLs have no where near the power of HID watt per watt. What little light you have is almost fully dissipated before it hits the plants.

365ppm is less than I feed an unrooted cut. You have full blown plants.

Depending on where you are, rain water may be the deadliest thing you can put in your grow. Dirt has bugs, mold, fungi, worms, bacteria, enzymes etc to deal with acid rain. DWC has none of these. While there are exceptions to every rule, most will do far better with tap water.

While bugs were prevalent in my E&F days, I've found DWC is bug free. You probably have no need for Azamax. It's poison. You have nothing to poison... except your plants.

Click to expand...

Nice thank you for your comment freezerboy.

So far what I finished today was getting the lights to be adjustable, so that was a success. So now i can get right
on top of the plants with my CFLs.

about the rain.... well here is some info on it.
I live nowhere near any industrial commercial area.
Im in farm country lol.
pH is about 7.4 - 7.6
ppm is a constant 9 - 12
I drink it without any issues... lol I figured it test it out,
been drinking it for about 2 months now, feel better actually.
My "tap water" is WELL WATER, not city water. Its ppm is 475, and plants just hate it, tried using it many times but it doesnt work, im in the process of getting the water tested, but dont have the funds yet.

I have high vibrations for the near future for my little friends here :-D

Thank you for your help :-D

Cheers

As long as you've tried your "tap" you have solid reasons for choosing another source.

I don't know the "proper" distance from canopy to lamp for CFLs. Employ the "Back of the hand" technique. Place back of hand (not your palm) between canopy and lamp. Find the closest spot where hand is comfortable (not what you can endure you big manly stud muffin you) There's your spot.

Definately go with the Dutchmaster Zone. Works great and the plants love it. Your water should be clear man. Almost crystal. I use Dutchmaster (not trying to plug-shit just works) A and B. I run my veg at 900ppm. Get a continuous meter online. $110 with shipping. You also dont have to continuosly calibrate it either. I know one truth: organics and dwc dont go together. $75 gets you a UV aquarium filter. Now we're talkin. I had the slime once. Never again if you go the synthetic route. NPK and trace elements. Thats it.

Oh and more air. Always more air. My tubs swirl. Air stones, powerheads AND 2" undercurrent. Thats how I roll.

FreezerBoy said:

I'll vote starvation, both light and food. 150 watts isn't much. A 150 HPS emits 46,000 foot candles at 4", 5,000 at 12". CFLs have no where near the power of HID watt per watt. What little light you have is almost fully dissipated before it hits the plants.

365ppm is less than I feed an unrooted cut. You have full blown plants.

Depending on where you are, rain water may be the deadliest thing you can put in your grow. Dirt has bugs, mold, fungi, worms, bacteria, enzymes etc to deal with acid rain. DWC has none of these. While there are exceptions to every rule, most will do far better with tap water.

While bugs were prevalent in my E&F days, I've found DWC is bug free. You probably have no need for Azamax. It's poison. You have nothing to poison... except your plants.

Click to expand...

I was with you until you stated DWC is bug free and bashed Azamax.

DWC is NOT bug free, just fewer issues in the res... you still have plants though.

Azamax is a perfectly acceptable, OMRI listed (yeah, I know... a bunch of crooks)organic product and completely safe when used properly (which doesn't include spraying it in flower).

Saves a lot of growers from having to use chem alternatives.


Bump your feed up to around 800 and the light green will go away. Stick with Lucas until you fully understand nutes and your plants.

Stay Safe!

Hydro-Soil said:

DWC is NOT bug free, just fewer issues in the res... you still have plants though.

Click to expand...

I haven't seen a bug since I signed up here and switched to DWC in Dec, 2007. I still have plants, just no bugs.

FreezerBoy said:

I haven't seen a bug since I signed up here and switched to DWC in Dec, 2007. I still have plants, just no bugs.

Click to expand...

Spider mites don't care what you grow in.

FreezerBoy said:

I haven't seen a bug since I signed up here and switched to DWC in Dec, 2007. I still have plants, just no bugs.

Click to expand...

You also live in a non med-friendly state, don't associate with any other growers and don't have anything to do with anyone... when it comes to cannabis.

I grew in dwc without bugs for 7 years also... for the same reasons listed above. dwc != bug-free.

All it takes is an infected environment outside your house and you will have issues. We just got lucky.

Stay Safe!

I've even seen root aphids in DWC before.

@OP I'm kinda confused as to whether you're using organics or synthetic chemicals. I skim read some of the bigger posts, I have to admit... If you're using synthetics I would stop adding anything living to your res. You don't need enzymes, molasses, tea, or any of that crap. Then you can add household bleach (6%) at 1ml bleach per 10 gallons water daily. It's safe to bump the amount of bleach up to 0.2-0.3 ml/g as a "shock" to kill off the junk, but for maintence purposes I recommend staying at the 0.1ml/g range. Like I said you gotta add that daily, then you won't have anything at all going on in your res. Just some happy roots.

If you're using organics in hydro, I'd just ask why...

IMO
-100% water change, rinse the slime off the roots if you can
-raise PPM, 365 is really low for 5 weeks...try 600
-pick up some SM-90, works great for me. My roots are like ropes
-Read freezerboy threads, he and his threads were a tremendous help for me when I started hydro

good luck!

i still dont get the debate on if its better to go beneficial w/ bacteria or go sterile.....it seems that some most ppl inoculate w/ bennies