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ghuser113 · Jan 15, 2012

here is a problem i keep having about the same time every run 35-40 days into flower here are some pics and i will fill the hydro q list out

How long has this problem been going on? 2wks
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? no
What system are you running? areo flow 18 site GH
What STRAIN are you growing? chrystle nirvana
What was the establishing technique? clone
What is the age of your plants? 35-40 days flower
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now? 1 or 2 weeks
How tall are the plants? 1ft 2 ft
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? FLOWER
What Technique are you using? not sure?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Hydroton
What is the Water temperature? 70-76
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?no slime white
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) Gh 3part and flora plus koolbloom and cal/mag
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*micro75ml gro 0ml bloom 110ml cal/mag25ml koolbloom30ml in 10gals on RO Ro comes out at 10ppm
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless)as soon as my ppm gets down to 400-500ppm
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless)same as above
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?as soon as i saw pre bloom
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) micro1st cal/mag 2nd bloom3rd then koolbloom and sometimes flora +
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using 950-990
What is the pH of the "Tank"?5.8-6.0
How often are you testing your pH/PPM/EC/TDS? yes
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment?yes
When was your last watering? everyday
What is your water temps?70-78
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)4days ago doing a flush to c if it helps right now
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out, water replace with clean water and nutrients? dont just do a change of nutes most of the time
What size bulb are you using?one 1000W hps and 1400w hps
How old is the bulbs you are using? about 4 months and 6months
What is the distance to the canopy? about 20-24ins
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?40-50%
What is the canopy temperature?70-80
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)75-80 in the day 65-70 at night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) have a vortex 740 cooling both lights
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?vortex 740 cooling lights pulling out air and pulling outside air in at the same time passive air system
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?osalating
Is your water HARD or SOFT?soft
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap? Im using RO ppm is 10ppm out of the system
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives? 10ppm
Are you using water from a water softener?City water
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched..No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
Are plant's infected with pest'sNo pest No chemicals

paulo73 · Jan 15, 2012

The new growth appears to have a healthy green.
If that is the case just pull the more affected ones and they will be fine.

DiscoBiscuit · Jan 15, 2012

How long has this problem been going on? 2wks

Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? no

What system are you running? areo flow 18 site GH

What STRAIN are you growing? chrystle nirvana

What was the establishing technique? clone

What is the age of your plants? 35-40 days flower

How long have they been in there mixture they are in now? 1 or 2 weeks

How tall are the plants? 1ft 2 ft

What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? FLOWER

What Technique are you using? not sure?

What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Hydroton

What is the Water temperature? 70-76

What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? no slime - white

What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) Gh 3part and flora plus koolbloom and cal/mag

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water?
*Knowing the brand is very helpful* micro75ml gro 0ml bloom 110ml cal/mag25ml koolbloom30ml in 10gals on RO Ro comes out at 10ppm

How often are you feeding? (If using soiless) as soon as my ppm gets down to 400-500ppm

How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) same as above

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? as soon as i saw pre bloom

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) micro1st cal/mag 2nd bloom3rd then koolbloom and sometimes flora +

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using 950-990

What is the pH of the "Tank"? 5.8-6.0

How often are you testing your pH/PPM/EC/TDS? yes

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment? yes

When was your last watering? everyday

What is your water temps? 70-78

When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) 4days ago doing a flush to c if it helps right now

How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out, water replace with clean water and nutrients? dont just do a change of nutes most of the time

What size bulb are you using? one 1000W hps and one 400w hps

How old is the bulbs you are using? about 4 months and 6months

What is the distance to the canopy? about 20-24ins

What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 40-50%

What is the canopy temperature? 70-80

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) 75-80 in the day 65-70 at night

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) have a vortex 740 cooling both lights

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? vortex 740 cooling lights pulling out air and pulling outside air in at the same time passive air system

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? osalating

Is your water HARD or SOFT? soft

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap? Im using RO ppm is 10ppm out of the system

If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives? 10ppm

Are you using water from a water softener? City water

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched. No

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?

Are plant's infected with pest's No pest No chemicals

Differentiating your answers from the questions will net more responses.

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) micro1st cal/mag 2nd bloom3rd then koolbloom and sometimes flora +

I suggest micro first, the bloom. (That's your base.) Any supplements should be added after your base is already mixed.

Try (base only) until you get used to the results. Add supplements one at a time so you'll know whether they're helping or hurting.

Put some plain tap water in a white container. If it has a blue hue it's chlorine. If it has a yellow hue, it's choloramine.

If your municipality uses chloramine to treat your tap water, I'd consider another water source. Not sure if your RO system will remove chloramine.

ghuser113 · Jan 15, 2012

my ro system runs into a tub that hold it with pumps in it and im not sure but dont chlorine,choloramine evap after sitting over night?

DiscoBiscuit · Jan 15, 2012

paulo73 is right, your plants may be growing out of their problem. If the visible symptoms don't progress to other areas, you may be ok.

Chloramine won't evaporate from the water. Not sure whether your filter removes chloramine.

Call your water utility and ask whether they use chloramine to treat your water. If not, you have nothing to worry about. Chlorine will evaporate, you just have to give it the necessary time according to how much is present.

If your utility says they use chloramine...

Try an advanced search by title for "chloramine" and there may be usable info. You should be able to find out whether your filter removes it or whether you have to consider another water source. Good luck.

Hydro-Soil · Jan 15, 2012

Got a EC/TDS/PPM meter?

Dose a gallon of water with your Cal-Mag and check the strength against what it should read. There have been some triple strength bottles of cal-mag going around.... is this a new bottle?

I also have to say this is the first time I've seen KoolBloom used in place of GH Flora Bloom... read it being used the other way but I guess it shouldn't matter as long as you have the ratio to your micro correct.

IF what you're mixing is close enough to the lucas ratios you don't need the cal-mag anyway. I'd suggest a cheaper garden grade epsom salt if you run into mag issues. All the calcium you need is in the micro you're using.

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

DiscoBiscuit · Jan 15, 2012

"bloom 3rd, then koolbloom" - I took it to mean the OP is using bloom for base and kb as a supplement.

ghuser113, hope you're not talking about kb powder. No much room for error with that stuff.

touringfunkband · Jan 16, 2012

Hydro-Soil said:
IF what you're mixing is close enough to the lucas ratios you don't need the cal-mag anyway. I'd suggest a cheaper garden grade epsom salt if you run into mag issues. All the calcium you need is in the micro you're using.

I'm assuming he's using calmag to adjust for the fact he's using RO water. You still think he needs to omit the calmag? I just had read from several people that you needed it when using RO.

Hydro-Soil · Jan 16, 2012

touringfunkband said:
I'm assuming he's using calmag to adjust for the fact he's using RO water. You still think he needs to omit the calmag? I just had read from several people that you needed it when using RO.

Yes... dump the cal/mag

When you mix your nutes according to the Lucas method you won't need to add anything to your R/O water. Possibly some magnesium if you get a mag hungry strain, hence the epsom salts as a standby.

Lucas formula is a balanced ratio of growing elements. You're only giving the plant what it needs. This is why you can run a res with lucas nutes in it for almost 6 months without changing... it gets toxic over time from the pH up/down you use... not because there are leftover nutes the plants haven't eaten.

I've been using Lucas with various nutes and always with R/O water and I've never run into calcium deficiencies or even mag deficiencies that weren't cured through a proper pH swing. The swing from 5.2 - 5.8 is important... VERY important. A lot of 'failed' or 'sub-optimal' Lucas Formula grows can be attributed to the lack of a full or consistent swing of the pH, it's necessary for the plant to easily absorb all nutes.

/rant off

Sorry, sore subject.

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Hydro-Soil · Jan 16, 2012

Ok... just re-read what you're putting in there and see that you ARE using the bloom....

7.5micro/11bloom? Did you adjust the Lucas Formula for use with the KoolBloom or is this someone else's recipe that you're following?

ghuser113 · Jan 16, 2012

ok i love that you are all hel n me i here for that and im using 3/4 stenth of what GH says to use not the lucas but i think it would be close neway isnt it 8/16 for lucas an yes im using the cal/mag because im using RO i thought thats what you are suppose to do? Isnt it 100ppm of calmag in RO your suppose to add?

Hydro-Soil · Jan 16, 2012

Right...

8/16 is Lucas with GH flora series. 600-1000w lamps at 55wpsqft or more and you'll need full strength. Since you're running 1000w lamps at least.... you'll want to run at 8/16.

No... cal/mag is not a requirement when using R/O, only when using nutes that are designed to be used with tap water that has calcium/magnesium already in it.
The Lucas Formula is balanced for use with R/O and generally doesn't need anything 'added' unless you have a magnesium hungry strain... in which case a .5-1.0g of epsom salts (garden grade preferred) will provide that for not even a penny.

Again... the extra nitrogen and calcium are not 'optimal' when added to most nutrient profiles, including lucas, and actually causes issues in later flower. The nitrogen causes stretching and high chlorophyll levels while the calcium adds to the elements that are unable to be used up during a 2 week plain water run before harvest.

Fun, eh?

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Guest 263194 · Jan 16, 2012

I am using GH Bloom nd Micro too. even if your using 100 percent R/O, you don't need to put cal-mag. B/M already contains cal-mag. Bloom contains (Mg) nd Micro have (Cal). I am using shitty coco coir, and I haven't even got any calmag def yet. I don't think it's OK to use cal-mag then plant is hunger from it. cal-mag make nutrients lock-out. even if you going to use I would only use like a 1~2 drop, but I suggest you not to. I am speaking from my experience, i used calmag on my seedling and it got so stunted. I didn't know Lucas is for R/O water tho. let you tap water set for 48hr and mix it with R/O water (50/50).

Hydro-Soil · Jan 16, 2012

Can't use tap water here... slime issues.

Never used tap-water except once in the last 10 years because every place I've lived has crappy water that's dangerous for people and plants.

Lucas Formula works with R/O water without adding anything. I'm pretty sure that prohibition is the only reason that people are still farting around with some misunderstanding of the Lucas formula. It's difficult to get the right info on it from current posts these days... most growers don't know it from cheese toast.

Anyone wanting to get a better understanding of how cannabis grows and what your nutrients do in that role.... would do well to look up "Ask Lucas" on the net and read his original replies in that entire thread. Then read it again.

R/O means clean meds when the grower does it right. Tap water in most places in the country will make for meds I don't really care for.

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Hydro-Soil · Jan 16, 2012

For those who are interested....

The main reason that gh is having an issue with a deficiency this late in flower is due to the lack of a pH swing.

In any hydro medium it's important to keep the pH of the solution between 5.8 to 6.0 so that the plant gets a full drop in pH as the medium dries out.
Gh isn't using a medium here as the aeroflo is an NFT system which needs to be treated the same as a DWC/SWC system. Since there is no medium to 'dry out' and drop the pH... the pH swing has to be done in reverse...

Start your res at 5.2-5.4... whatever works best to keep the pH around (but still at or above) 5.2 before each top-off. Auto-top offs will allow you to start your res pH at 5.2.

As your plants eat the nutes... the pH will rise. The goal is approximately a week before it hits 5.8. Too fast of a swing, not enough nutes... up your starting tds/ec and you'll see a slower swing. Too slow of a swing, too much nutes... drop your starting teds/ec and you'll see a faster swing.

When you have that 'full swing' going with your pH.... your plants can easily absorb all the nutes they need and you'll not see any deficiencies with the Lucas Formula.

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

ghuser113 · Jan 16, 2012

yeah i checked my ph and i set it at 5.5 4 days ago and today 4 days later its still at 5.5 so im not sure what that means?

FreezerBoy · Jan 17, 2012

It means you're drinking and eating at the same rate. Up EC by 0.1 and you should see EC climb and pH drop. Drop EC and you should see EC drop and pH climb.

When my water worked correctly, I did the former. EC climbed, pH dropped and after 2 weeks, 4 gal of straight tap water would drop EC and raise pH back to starting levels. I'd run a tub for months that way, doing 20+ weeks of 12/12 with a single flush.

joe fresh · Jan 17, 2012

FreezerBoy said:
It means you're drinking and eating at the same rate. Up EC by 0.1 and you should see EC climb and pH drop. Drop EC and you should see EC drop and pH climb.

When my water worked correctly, I did the former. EC climbed, pH dropped and after 2 weeks, 4 gal of straight tap water would drop EC and raise pH back to starting levels. I'd run a tub for months that way, doing 20+ weeks of 12/12 with a single flush.

so in other words he is overfeeding, but not enough to make the ph drop and ppm rise, rather just enough to make both stay stable?

FreezerBoy · Jan 17, 2012

joe fresh said:
so in other words he is overfeeding, but not enough to make the ph drop and ppm rise, rather just enough to make both stay stable?

Not yet, at the moment he's "perfect". Water and nutes are being absorbed equally. But, while you want to know where "perfect" is as a starting point, holding "perfect" means no swing, no swing bad.

Now that we have the "perfect" number we can add or subtract 0.1 EC. Too little to starve or burn but, enough to force swing. I prefer the overfeed method as it allowed me to control both EC and pH with tap water alone.

ghuser113 · Jan 17, 2012

I dont have an ec meter

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