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DIY nutrient formulas from raw salts. Anyone doing it???

Earache my eye

New member
Who’s mixing their own? We need a thread with formulas in PPM.
Put em up and let’s talk about it.
Not enough about this topic since Yosemite Sam left the building.
Does anyone have up to date profiles from leaf and tissue testing??
 

Earache my eye

New member
Tom Ericsson’s exchangeable ratios or Albrechts base cation saturation ratios? Anyone use those in coco?
Here’s one with Ericsson’s exchangeable ratios in mind that I’ve used,
120-70-128-152-30
N-P-K-Ca-Mg
 
Been testing different ratios for a couple of years now and have come up with my current recipe for coco pots.



veg(600w) 2 - 1 - 2



120 - 60 - 120 - 150 - 50


S.T.E.M. - 0.1g / gal
CalNit - 3g / gal
Epsom - 2g / gal
MKP - 1g / gal
SOP - 0.1g / gal




bloom wk 1-6 (1000w) 2 - 1 - 4



200 - 100 - 400 - 250 - 75





S.T.E.M. - 0.15g / gal
CalNit - 5g / gal
Epsom - 3g / gal
MKP - 1.7g / gal
SOP - 2.5g / gal




bloom wk 7 (1000w) 1 - 1 - 2


100 - 100 - 200 - 120 - 40



S.T.E.M - 0.1g / gal

CalNit - 2.5g / galEpsom - 1.6g / gal
MKP - 1.7g / gal
SOP - 0.1g / gal




Flush 2 weeks minimum
 

GSWCali

Member
Thanks for this thread. I've been reading a lot about raw salts and plan to use them in the near future once I'm ready for my next run.

James, would you happen to buffer/charge your coco with your veg profile? Also for your weeks 1-6 profile do you keep the N the same around 200 or scale it down a bit once the stretch is finished? For me I think my problem will come in flower because of the CaNO3 being used and I might need less N but still a good amount of Ca. Maybe Ca chelated would be good.

Happy holidays everyone!
 
James, would you happen to buffer/charge your coco with your veg profile? Also for your weeks 1-6 profile do you keep the N the same around 200 or scale it down a bit once the stretch is finished? For me I think my problem will come in flower because of the CaNO3 being used and I might need less N but still a good amount of Ca. Maybe Ca chelated would be good.

I don't charge the coco at all before dropping them in. I transplant rooted clones and hand feed daily with good runoff for 2-3 weeks. EC for veg is about 2.1


Once they hit the flower rooms they get drippers and multi-feeds @ around 2.7EC


In my opinion the 2:1:4 ratio is perfect and keeps the plants healthy and green throughout mid flower. No need to cut nitrogen too early. There is plenty of Calcium to buffer the coco. No need to supplement.



Week 7 is where N/K get cut in half and they begin to lighten up a bit in color. They really start to frost up during this time.



Flush for 2-3 weeks and flavor will be on point.



Keep in mind im flowering under very high light levels w/ 1500ppm CO2. You will need to dilute the bloom recipe if your environment is not optimum.



The veg recipe will need to be boosted if using 1000watt lights
 

GSWCali

Member
I don't charge the coco at all before dropping them in. I transplant rooted clones and hand feed daily with good runoff for 2-3 weeks. EC for veg is about 2.1


Once they hit the flower rooms they get drippers and multi-feeds @ around 2.7EC


In my opinion the 2:1:4 ratio is perfect and keeps the plants healthy and green throughout mid flower. No need to cut nitrogen too early. There is plenty of Calcium to buffer the coco. No need to supplement.



Week 7 is where N/K get cut in half and they begin to lighten up a bit in color. They really start to frost up during this time.



Flush for 2-3 weeks and flavor will be on point.



Keep in mind im flowering under very high light levels w/ 1500ppm CO2. You will need to dilute the bloom recipe if your environment is not optimum.



The veg recipe will need to be boosted if using 1000watt lights

Very interesting James, thank you for sharing.

Forgive me for my bombardment of questions, I'm quite new with using raw salts as nutrition and hope to get fully grasped before I start my next run.

So EC 2.1 for veg that's ~1050 PPM. For your veg profile you have a 2-1-2 ratio, would you scale your individual PPMs to twice the amount you posted(120ppmN 60ppmP 120ppmK etc) when you're in full veg mode to achieve 2.1 EC?

I usually stick to 750W max when I'm in veg so I'm thinking of 500-600w I'll stick to ~2.1 EC and when I hit 750 I'll scale it t 2.4ish.

I also bloom at 1000w and run co2 as well. I think my environment is optimally decent so I'm looking forward to giving your ratios a try :dance013:

One last question. I have a EC reader but essentially I wouldn't really need one with raw salts right? I mean if we know 1 gram of CaNO3 gives ~41 PPM N and ~50 PPM Ca, the math for creating a batch of nutrients to feed wouldn't lie? I'm asking because if I put 1 gram of CaNO3 in a gallon of water for example, I usually get around~264 PPM, ~0.5 EC. I know that I got the 41N and 50Ca but there is also other ions in that mix which makes me think I wouldn't need a reader. Just a random thought I had and wondering what you think of that.

Thanks again James, I really appreciate your input! Hope holidays are great and start the new year strong!
 
So EC 2.1 for veg that's ~1050 PPM. For your veg profile you have a 2-1-2 ratio, would you scale your individual PPMs to twice the amount you posted(120ppmN 60ppmP 120ppmK etc) when you're in full veg mode to achieve 2.1 EC?

I usually stick to 750W max when I'm in veg so I'm thinking of 500-600w I'll stick to ~2.1 EC and when I hit 750 I'll scale it t 2.4ish.


I don't mind the questions man. Glad to help anyone get off the bottled nutrient train.

The 120 - 60 - 120 profile is my 600w recipe @ 1.3EC
(I realize I put 2.1EC in the original post. My mistake.)

1000w would be 200 - 100 - 200 @ 2.1EC

750w would be 150 - 75 - 150 @ 1.6EC

0.12g S.T.E.M
3.65g CalNit
2.40g Epsom
1.25g MKP
0.10g SOP

If your plants look hungry, just bump the recipe up by 10% until you are satisfied.

It helps to use a meter so you can keep track of all your inputs and EC values. Not totally necessary but I like seeing the numbers every time i mix.



Eventually you'll have everything memorized anyway.
 

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Hey James Howlett you mind giving some more info on your grow and some yield results/strains used per 1000w from those profiles?

What bulbs are you running in veg and flower (or led system)?
Sealed flower room? Tent?
How much space is each 1000w covering in flower and how many plants under each?
What size pot are plants flowered in? How many times are you feeding per day in flower?
In flower what is your temperature during lights on when supplementing at 1500ppm CO2?
 

GSWCali

Member
I don't mind the questions man. Glad to help anyone get off the bottled nutrient train.

The 120 - 60 - 120 profile is my 600w recipe @ 1.3EC
(I realize I put 2.1EC in the original post. My mistake.)

1000w would be 200 - 100 - 200 @ 2.1EC

750w would be 150 - 75 - 150 @ 1.6EC

0.12g S.T.E.M
3.65g CalNit
2.40g Epsom
1.25g MKP
0.10g SOP

If your plants look hungry, just bump the recipe up by 10% until you are satisfied.

It helps to use a meter so you can keep track of all your inputs and EC values. Not totally necessary but I like seeing the numbers every time i mix.



Eventually you'll have everything memorized anyway.

Thanks for clearing that up James. I really appreciate the information and I think I have a good grasp on this and the only thing left to do is experiment with this nutrition. I find this interesting being able to accurately adjust a certain element if needed, something I wouldn't be able to do with a bottled brand.
 

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
^Thats more like it K closer to N in flower. Ive read a good amount of your posts Bill, i can vouch you know your nutrients. Whats the PH stability like with that low ~1% NH4? Ive seen closer to 10% recommended for good stability.
 
Last edited:

BillFarthing

Active member
Veteran
^Thats more like it K closer to N in flower. Ive read a good amount of your posts Bill, i can vouch you know your nutrients. Whats the PH stability like with that low ~1% NH4? Ive seen closer to 10% reccomened for good stability.


Well, thank you. I see you've read page 104 of Hydroponics: A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower! It's actually pretty stable even at that ratio.



If I am doing a large volume of solution that needs to be rock solid on the pH, I like to do a citrate/carbonate pH buffer.
 

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Haha yeah and anything else I could find, I really enjoy research/reading/learning (introverted heavily). Thanks for the quick reply, good to know. Something else im curious about though is something I read about too high ratio nitrate to NH4 causing large weak cell walls from Harley Smith.

"Nitrate-N is a “luxury” element. In other words, if you give your plants extra nitrate, the plant will take it up, whether the plant needs it or not! Over 30% of the energy of photosynthesis is burned just to take up nitrates. So if you add too much nitrate nitrogen, the plant burns up its energy reserves for more top growth, but root growth is inhibited. The plants may look lush and dark green, but the plant will be weakened. Plants supplied with excess nitrates will produce large cells with thin cell walls, making them more susceptible to stress and disease, and excessive nitrates can delay or even prevent flowering! Stored nitrates in plant tissues can also give rise to off-flavors, and they are generally considered unhealthy. In fact, in Europe if nitrate levels are too high in the plant tissue, the produce will lose its organic certification, even if all-natural fertilizers are used.

A little ammonium-nitrogen is a quick fix. Plants will take up the ammonium ions immediately, without accumulating excess nitrates in the process. Ammonium - nitrogen can also be used as a light foliar feed to quickly green up the plant. Professional growers manipulate the ammonium:nitrate ratios of the nutrient solution to maximize quality and yield. For example, a “hard water” nutrient formula will have a higher ammonium to nitrate ratio to help stabilize pH. The ammonium ion is positively charged. So as the plant takes up ammonium ions, it exchanges positively-charged H+ ions from the roots. This tends to neutralize excess bicarbonate ions in well water and help drive the pH down. On the other hand, the nitrate ion is negatively charged. So as the plant takes up nitrates, it exudes negatively-charged bicarbonate or OH- ions from the roots, tending to drive the pH up. Therefore, increasing the ammonium to nitrate ratio can help stabilize pH problems in well water.

Unlike nitrate nitrogen, ammonium nitrogen is assimilated directly by the roots for immediate use by the plant, without burning up excess carbohydrates in the process. Under high light and CO2 conditions, extra ammonium ions can be very beneficial. If carbon dioxide is supplemented to levels above 750 ppm, plants will preferentially take up carbon molecules over nitrate-N, limiting protein production. If more of the nitrogen is provided in the ammonium form, however, the plant can utilize it directly for increased protein production under high CO2 and light conditions. Just don’t overdo it! Ammonium nitrogen can become toxic to plants at even modest levels, producing soft, “rank” growth, especially in cool, low-light conditions."
 

GSWCali

Member
Haha yeah and anything else I could find, I really enjoy research/reading/learning (introverted heavily). Thanks for the quick reply, good to know. Something else im curious about though is something I read about too high ratio nitrate to NH4 causing large weak cell walls from Harley Smith.

"Nitrate-N is a “luxury” element. In other words, if you give your plants extra nitrate, the plant will take it up, whether the plant needs it or not! Over 30% of the energy of photosynthesis is burned just to take up nitrates. So if you add too much nitrate nitrogen, the plant burns up its energy reserves for more top growth, but root growth is inhibited. The plants may look lush and dark green, but the plant will be weakened. Plants supplied with excess nitrates will produce large cells with thin cell walls, making them more susceptible to stress and disease, and excessive nitrates can delay or even prevent flowering! Stored nitrates in plant tissues can also give rise to off-flavors, and they are generally considered unhealthy. In fact, in Europe if nitrate levels are too high in the plant tissue, the produce will lose its organic certification, even if all-natural fertilizers are used.

A little ammonium-nitrogen is a quick fix. Plants will take up the ammonium ions immediately, without accumulating excess nitrates in the process. Ammonium - nitrogen can also be used as a light foliar feed to quickly green up the plant. Professional growers manipulate the ammonium:nitrate ratios of the nutrient solution to maximize quality and yield. For example, a “hard water” nutrient formula will have a higher ammonium to nitrate ratio to help stabilize pH. The ammonium ion is positively charged. So as the plant takes up ammonium ions, it exchanges positively-charged H+ ions from the roots. This tends to neutralize excess bicarbonate ions in well water and help drive the pH down. On the other hand, the nitrate ion is negatively charged. So as the plant takes up nitrates, it exudes negatively-charged bicarbonate or OH- ions from the roots, tending to drive the pH up. Therefore, increasing the ammonium to nitrate ratio can help stabilize pH problems in well water.

Unlike nitrate nitrogen, ammonium nitrogen is assimilated directly by the roots for immediate use by the plant, without burning up excess carbohydrates in the process. Under high light and CO2 conditions, extra ammonium ions can be very beneficial. If carbon dioxide is supplemented to levels above 750 ppm, plants will preferentially take up carbon molecules over nitrate-N, limiting protein production. If more of the nitrogen is provided in the ammonium form, however, the plant can utilize it directly for increased protein production under high CO2 and light conditions. Just don’t overdo it! Ammonium nitrogen can become toxic to plants at even modest levels, producing soft, “rank” growth, especially in cool, low-light conditions."

Interesting! I'm using Calcium nitrate as my source which gives me about 2.9ppm NH4 for 1 gram/gallon. Should I aim for 1:10 NH4:NO3?
Using 1gram/gallon doesn't quite get it to 10%. I like the idea behind the foilar feed I might try it. Maybe once every 3 days, or once week?
Thanks the the info!
 

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Interesting! I'm using Calcium nitrate as my source which gives me about 2.9ppm NH4 for 1 gram/gallon. Should I aim for 1:10 NH4:NO3?Using 1gram/gallon doesn't quite get it to 10%.

Using other fertilizers containing ammonium like mono ammonium phosphate would need to be used to attain the 10% NH4 of total ppm N final solution.

I like the idea behind the foilar feed I might try it. Maybe once every 3 days, or once week?

Every plant/environment is different, once a week should probably be plenty. With dialed nutrition it can be easy to over do it with readily available NH4 by foliar spraying too often.

Thanks the the info!

No problem, just my way of giving back.
 

BillFarthing

Active member
Veteran



I think Advanced Nutrients are ridiculously priced, but their ratios of base nutes to tissue samples are right on. When I started using Hydrobuddy, this was always the ratio that I went for.
 
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