Pose2B clone grow by Onavelzy

All of the plants except the Dubtechs grew noticeably overnight. They all gained an inch at least, one of the GG4's was over 2 inches. At this point, none of them are going to win any awards for their looks but growing is good.

I'd like to get some similarity in size before flipping. I also want to take some clones that root. I'll work on those things this week.

I think more and more that there is some kind of root disease going on for the dubtechs, maybe rootrot. I'll probably eliminate the little one so I can take a closer look at the root zone.

If there is Pythium or a similar fungal root infection, not sure it'd be worth it to try to save the larger plant. It might feel big of me to rescue a dying plant but I'll feel much more of an ass hat if I let anything spread to the other plants. I'll treat everyone with a presumptive dose of Actinovate later today. I just added beneficials last week when I transplanted.

Ok, gonna watch Liverpool play, then run a couple of errands. Then I'll look at those roots.

Take care,

Ona

Hey Ona. Your GG4s are looking good man. If i were you I would chop that main shoot. My glue really loves to be topped. Topped her for the fourth snd final time before flower. Much love from the 207.

MurdaMishou said:

Hey Ona. Your GG4s are looking good man. If i were you I would chop that main shoot. My glue really loves to be topped. Topped her for the fourth snd final time before flower. Much love from the 207.

Click to expand...

Hi Murda,

That is exactly my plan. I want to take some cuttings and I need to induce some branching badly in several of these plants. I'll take the tops and maybe some of the upper side branches. We'll see.

Then, the god willing and the complications don't rise, the plants will branch, the roots will explode, the cuttings will root and I can then flip and enter...., the next dimension.

Thanks for coming by Murda,

Ona

Post Mortem

Post Mortem

RIP zombie Dubtech 7.

Not sure who that plant pissed off, but she never had a chance. I got the plant direct from a clone vendor on 2-11. She was in a 4 inch pot and looked healthy.

DT7, shortly after arrival, 2nd plant from the left


2 1/2 weeks later, she had little to no new growth. When I pulled her from the 4" pot to see what was going on, all the surrounding medium fell away, leaving this bare, rootless rock wool cube:

Zombie-ness revealed when transplanting:


A firm believer that a plant will make it because I am here to help it (and that I will win the next lottery too), I went ahead and repotted it in some coco. A week and a half later, after shedding all but the topmost leaves, I pulled it from the coco and saw...

Not one damn root


I dug in and pulled away the grodan cube to see what had happened.

After a full month of veg, here's the sum total of the root "mass".

I have more hair in my nose than this poor thing has roots


I did a forensic examination with my brand new 40x hand held microscope. WTF is it with these things from Amazon? My simple magnifying glass gave better magnification. And it didn't have any of that fish eye distortion either. Utter piece of crap. Forget a broad mite, I'm not sure I would have seen a June bug with that thing.

The grodan cube wasn't mushy. There was no anaerobic odor. The stem at the roots was still firm. No clue what happened.

I've decided the other dubtech has had enough revigoration (not sure if that's really a word) to allow it to keep growing.

I figured I'd get defensive and proactive. I went around looking for some Actinovate to go after possible pathogenic fungi in the root zones. None at the local hydro place ("Yeah, we're out. Should come in in a couple of days."), walmart, HD, Lowe's, Armstrong Garden Center. nada. Finally went to another hydro place about 10 miles north. Guy says, "Yeah, it got pulled from stores. Regulators said some kind of problem with the labeling. Don't know when or if it will be available" Well thank you hydro store number one for not letting me know that so that I could take that nice motor tour of the north county today.

Both hydro stores did their damndiest to help me out though. The first one let me know I didn't really want to be using Actinovate. What I needed was an enzymatic product called Hygrozyme. That stuff would enzymatically (aka magicically) get rid of all that presumed dead root stuff and allow beneficials to step in and out compete any root rot fungi. $23. I get home and see all the reviews that said it didn't do shit.

The second guy said, "We do have this other enzymatic bacteria, works just like the Actinovate. It's called Forge" $20 something. I get home and look it up. It is an iron chelator. It may be that I will need that if I get iron deficiency but, why mislead?

Amazon page sez, "Order now and it will be there tomorrow, free shipping". OK then! 1 step order, click! I check the order page: "product will be delivered on Wednesday". YOU MARKETERS ALL SUCK!!

And how was you alls day?

Take care,

Ona

I made my first harvest of cuttings today, on the second day Holi, aka the Festival of Colors:




In every picture of these festivals I've ever seen, everyone in the pic looks like they're a bunch of adult kids having the best day of their lives.

Anyway, Holi is also a harvest festival of sorts, so that's my weak tie in. I had no powdered colors to use so i cut my finger and bled on everything a bit to show solidarity.

Here's the group shot from a few days ago:


Here's their "after haircut" shot from this afternoon:


Here's cuts in cups, hydrating up a bit before going into cubes and the dome:


As with just about every aspect of culture, there's close to 97 bazillion ways of cloning described here, other sites, Youtube, etc. I opted to try to go with the way DJM described in his Coco Trees thread.


I modified a bit where I had to. I did have some biggish clones to take but some were just middlin side branches. I'm not going to keep them in water all night long--probably give them around 6 hours. Main reason is temp control of the room. I can keep the dome fairly stable at around 80, I think, but not the whole closet area.

We'll see if any survive.

I thought the best tool to use for making cuts would be a box cutter. If I did a swiping kind of motion, it did cut well. Unfortunately, that incising motion led to a fair bit of follow through and sometimes collateral damage to other stems. In hind sight, I think a sharp pair of scissors would have provided much more control. If nothing else, I wouldn't have whacked my knuckle and been bleeding all over some of the clones. The scissors were good in cutting the leaf tips back. The box cutter was worthless for that. Another addition to the growing pile of stuff that seemed like a good idea at the time.

I'll probably do some LST for the smaller GG4 and the rest of the Kaya branches.

We'll know more in about 10 days.

Have a colorful day,

Ona

Edit: New kids in the dome


fwiw, lux at the level of the canopy in the tray is 800-1000. Initial temp in the tray is 75. I have a space heater near the closet. Will check temp min/max in AM.

Have a good night,

Ona

What's good from Maine Ona? I've found that when taking clones it helps to take them a day or two after feeding. I chop them, cut the stem at a nice 45 angle, scrape the stem, then split it doen the middle. Then stick them in a solo cup with a mixture of water with a few globs of rooting hormone gel. Usually have roots within 2-3 days. Best of luck Ona.

The plants are looking so much better now Ona...... Big Difference.... Keep those roots growing and they will explode on ya...... hope you're ready for a roller coaster ride......

MurdaMishou said:

What's good from Maine Ona? I've found that when taking clones it helps to take them a day or two after feeding. I chop them, cut the stem at a nice 45 angle, scrape the stem, then split it doen the middle. Then stick them in a solo cup with a mixture of water with a few globs of rooting hormone gel. Usually have roots within 2-3 days. Best of luck Ona.

Click to expand...

I debated using the rooting in water approach. In the end I was swayed by the rooting pics in the DJM thread. No way that's reproducible on my end, but you have to pick a way so I picked that one. We'll see how it goes. if anything, I'm a "challenger" type person, meaning I tend not to accept dogma and usually seek another path. But that said, I'm also able to recognize expertise and am fully willing to copy what has worked well for someone. If this clone round doesn't work out, I'll try another approach, like the water rooting technique.

Stay warm up there!!

Aspenou812 said:

The plants are looking so much better now Ona...... Big Difference.... Keep those roots growing and they will explode on ya...... hope you're ready for a roller coaster ride......

Click to expand...

Hi Aspen, Thanks for checking in.

It's a little less helter skelter here in Velzy Gardens the last few days. Stability is good. As you and the others have kindly pointed out, it's a learning process.

You're getting soo close to your harvest! I hope you feel the respect for your ability that so many folks are expressing. Independent of the final weight, the quality of your grow has been superb. Numbers are fun, they're a "keeping score" thing. But what matters is how you did, and you did incredible. Sounds a bit overblown but reading how you did things is inspiring to new growers like me. And I know I'm not the only one who has been influenced by your mojo. GZ!

""hope you're ready for a roller coaster ride......""

More than the last four weeks? Lol.

Ona

Just a brief evening note. Clones weathered the first night just fine. The min/max temp showed it stayed near 77 all night.

I LST'd the Kaya and the smaller GG4 today. Can't show pics because the bedroom is back in the hands of it's original inhabitant. He goes back to school at the end of the week but until then, I'll try to stay out of his hair.

I got my drainage platforms from that car detailing place. I'll get a few larger pans that they can fit onto for now. I'll soon get a 4x4 or 3x3 tray to put things in.

I'll probably feed tomorrow. I could have today but the space was in use.

I read Starcrash's note on the GG4 thread that he thinks his GG4 failed due to previously invisible insects that he found using a jeweller's loupe. Sounds pretty mite-ish. I haven't seen anything on my plants but my optic choices to date have been total fails. I wonder if something like that didn't takeout the dubstep 7. the remaining one is looking much better but I don't trust it.

I'm weighing out what agent to use when I feed tomorrow but I'm definitely going to be treating for possible mites, etc. At a minimum, it will be Spinosad but debating imicloprid. I got advice to use bifenthrin but I got nervous reading about it showing up in post harvest testing, leading to a bunch of recalls of product at dispensaries in Colorado, etc.

Alright, with no pictures to buffer the walls of words, I better quit.

Have a great Ides of March,





Ona

Ona sounds like broad mites he's talking about, they are hard to see. The less obvious symptoms show their face first like slow growth locked out and small leaves. The other symptoms show up later by that time it's usually too late.
I had Broad mites on the glue that I got in San Diego .. It had slow growth and small leaves and flavorless buds. Spinosad is for thrips , imid for gnats and aphids, neem for regular mites. Bm's are a long battle to win and there is usually collateral damage.
I opted to start fresh, and the new plants are growing as they should.

onavelzy said:

I debated using the rooting in water approach. In the end I was swayed by the rooting pics in the DJM thread. No way that's reproducible on my end, but you have to pick a way so I picked that one. We'll see how it goes. if anything, I'm a "challenger" type person, meaning I tend not to accept dogma and usually seek another path. But that said, I'm also able to recognize expertise and am fully willing to copy what has worked well for someone. If this clone round doesn't work out, I'll try another approach, like the water rooting technique.

Stay warm up there!!



Hi Aspen, Thanks for checking in.

It's a little less helter skelter here in Velzy Gardens the last few days. Stability is good. As you and the others have kindly pointed out, it's a learning process.

You're getting soo close to your harvest! I hope you feel the respect for your ability that so many folks are expressing. Independent of the final weight, the quality of your grow has been superb. Numbers are fun, they're a "keeping score" thing. But what matters is how you did, and you did incredible. Sounds a bit overblown but reading how you did things is inspiring to new growers like me. And I know I'm not the only one who has been influenced by your mojo. GZ!

""hope you're ready for a roller coaster ride......""

More than the last four weeks? Lol.

Ona

Click to expand...

Thank you Ona.... I'm just trying to document enough that someone like you and I can follow and be successful.......

Hi Cyat,
I only feel committed to one if my clones, the kaya cut I got when I met you all. The others may be true to name but with a vendor, only way to know is grow them out and ask those who know to give their opinion. So if I find anything like BM, I would have no problem getting rid of everything except the Kaya.
Are spinosad and imidicloprid ineffective vs BM? If so, I could order bifenthrin. If I'm still early in a veg cycle, that should be ok. If I use a systemic, I'd want to do a lab test to see what persists. Krunchbubble did and his assay showed no detectable pesticides

Thanks for the info on BM. Hope I don't have it and dont get it.

Ona

Good luck

onavelzy said:

Hi Cyat,
I only feel committed to one if my clones, the kaya cut I got when I met you all. The others may be true to name but with a vendor, only way to know is grow them out and ask those who know to give their opinion. So if I find anything like BM, I would have no problem getting rid of everything except the Kaya.
Are spinosad and imidicloprid ineffective vs BM? If so, I could order bifenthrin. If I'm still early in a veg cycle, that should be ok. If I use a systemic, I'd want to do a lab test to see what persists. Krunchbubble did and his assay showed no detectable pesticides

Thanks for the info on BM. Hope I don't have it and dont get it.

Ona

Click to expand...

LOL, guys stop scaring the newbie.

Ona, if they are looking better then you don't have broad mites. The second things start to go with broad mites, the plants are more or less unrecoverable. They would also spread rather quickly, so your other plants would start to collectively die off despite your best efforts to save them.

You have plants that are shocked from over watering and minor nutrient lockout issues from being over watered. Lift the pots, get used to the weight, water accordingly. This is actually part of the reason I suggested soil out of the gate, coco requires a lot more rocket science (nutrient mixing / ph adjustment / ability to diagnose nutrient deficiencies visually) and that can sometimes trip up a new grower.

Neem, bifenthrin (all pyrethroids for that matter), spinosad, azamax, permethrin, etc. will all kill what the pest control industry considers a "generic" pest. Ants, spiders, thrips, gnats, mosquitoes, beetles, caterpillars and so on.

Mites require a different approach because they are naturally more resilient than typical household pests. To make things more complicated, different types of mites (russet mites, two spotted mites, broad mites, spider mites) require different pesticides for control. Neem, pyrethroids, spinosad, etc will not work on mites - I don't care what the sales guy at the hydro store says, he's not licensed in pest control.

Pesticides will not show up in your final product, provided you don't spray the plants after hairs are showing in flower (roughly 10-14 days in). If you have questions about how long pesticides last in the real world, google: the active ingredient & environmental fate. There will be studies that show how long the active lasts in soil, water, on leaf surfaces, etc.

I generally tell people to avoid systemics because they are the one exception to the "wont show up" rule as they last substantially longer in plants (up to 2.5 months). Anything that turns the plant into a pesticide container via uptake is to be treated with a healthy dose of respect. Imidacloprid is generally a no-no when it comes to mites, it tends to turn them into sexual dynamos and they overwhelm the room. Avid will kill spider and broad mites, but you need to use it according to the label. I would strongly advise against the use of systemic pesticides. Instead, throw away infected plants - you'll be happier (and generally more worry free) if you do.

Hey Ona! Sorry to hear about your possible pest problem. Got spider mites once upon time from taking in a clone from a buddy. Once I confirmed they were indeed spider mites, I immediately chopped the whole crop. FUCKING PESTS MAN! Just stay on top of your environment and watch whatever you take in. Much love from Maine.

Terpene said:

LOL, guys stop scaring the newbie.

Ona, if they are looking better then you don't have broad mites. The second things start to go with broad mites, the plants are more or less unrecoverable. They would also spread rather quickly, so your other plants would start to collectively die off despite your best efforts to save them.

You have plants that are shocked from over watering and minor nutrient lockout issues from being over watered. Lift the pots, get used to the weight, water accordingly. This is actually part of the reason I suggested soil out of the gate, coco requires a lot more rocket science (nutrient mixing / ph adjustment / ability to diagnose nutrient deficiencies visually) and that can sometimes trip up a new grower.

Neem, bifenthrin (all pyrethroids for that matter), spinosad, azamax, permethrin, etc. will all kill what the pest control industry considers a "generic" pest. Ants, spiders, thrips, gnats, mosquitoes, beetles, caterpillars and so on.

Mites require a different approach because they are naturally more resilient than typical household pests. To make things more complicated, different types of mites (russet mites, two spotted mites, broad mites, spider mites) require different pesticides for control. Neem, pyrethroids, spinosad, etc will not work on mites - I don't care what the sales guy at the hydro store says, he's not licensed in pest control.

Pesticides will not show up in your final product, provided you don't spray the plants after hairs are showing in flower (roughly 10-14 days in). If you have questions about how long pesticides last in the real world, google: the active ingredient & environmental fate. There will be studies that show how long the active lasts in soil, water, on leaf surfaces, etc.

I generally tell people to avoid systemics because they are the one exception to the "wont show up" rule as they last substantially longer in plants (up to 2.5 months). Anything that turns the plant into a pesticide container via uptake is to be treated with a healthy dose of respect. Imidacloprid is generally a no-no when it comes to mites, it tends to turn them into sexual dynamos and they overwhelm the room. Avid will kill spider and broad mites, but you need to use it according to the label. I would strongly advise against the use of systemic pesticides. Instead, throw away infected plants - you'll be happier (and generally more worry free) if you do.

Click to expand...

Hey Terp, I'm really glad you were able to come by and advise. OK, I will hold off on empiric systemic treatment.

The search goes on for quality optics.

Ona

MurdaMishou said:

Hey Ona! Sorry to hear about your possible pest problem. Got spider mites once upon time from taking in a clone from a buddy. Once I confirmed they were indeed spider mites, I immediately chopped the whole crop. FUCKING PESTS MAN! Just stay on top of your environment and watch whatever you take in. Much love from Maine.

Click to expand...

I thought I had. they all looked fine for the two weeks I had them in the closet, although the one dubstep didn't grow much. The leaf changes etc happened after I up potted, overwatered, etc, so it could be entirely a function of plant stress due to my learning curve. After seeing the lack of rooting on the Dubtechs, I doubt it has all been a function of me however.

At this point, they all be saying,

Hahaha. Well if you were in the great state of Maine, I always have CLEAN Clones kicking around. When we bounce back it is better and stronger than ever. Much love bro

MurdaMishou said:

Hahaha. Well if you were in the great state of Maine, I always have CLEAN Clones kicking around. When we bounce back it is better and stronger than ever. Much love bro

Click to expand...

I believe you and I are as far away from each other as it it is possible to be in the continental states. I looked it up. It's about 100 miles farther from Key Largo to Seattle than it is from the middle of Maine to SD

If you had broad mites I'd tell you to toss the Kaya clone. I'd get you another no sweat...I appreciate your commitment though.
Your in good hands with Terp as far as pesticides.