Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

Hookahhead · Oct 30, 2019

I’ve been kicking around the idea of using one of those 5 bulb adapters, a stepper motor from a recycled printer and an arduino to make a circular light mover. The arduino would move the motor/bulb adapter 180 degrees, then rotate the opposite direction back to “start”. For a few extra $ you can add a timer module and a relay and have it function as your timer.

Boocoodinkydow · Oct 30, 2019

Thanx for all the experimentation, PCBuds. Very informative.

Boocoodinkydow · Oct 30, 2019

Hookahhead said:
I’ve been kicking around the idea of using one of those 5 bulb adapters, a stepper motor from a recycled printer and an arduino to make a circular light mover. The arduino would move the motor/bulb adapter 180 degrees, then rotate the opposite direction back to “start”. For a few extra $ you can add a timer module and a relay and have it function as your timer.

Sounds like fun. Keep us posted on your progress.

PCBuds · Oct 30, 2019

Hookahhead said:
I’ve been kicking around the idea of using one of those 5 bulb adapters, a stepper motor from a recycled printer and an arduino to make a circular light mover. The arduino would move the motor/bulb adapter 180 degrees, then rotate the opposite direction back to “start”. For a few extra $ you can add a timer module and a relay and have it function as your timer.

That sounds kool !!

I had to Google that...

Keep Murphy's Law in mind though.

Eventually, your robot will turn on you and kill your plant. Lol

PCBuds · Oct 30, 2019

I was curious about the capacitor on this bulb and wondered if it would shock me.
So I turned it on and touched it.

No shock.
Normally the metal case of a capacitor is ground or neutral.

PCBuds · Oct 30, 2019

After more than an hour in the can, there is no smoke.
My cat seems to like the experiment.

I used a bulb with the globe on so I replaced it with one with the globe removed and put that in the can.

My house smells like hay but I'm not gonna use my good buds for a better aroma. Lol

Hookahhead · Oct 30, 2019

Yeah the nice thing about a circular light mover instead of a horizontal is that if your motor malfunctions for whatever reason, you’re still getting “even” light coverage. You can get cheap arduino knock offs on eBay. I’ve had nothing but great results with them. With the timer and relay you’re looking at less than 20$. You can add a humidity/temp sensor and data logger later on. Unfortunately I don’t have my electronics, or easy access to eBay/amazon in the country I’m living. When I finally make it home to visit I plan to grab a few things to play with.

Because I know PCBuds is crazy and likes to order things in going to leave these here haha.

PCBuds · Oct 30, 2019

Those are SIL's.

They belong in this thread !! Lol.

indagroove · Oct 30, 2019

PCBuds said:
I've got a similar shop light but it's a 500 Watt halogen.

I was using it to work on my sister's car and melted her bumper.

The light was about 4" from the bumper.

We want efficiency, not radiant energy.

We want our plants to smoke when we roll them, not when we're growing them. Lol

Yeah, a halogen lamp is a completely different animal than any HID lamp. That's like comparing apples to oranges.

A 150w halogen lamp emits 2400 lumens and as you inferred the rest is dissipated as heat loss.

A 150w HPS lamp emits 15,800 lumens, as it's a much more efficient lamp, thereby also emitting less heat.

Your comment reeks of ignorance.

PCBuds · Oct 30, 2019

After an hour the globeless bulb came out of the can with no problems.
No fire and no smoke so I guess I was overly concerned about the fire hazard.

I noticed this though.

I decided to take it a step further and put it in a damp location.

It worked quite well, but after about 15 minutes I wanted to hurry up the experiment because I was just making hot water.

PCBuds · Oct 30, 2019

I cheated anyway by using distilled water and it's an insulator.

So I refilled the jar with tap water and tried again.

That lasted about a minute.
It was bubbling and making popping noises then it went to half brightness.

Then with one last sizzle, it finally died.

It still looks OK though.

Maybe I'll put some voltage to the individual LED segments and see if they still work.

PCBuds · Oct 30, 2019

indagroove said:
Yeah, a halogen lamp is a completely different animal than any HID lamp. That's like comparing apples to oranges.

A 150w halogen lamp emits 2400 lumens and as you inferred the rest is dissipated as heat loss.

A 150w HPS lamp emits 15,800 lumens, as it's a much more efficient lamp, thereby also emitting less heat.

That's true but comparing an HPS or metal halide lamp to the latest LED strips is another apple to oranges comparison.

The HPS is 105 lumens per Watt and the new LED lighting is 200 lumens per watt.

The HPS lamp is a single light source that would be mounted above and all the heat is concentrated on that source.

LED strips can be mounted all over the grow cab which illuminates the entire plant. Top, bottom, and sides, which not only gets light to all the plant but spreads the heat all around the cab to dissipate it without any hot spots.

I will admit that my purchase of a handfull of cobs was stupid at only 100-110 lumens per Watt but I was drunk and had access to Amazon. Lol

But they're just for experimentation.
They do look pretty durable and run off DC so no lines in my pictures. Lol

indagroove · Oct 31, 2019

PCBuds said:
That's true but comparing an HPS or metal halide lamp to the latest LED strips is another apple to oranges comparison.

The HPS is 105 lumens per Watt and the new LED lighting is 200 lumens per watt.

The HPS lamp is a single light source that would be mounted above and all the heat is concentrated on that source.

LED strips can be mounted all over the grow cab which illuminates the entire plant. Top, bottom, and sides, which not only gets light to all the plant but spreads the heat all around the cab to dissipate it without any hot spots.

I will admit that my purchase of a handfull of cobs was stupid at only 100-110 lumens per Watt but I was drunk and had access to Amazon. Lol

But they're just for experimentation.
They do look pretty durable and run off DC so no lines in my pictures. Lol

You called a HPS lamp a Halogen. That's not comparing apples to oranges actually; it's more akin to calling an apple an orange.

Please link me to an "off the shelf" LED bulb which emits 200 lumens/watt. Everything I see is about half that.

Maybe I assumed incorrectly, but I guess I thought this thread was about how to grow the best and most amount of weed with a cheap light that you can buy at the store for minimal cost. The answer to that is what I posted earlier.

Sure you can string LED bulbs all over, byt there is more to the cost than just the bulbs. You need multiple fixtures, wire, and ways to mount them. You won't get the canopy penetration with cheap led bulbs that you would with a cheap 150w HPS security lamp. The most important aspect is that you will get a very narrow light spectrum from over the counter LED's compared to what I posted earlier.

Sorry, and I'm not trying to poo poo your whole thread, but I think you're also kind of chasing the dragon. In terms of of stuff you can buy at the hardware store down the street for cheap, a HPS security light will produce the largest amount of the best quality weed, followed by a MH security light, next would be cfl, T5, or some other flouros, and last would be screw in LED bulbs. Even though technically LED are more efficient, plants like flouros better due to their broad spectrum.

PCBuds · Oct 31, 2019

This is a picture of the light post in front of my house.

The city finally switched out the HPS bulbs with LED's a year ago.
We're saving tons of money on hydro bills now.

And that big metal cylinder is a HUGE capacitor that was to help the old HPS bulbs fire up.

They helped supply the surge current so the demand doesn't blow up our power supply station.

That "transformer" is full of PCB's which is toxic and not good for anybody.
It could be replaced with one the size of a car battery to provide the surge current for the new LED's.

indagroove · Oct 31, 2019

PCBuds said:
This is a picture of the light post in front of my house.

[URL=https://i.postimg.cc/X7jP6m58/20191030-200214.jpg]View Image[/url]

The city finally switched out the HPS bulbs with LED's a year ago.
We're saving tons of money on hydro bills now.

And that big metal cylinder is a HUGE capacitor that was to help the old HPS bulbs fire up.

They helped supply the surge current so the demand doesn't blow up our power supply station.

That "transformer" is full of PCB's which is toxic and not good for anybody.
It could be replaced with one the size of a car battery to provide the surge current for the new LED's.

Are you insinuating that LEDs do not pose a health risk?

From here: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/led-lightbulb-concerns/

PCBuds · Oct 31, 2019

indagroove said:
Maybe I assumed incorrectly, but I guess I thought this thread was about how to grow the best and most amount of weed with a cheap light that you can buy at the store for minimal cost. The answer to that is what I posted earlier.

Actually, this thread is about micro grows.
Things like speaker boxes and PC cases as "grow rooms" but I and a few others took it off on a tangent.

Your HPS or my 4' flouro simply wouldn't work.

I'm going to stick with SIL's until the technology catches up.

SuperBadGrower really should start a new thread.

Hookahhead · Oct 31, 2019

indagroove said:
A 150w HPS lamp emits 15,800 lumens, as it's a much more efficient lamp, thereby also emitting less heat.

I encourage you to read this thread, you will see that screw in LEDs are at least comparable to your 150w HPS in terms of quality and production. PCBuds is just playing around with different things, like many of us did when we first discovered SILs. The 200 lm/w he was referring to is in reference to the LED strips that require a little more DIY but are more efficient because of the circuitry. Your responses clearly show you didn’t read any of the thread, not even a few pages back from this one...

I use Osram 9.5w bulbs. They have an advertised efficiency of 111 lm/w, and we’ve discussed earlier in this thread that it is definitely higher with the globes removed. If we compare the same 150w x 111lm = 16,650 lm. This would be spread between 15 or 16 of my bulbs, giving me a much more even light spread than a single source HID. Also LED point strait down, so 1/2 of my light doesn’t need to hit a reflector just to reach the canopy. I live in the tropics, it’s never below 70f. Running a HPS would fry my little cabinet.

114w mixed spectrum (something else you can’t do with only a single HID). There are a lot more impressive results than this from others here.

I recently bought 14w bulbs because they were on sale for a 2 pack. They have an advertised efficiency of 107lm/w. So again 150w = 16,050 lm. Using recycled pallet wood, I was able to build a 140w light for around $45 to buy 10 sockets, bulbs, and a heavy duty extension cord.

f-e · Oct 31, 2019

PCBuds said:
I'm sure they're all still 10 Watt heaters wasting a tiny bit of energy as photons but the newer design can dissipate the heat better and doesn't get as hot.

lol That's really not that far off the mark.

Sidelighting isn't even questionable, but the topic of uplighting can cause a stir. It was interesting to see the paper SBG posted.
Here are the lights I made to do my first proper study. In a grow known to have consistent results and two separate beds.

The research paper doesn't even scratch at the yield improvement. Which was beyond any reasonable expectation.

Hookahhead · Oct 31, 2019

I could see up lighting being amazing in a Scrog type grow... light above and below the screen. I saw a commercial grow using 1000w DE above and some older LED UFO’s underneath. Their numbers showed that it was worth running the additional lighting. I’m sure we’ve all seen a couple of those lower buds that get extra frosty without supplemented light.

indagroove · Oct 31, 2019

Hookahhead said:
I encourage you to read this thread, you will see that screw in LEDs are at least comparable to your 150w HPS in terms of quality and production. PCBuds is just playing around with different things, like many of us did when we first discovered SILs. The 200 lm/w he was referring to is in reference to the LED strips that require a little more DIY but are more efficient because of the circuitry. Your responses clearly show you didn’t read any of the thread, not even a few pages back from this one...

I use Osram 9.5w bulbs. They have an advertised efficiency of 111 lm/w, and we’ve discussed earlier in this thread that it is definitely higher with the globes removed. If we compare the same 150w x 111lm = 16,650 lm. This would be spread between 15 or 16 of my bulbs, giving me a much more even light spread than a single source HID. Also LED point strait down, so 1/2 of my light doesn’t need to hit a reflector just to reach the canopy. I live in the tropics, it’s never below 70f. Running a HPS would fry my little cabinet.

114w mixed spectrum (something else you can’t do with only a single HID). There are a lot more impressive results than this from others here.

View Image
View Image

I recently bought 14w bulbs because they were on sale for a 2 pack. They have an advertised efficiency of 107lm/w. So again 150w = 16,050 lm. Using recycled pallet wood, I was able to build a 140w light for around $45 to buy 10 sockets, bulbs, and a heavy duty extension cord.

View Image
View Image

That's great, but you kind of confirmed what I'm saying. I don't see any 200 lumen/watt lights still. You've basically shown me that it has the same efficiency, which also means they will have the same heat. Mixed spectrum? Um, the light that hits the plant is only one spectrum. You can mix and match bulbs, to change the spectrum, but "mixed spectrum" seems like a misnomer to me. In fact most LED illuminate at a very specific frequency, which means your spectrum will be quite narrow.

I realize that you think a 150w HPS lamp will emit more heat than 150w of LED, but in reality assuming that they are the same efficiency, they will also produce the same amount of heat. This is basic physics. While you may perceive less heat with LED, that's only because the heat is spread across multiple units instead of being emitted from a single source.

I do have to wonder if you've tried a small 150w HPS, or if you're just assuming that HPS = unmanageable heat? You need good airflow and ventilation either way.

Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

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