Genetics for foggy coastal Mediterranean climate?

Breadwizard · Aug 13, 2019

Mtn. Nectar said:
with “Indian Summers” commonplace along such clim’s ...better for later maturing sativa’s...like the original pure sativa BSHW..nothing like a sweet lanky trippy ripening sativa when all else = hay........

ganj on.....

The Indian summers make for the best times to visit for sure, however in this particular microclimate it comes with morning dew deposits on plants, with persistent fog that burns off a bit before noon, sometimes not burning off for much of the day (I joke that there are two seasons: more fog, and less fog). This causes major grey mold in most genetics I've tested. A big aspect of genetics selection is to get flowering to begin earlier, so harvest can occur before the death fog becomes too much of a problem in mid September.

Flying Monkey · Aug 14, 2019

Ive been playing with a bit of a erd purt bangi haze crosses in various combinations and a local earlier flowering afghan 'LP'. The Ace Erd Purt seems to be good genetics to bring on earlier flowering and a tough well structured girl too.

St. Phatty · Aug 14, 2019

Mr. Greengenes said:
I'm at 33n, about 200 feet above sea level, and a short stroll to the pacific ocean, so pretty similar to you. Our daylength is only about 14 hours 22 minutes at June 21.

Do you surf or skin dive ?

If you can literally walk to the Pac Ocean ... sounds like that area near where the cliff collapsed.

yardgrazer · Aug 14, 2019

Breadwizard said:
The Indian summers make for the best times to visit for sure, however in this particular microclimate it comes with morning dew deposits on plants, with persistent fog that burns off a bit before noon, sometimes not burning off for much of the day (I joke that there are two seasons: more fog, and less fog). This causes major grey mold in most genetics I've tested. A big aspect of genetics selection is to get flowering to begin earlier, so harvest can occur before the death fog becomes too much of a problem in mid September.

You sure you aren't in Vermont?

Breadwizard · Aug 14, 2019

Do parts of Vermont stay between 50 and 80 all year, never freeze (little frost, 2 times a year maybe) and is right on the beach? If so sign me up, gotta be way cheaper than that particular area of California.

PDX Dopesmoker · Aug 15, 2019

Breadwizard said:
Hi everyone! I've got an outdoor strain selection question, and would love some suggestions or thoughts:

I'm working on developing an outdoor line for my folks, and the particular microclimate they live in can be tricky to choose genetics as a base. They are big fans of sativas, and I gifted them a few selections of Bangi haze from Ace, as well as some Purple Mexican from CBG, both if these had to be chopped early due to botrytis. This was especially surprising as the bangi haze is said to be quite resistant.

The microclimate itself is a coastal "warm summer Mediterranean," sitting a few hundred feet above sea level, a few miles from the coast, at about 35 north. The area however gets lots of fog, and is always humid in the mornings, especially as fall begins. The area is used traditionally by seed companies for vegetable and flower seed production, because the climate encourages early ripening.

Anyway I'm thinking I need to shorten up the flowering period a touch, and perhaps get flowering to trigger earlier, with a med hash plant variety like Lebanese (the one available through Ace or RSC) or Morocco, as these traditional areas have similar latitudes, and are known to finish early enough to avoid the humid cold mornings as fall approaches.

Other climate info: stays between 55-75 all year, only gets below freezing once a year or so in December, with winter usually being wetter than summer.

Any thoughts or musings on source genetics for this microclimate?

Do you really know a lot about making bread as you name implies? Some of that knowledge should help in controlling botrytis, because botrytis is a fungus like your friend Saccharomyces cerevisiae, but the botrytis has different habits.

Botrydial is produced by Botrytis cinerea when the host plant is infected. As a result, botrydial induces chlorosis and cell collapse. Additionally, aggressive strains of the fungus secrets polyketides such as botcinic acid that exhibit phytotoxic and antifungal activity.

The fungus you're having problems with actively suppresses plant defenses against fungi, so it might not be all that possible to breed a plant thats specifically resistant to botrytis, or it might be a real needle in a haystack. You might want to try cultivating parasitic fungi which eat botrytis in the environment to control the problem instead. Gliocladium roseum and Trichoderma harzianum are the two fungi that get mentioned for controlling botrytis. Also if you're not spraying BT for cabbage moths then you might want to add that to the routine. Those caterpillars seem to instigate a lot of botrytis infections. Applying dry diatomaceous earth to plants seems like it might also help some against the fungus, not sure how or why, but maybe it helps by slicing up the fungal hyphae some or acts as a desiccant on the plant's surfaces.

Teddybrae · Aug 15, 2019

Oh yeah ... I just remembered that Mango Haze yields heavy too. Byee!

Breadwizard · Aug 15, 2019

PDX, I do work with the yeast and bacteria in my bread work quite a bit, I'm a sourdough baker (although not professionally anymore). Breadcraft is all about fostering an environment and conditions to encourage the type of microbiological flora and fauna activity desired.

I see the battle against the plant microbial pests similar. It's less about it being specifically resistant to the grey mold, and more trying to avoid conditions that foster the grey mold (that I can control). To me this means selecting towards plant habit and structure that encourages airflow (open structure plant and flowers, thinner leaves, flexible stems that sway in the wind), and genetics that flower before the wet foggy season worsens conditions.

Flying Monkey · Aug 16, 2019

100 percent on the structure and resistance Bread... Large apical buds can be hard work to keep mold free but dispersed even buds across the plant help me in bad years.

Im a big fan of potassium and Calcium too for mold defense.

Was a tom hill thread maybe on this site talking about the massive amounts [by my standards] of gypsum he was putting in his standard large plant mix.
Improved the cell walls resistance to fungal attack he felt. Ive seen it help and gypsums cheap.

Also read some good essays on K levels reducing molding in other herbs- basil i remember from a few years ago. So i make sure a good organic k dressing happens before we get too far into flowering- Potassium Scorbate's my go too if everythings falling apart and i simply must use something.. :monkeyeat

Flying Monkey · Aug 16, 2019

My bad- thats potassium bicarbonate...

PDX Dopesmoker · Aug 19, 2019

Breadwizard said:
PDX, I do work with the yeast and bacteria in my bread work quite a bit, I'm a sourdough baker (although not professionally anymore). Breadcraft is all about fostering an environment and conditions to encourage the type of microbiological flora and fauna activity desired.

I see the battle against the plant microbial pests similar. It's less about it being specifically resistant to the grey mold, and more trying to avoid conditions that foster the grey mold (that I can control). To me this means selecting towards plant habit and structure that encourages airflow (open structure plant and flowers, thinner leaves, flexible stems that sway in the wind), and genetics that flower before the wet foggy season worsens conditions.

I was reading about botrytis a little and came across it's preferred PH range, which is 4-8. Maybe a sufficiently alkaline environment could keep the stuff in check.
This audio entertainment might be of use to you too
https://www.shapingfire.com/podcast...n-scientific-detail-with-guest-kevin-mckernan

Flying Monkey · Aug 22, 2019

I cant find the crew doing it now- but was reading some interesting techs on just using PH corrected water to deal with pests and molds just using ph fluctuations.

Depending on what they were targeting doing foliar drenches way outside the mold or bugs comfortable range and then correcting it with a buffering drench shortly after.
Well outside the comfortable range for the ganja too mind you. First it denatured the fungal spores and bugs and then they restored a comfortable range before it had a chance to burn the kind. They were talking about it as the new wave solution for a bunch of hassles. Seemed risky to me though..

Want to feel pretty confident before i drench my ladies in acid.

St. Phatty · Aug 22, 2019

Seems like a quick finish is what you want when there is a higher probability of mold.

I nominate C99 & its cousins, e.g. F3's of Apollo 11, and other Apollo's.

PDX Dopesmoker · Aug 22, 2019

Flying Monkey said:
I cant find the crew doing it now- but was reading some interesting techs on just using PH corrected water to deal with pests and molds just using ph fluctuations.

Depending on what they were targeting doing foliar drenches way outside the mold or bugs comfortable range and then correcting it with a buffering drench shortly after.
Well outside the comfortable range for the ganja too mind you. First it denatured the fungal spores and bugs and then they restored a comfortable range before it had a chance to burn the kind. They were talking about it as the new wave solution for a bunch of hassles. Seemed risky to me though..

Want to feel pretty confident before i drench my ladies in acid.

For botrytis, the listed ph range it prefers is 4-8 so I was thinking of going alkaline rather than acidic. Sodium carbonate solution is what I was thinking about maybe trying. Post any links you have to what you were reading, this topic is getting really interesting to me because I have some lower latitude plants that are going to go into November this year so they'll probably need some help dealing with the conditions. Might be a good opportunity to experiment with some new techniques.

Flying Monkey · Aug 23, 2019

PDX Dopesmoker said:
For botrytis, the listed ph range it prefers is 4-8 so I was thinking of going alkaline rather than acidic. Sodium carbonate solution is what I was thinking about maybe trying. Post any links you have to what you were reading, this topic is getting really interesting to me because I have some lower latitude plants that are going to go into November this year so they'll probably need some help dealing with the conditions. Might be a good opportunity to experiment with some new techniques.

Could go either way i would have thought but 'drenching the plants in basic' doesnt have the same ring to it. :biggrin:

No reason i can think of baking soda wouldn't work- ive seen people reccomend it for mold, but potassium bicarbonates a useful element for the plant so its a bit of a foliar in one. Thats basically the active ingredient in greenscure anyway i think.

Hmm maybe were onto something.

Flying Monkey · Sep 3, 2019

Well ive been looking all over for the link to the talk where the dudes were using this tech on ganja, ill keep looking. But i did find some more on the tech in other agricultural fields.
https://revistas.unal.edu.co/index.php/ingeinv/article/view/23631/35705

Ph control out of the target species comfortable range is one of the main mechanism for organic fungal control.

Interesting too on going basic rather than acid, seems foliar penetration is maximised for most elements at the 4-5ph range which is something I can learn from with all my foliar treatments.

P.s Hope this is useful to you too Breadwizard and were not just derailing your thread. :tiphat:

PDX Dopesmoker · Sep 3, 2019

Flying Monkey said:
Well ive been looking all over for the link to the talk where the dudes were using this tech on ganja, ill keep looking. But i did find some more on the tech in other agricultural fields.
https://revistas.unal.edu.co/index.php/ingeinv/article/view/23631/35705

Ph control out of the target species comfortable range is one of the main mechanism for organic fungal control.

Interesting too on going basic rather than acid, seems foliar penetration is maximised for most elements at the 4-5ph range which is something I can learn from with all my foliar treatments.

P.s Hope this is useful to you too Breadwizard and were not just derailing your thread.

I'm still interested in any strains that withstand the rigors of botrytis, if they're available, but I've never really heard of one. I wonder if resin has a varying ph range depending on cannabinoid or terp content, maybe theres a high ph terp that the botrytis can't live with.

willydread · Sep 3, 2019

Hi,at 45 N, Mediterranean climate with a lot of fog and rain from mid october to late november, and ice in late December/january, I completed zamaldelica, Honduras, green/purple oldtimer haze x thai, haze x skunk...
If it can help you...

Flying Monkey · Sep 3, 2019

Ive got no doubt there are far more resistant strains then others- but when a girls getting into senescence eventually shes gonna mold. Oldschool Texada Timewarps another with pretty epic resistance too- but nothing ive grown out in the last 15 years have come close.

Breadwizard · Sep 3, 2019

Little update, I was at the target location and took a look at the back yard. Currently the nepjam (right) is three weeks into flower as of a couple of days ago. To the left is a critical haze, also about three weeks.

There are some cuts which are further along, but already have mold, so are already getting harvested. WiFi got it the worst, along with grape ape. Wedding cake seems the most resistant of the cuts, but it is beginning to mold ad well.

Genetics for foggy coastal Mediterranean climate?

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