What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Soil amending/mineralization question

YukonKronic

Active member
Once you feel safe that your soil is in "okay" shape I can tell you that plain old bonemeal or high P guano for phos works well and both contain Calcium.
Many are down on blood meal but I use it for N and iron... go LIGHT this one it can burn plants.

Kelp meal has all the micro nutrients you need but pair it with micronized greensand and azomite and your GOLDEN for micros.

If you need more K a (light) sprinkle of clean wood ash works well.

Add Gypsum if you feel like it but the reality is that theres lots of Calcium in most plants and animals so some compost or even milk may be all you need in conjunction with bone meal or guano. Some kind of Rock dust is nice to have... u can harvest from streams/ponds or maybe you live around glacial till you can sieve. Even the dust piled at foot of rock faces and cliffs is good just dig down to where it holds moisture and sieve it. Getting the moist stuff means you probably have Phosphorus solubilizing bacteria in it too.. it'll smell earthy.

There. You have N P K and micros easily accessible... topdressing lightly works but I definitely recommend worms and a good mulch layer to facilitate the soils "digestion" of nutrients..
 
Last edited:

YukonKronic

Active member


It's worth learning... I put myself at "upper intermediate" level of skill and this Living Soil bed paired with Ace Golden Tiger has me pretty happy with the soil food web and all its glory:biggrin:

I started in 2016 and it's really only getting better every year.
 

Fiddynut

Active member
You should pick up the "teaming with" series of books by Jeff Lowenfels... teaming with microbes and teaming with nutrients are both really useful to give an idea what's happening in your soil and how it moves into your plants.

Calcium is very important but there are many factors influencing plant health and nutrition. For instance I believe too much phosphorus can impede Calcium uptake as can low temperatures.
Do you have a method to test ph? If you have been resorting to "a little more of this or maybe that I guess" to fix your plants then you probably over saturated your soil with Nutrients especially considering bottled Nutes are MEANT to be strong so you get $ worth from the bottle.

I'm thinking JUST water at correct PH for at LEAST a couple days maybe more depending on plants size. If you over fertilize it can kill your plant in hours if your plant gets hungry it will take a LOT longer to die.
Look at your roots often. Are they moist? Are there dry pockets? Is it soaking dripping and mucky smelling? Keep in mind that roots need oxygen as well as water and food.

Plants that seem always to have dry spots in rootball need to sit in a water dish for a half day or so... peat can become hydrophobic when it dries too much...

SlowNickel has interesting things to say on Calcium saturation and soil CEC.., I recommend it more to understand CEC than Ca at this point for you but still interesting. Organic soils need time to establish too.. don't try to push too hard or it goes bad long term. Organic growing has been very rewarding for me but definitely requires some patience for the learning and the growing (pun intended) process.

JoeFresh has a really good guide to nutrient deficiencies and problems posted here too..

Once you feel safe that your soil is in "okay" shape I can tell you that plain old bonemeal or high P guano for phos works well and both contain Calcium.
Many are down on blood meal but I use it for N and iron... go LIGHT this one it can burn plants.

Kelp meal has all the micro nutrients you need but pair it with micronized greensand and azomite and your GOLDEN for micros.

If you need more K a (light) sprinkle of clean wood ash works well.

Add Gypsum if you feel like it but the reality is that theres lots of Calcium in most plants and animals so some compost or even milk may be all you need in conjunction with bone meal or guano. Some kind of Rock dust is nice to have... u can harvest from streams/ponds or maybe you live around glacial till you can sieve. Even the dust piled at foot of rock faces and cliffs is good just dig down to where it holds moisture and sieve it. Getting the moist stuff means you probably have Phosphorus solubilizing bacteria in it too.. it'll smell earthy.

There. You have N P K and micros easily accessible... topdressing lightly works but I definitely recommend worms and a good mulch layer to facilitate the soils "digestion" of nutrients..

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=78227&pictureid=1897325&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=78227&pictureid=1897330&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

It's worth learning... I put myself at "upper intermediate" level of skill and this Living Soil bed paired with Ace Golden Tiger has me pretty happy with the soil food web and all its glory:biggrin:

I started in 2016 and it's really only getting better every year.

Good afternoon YukonKronic.

Thanks for sharing with me. You have some great info here. Your plants are looking nice brother!

I have been growing in store bought soil with bottled nutes and having some success but I want to move tward a more natural method. I've been here on the mag for a couple years and I keep reading and learning. I'm not going to rush into anything but I feel that the natural move for me is living soil. For now I need to read and understand a bit more about what is going on in the soil and maybe the "teaming with" books can help with that. The hurdle will then be for me to grow some balls and get the ingredients and make the compost and just go for it.
 

YukonKronic

Active member
First thing: Get a worm farm going.
Second thing: Get a worm farm going
Third thing: Compost!
:dance013:
Tnx for props... it's definitely a learning curve. Lots of fun tho! The reading is just another way cannabis can expand minds..

Edit: it's funny I say those things because I don't have either as a "thing I have to do"... my worm farm is my soil bed and my compost source is an old pile that came with the property and was screened and used as most of my soil base... not regular stuff either. Mostly leaf mulch and lawn clippings...not watered or turned just heaped. It's too cold and dry for that to work up here so it only broke down to 80 or 90% of completely composted... consequently it was close to a rough peat consistency and made an ideal loose soil base. I use lots of Bio Char and wood chips/Lava rocks to combat compaction and keep enough oxygen in soil.. also found mycorrhizae like wood chips.
 
Last edited:
T

Teddybrae

There is either a Ca issue or a Mg issue. There is no such thing as a cal/mag issue. Those two minerals are antagonistic to one another and need to be adjusted/added separately. Liquid Cal/Mag WILL mess up your soil because there is always way to much Mg.


Excess Mg will cause a pH spike.


I agree with the above ... in theory. I know that according to Mulders Chart Mg prevents Ca doing it's thing of moving minerals around.


Yet I have a state of the art organic concoction that includes Ca and Mg together ... that works very well as part of a foliar program.


Also there is Dolomite which contains both minerals ... and it works well for me also.


So I am totally puzzled by the difficulties some growers have.


I know too that if pH is correct Gypsum will supply Ca ... but if pH is off, then the Ca in gypsum will remain bound and unavailable.


Like I said: I 'm totally puzzled ...
 

Fiddynut

Active member
First thing: Get a worm farm going.
Second thing: Get a worm farm going
Third thing: Compost!
:dance013:
Tnx for props... it's definitely a learning curve. Lots of fun tho! The reading is just another way cannabis can expand minds..

Edit: it's funny I say those things because I don't have either as a "thing I have to do"... my worm farm is my soil bed and my compost source is an old pile that came with the property and was screened and used as most of my soil base... not regular stuff either. Mostly leaf mulch and lawn clippings...not watered or turned just heaped. It's too cold and dry for that to work up here so it only broke down to 80 or 90% of completely composted... consequently it was close to a rough peat consistency and made an ideal loose soil base. I use lots of Bio Char and wood chips/Lava rocks to combat compaction and keep enough oxygen in soil.. also found mycorrhizae like wood chips.
Good afternoon YukonKronic.

Point taken about the worms.

You are so right about cannabis expanding minds. I came here to learn to grow because I wanted a good supply of buds and I have learned so much more. Ive learned to love the plant itself and caring for my plants brings a lot of joy. I'm even a little sad at harvest time to see them go. Now I'm learning about soil biology and all kinds of stuff that I never thought I'd be interested in.
Thanks for your help...Fiddy.
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
Why don't you send out a sap sample to be analysed to see what you are really deficient in. Is it cal OR mag. The thing is, calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate are water soluble. The plant just takes it up. It doesn't need to mineralize. My guess is it's something else if calmag isn't helping.
If its just calcium and the mag in the calmag is messing up like has been suggested, just try adding calcium nitrate. If that doesn't work, it's a totally different deficiency all together. I don't use calmag in my organic soil, but the nitrate form of calcium and magnesium is taken up the fastest and easiest and could be a good tool for diagnosing your problem.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I agree with the above ... in theory. I know that according to Mulders Chart Mg prevents Ca doing it's thing of moving minerals around.


Yet I have a state of the art organic concoction that includes Ca and Mg together ... that works very well as part of a foliar program.


Also there is Dolomite which contains both minerals ... and it works well for me also.


So I am totally puzzled by the difficulties some growers have.


I know too that if pH is correct Gypsum will supply Ca ... but if pH is off, then the Ca in gypsum will remain bound and unavailable.


Like I said: I 'm totally puzzled ...

If you don't have enough Mg... Well it'll obviously be in short supply.
If you have too much Mg it will lock out Ca and tighten up your soil causing it to hang onto too much water. Having Ca locked out & being the transporter of nearly all the other nutes, will cause serious nutritional uptake issues across the board. Holding water creates anaerobic conditions.


Dolomite's Ca/Mg ratios are off (favoring Mg increases) but it seems to work well in very loose, well airated, soilless mixes.

I'm curious what this state of the art Ca/Mg supplement is?
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
The state of the art liquid ca/mg supplement is calmag +. The nitrate form is of ca and mg is just the most affective. The only problem is its ratio of ca to mg doesn't work with everyone's soil or water. Ca nitrate and mg nitrate can be purchased separately though and used at levels that work for you.
For my living soil, i tend to get enough calcium from my amendments. The chicken manure and bone meal alone is almost enough. I throw in some cal-phos in and it's plenty. For magnesium, i use the sulfate form. I do a little langbeinite here and there for potassium and it's also enough for magnesium.
 
T

Teddybrae

If you don't have enough Mg... Well it'll obviously be in short supply.
If you have too much Mg it will lock out Ca and tighten up your soil causing it to hang onto too much water. Having Ca locked out & being the transporter of nearly all the other nutes, will cause serious nutritional uptake issues across the board. Holding water creates anaerobic conditions.


Dolomite's Ca/Mg ratios are off (favoring Mg increases) but it seems to work well in very loose, well airated, soilless mixes.

I'm curious what this state of the art Ca/Mg supplement is?


Very well, there is an international company near here
 
Last edited:

YukonKronic

Active member
Crushnyuba has it right... I use Calcium carbonate for lime as well rock dusts and some crushed oyster shells to add to tilth as well as slow release Ca and liming. Other than that my Ca comes predominantly from bonemeals and the odd topdress of rock dusts. Guano is also high in Ca as are many plants.

I make fish hydrolysate and like adding extra fishbone meal (the low N kind... it exists look for it :biggrin:) and a bunch of eggshells to boost Ca and Phos a bit. Mix that with some FPEs made from a few common weeds like yarrow dandelion nettle pigweed or chickweed and your in goooood shape for some quick liquid feeds when needed.
 

Davesnothere420

Active member
I got soil that hasn't been used in 2 years and is in 300 gallon pots. How do I figure out what the soil needs? And how long does it take? Completely new at growing so all help would be awesome
 

h.h.

Active member
Veteran
I got soil that hasn't been used in 2 years and is in 300 gallon pots. How do I figure out what the soil needs? And how long does it take? Completely new at growing so all help would be awesome


Plant something. Watch how it grows.
You could have it tested, but most folks just get confused over the numbers.
 
Top