Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Cannabis Botany and Advanced Growing Science > Hollow Stems?

Thread Title Search
Post Reply
Hollow Stems? Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-30-2018, 05:08 PM #101
jidoka
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,581
jidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to all
on a Morgan test I am looking for 3000 lbs per acre Ca with Ca:Mg ratios of 7-10: 1. I want 1 ppm B. I have not established a soluble Si number in soil yet...in tissue I want a min 0.5%
__________________
The salt shaker
jidoka is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-30-2018, 06:35 PM #102
Bulldog11
Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,139
Bulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to all
Only 1ppm of Boron? Really? Maybe I have been over shooting. I try to hit 4ppm, don't get worried it's too high until 8 ppms.

As for Si, I haven't done enough testing with Si. It's not part of my standard test at Spectrum labs. However, you are correct. Si is an important part of this puzzle as well.

Like Jidoka said, it's about balance. So all elements should be taken into consideration. However Ca, B and Si are the main players in hallow stems. In order to balance said Ca, B and Si you need to balance every element.
Bulldog11 is offline Quote


Old 04-30-2018, 06:39 PM #103
jidoka
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,581
jidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to all
Soluble B. M3 will be higher
__________________
The salt shaker
jidoka is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-01-2018, 01:14 AM #104
Ibechillin
Member

Ibechillin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Tacoma, Washington 47n
Posts: 591
Ibechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyGoing View Post
That is exactly what Jidoka was trying to tell you guys. Too much N will result in a Ca deficiency...... That is why people use products like Albion Calcium...... watch the video

https://youtu.be/2omoNP1ijp4 start at the two minute mark if you want to skip a bit. The video is very informative for this thread, I suggest everybody watches the whole video. Listen to the delivery system of nutrients to the leaves.......
So I watched the video on Albion Calcium. Seems to me like someone just added a few drops of humic and fulvic acid with some soluble calcium powder to a jug of water and marketed it to a bunch of idiots as some miracle fix all.

But I am the incompetent one that has no clue how plant nutrition works...

"Humic and fulvic acids are intermediate chelators. Chela means claw, so chelates are organic molecules that attach to mineral ions like a claw, holding them tightly enough so they don’t get locked up in the soil, but loosely enough so they are available to the plant on demand.

Humic acid molecules are larger than fulvic acid molecules and make great soil conditioners. Fulvic acids are smaller, more biologically active molecules that are faster-acting and make excellent foliar sprays. Both improve the uptake of minerals, stimulate plant growth and improve the plant’s natural resistance to environmental stresses.

By supplying the soil with sufficient humic acid, we help to bind cations (positively charged elements). The ability to chelate positively charged multivalent ions (Mg, Ca, Fe and other “trace minerals” of value to plants) is probably the most important role of humic acid, with respect to your soil. By chelating the ions, humic acid facilitates the uptake of the ions by means of several mechanisms."
__________________
Read These And Thank Me later!

Results speak for themselves, do good work and you will never need to advertise.

Just Broke 3000 rep!


The Science Of Grow Lighting (HPS, CMH, LED) & Photosynthesis Explained!: (Sticky Thread!)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

The Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth, Information On Long Term Preservation:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

Tons Of Information On Max Efficiency Growing, Root Systems and Breeding:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

Silicon, The Misunderstood Element.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

Tons of information on Humic and Fulvic acid and their sources:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265

HOW TO GET 1.5+ GRAMS PER WATT!:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....330588&page=29

A Guide On When To Plant Outdoors & Force Flowering Without Covers For Multiple Harvests:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352312

Ibechillin is offline Quote


Old 05-01-2018, 01:28 AM #105
jidoka
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,581
jidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to all
Albion does not use humid/fulvic. Dig a bit deeper
__________________
The salt shaker
jidoka is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-01-2018, 01:57 AM #106
Ibechillin
Member

Ibechillin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Tacoma, Washington 47n
Posts: 591
Ibechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to allIbechillin is a name known to all
I understand there is probably more to it than that, my bad for coming off like an asshole.
If you could explain it more i would appreciate it.

My point is simply that i am not clueless on the availability of nutrients or metabolic processes that take place during the growth of a plant, or the causes of unhealthy stem decay/hollow pith.

My family has worked in the produce farming and retailing industry for 60 years, myself now going on 10 years. I have seen and experienced first hand the effects of deficiency on many types of growing and harvested plants. Blossom end rot and stalk rot are usually key signs of lack of calcium.

In relation to hollow stems in cannabis being caused from deficiency debate.
The newest growth on the plant will show Ca deficiency first typically as brown rust/spots, as the deficiency gets worse the cell walls of the plant become weaker and more prone to infection.

If the hollow stems are being caused by a lack of something, why dont the hollow stem plants give me signs of any deficiency in the new leaves while its growing, why arent branches becoming weak or developing stalk rot?
leaves growing lush green, With very sturdy fan leaf stems.

I just do not understand how an entire plant could be starving for calcium, silica, and boron and not show it on the leaves during its growth...

Edit: Read back a few pages and wanted to comment on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikell View Post
Hollow stems snap easier under strain, and do not recover as quickly as solid stems. I have seen the symptom progress to a near brittleness that is of no advantage to the plant.
My hollow stemmed plant's branches last season were extremely flexible, its how they were able to swing in the 70+mph wind and hold up being weighed down by rain, ice, and snow. Instead of stressing the center of the branches and cracking, or breaking off the trunk at the base they were super elastic, ready to return to its origin after the storm ended.
__________________
Read These And Thank Me later!

Results speak for themselves, do good work and you will never need to advertise.

Just Broke 3000 rep!


The Science Of Grow Lighting (HPS, CMH, LED) & Photosynthesis Explained!: (Sticky Thread!)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

The Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth, Information On Long Term Preservation:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

Tons Of Information On Max Efficiency Growing, Root Systems and Breeding:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

Silicon, The Misunderstood Element.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

Tons of information on Humic and Fulvic acid and their sources:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265

HOW TO GET 1.5+ GRAMS PER WATT!:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....330588&page=29

A Guide On When To Plant Outdoors & Force Flowering Without Covers For Multiple Harvests:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352312


Last edited by Ibechillin; 05-01-2018 at 03:17 AM..
Ibechillin is offline Quote


Old 05-01-2018, 04:03 AM #107
Natural high
Member

Natural high's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 670
Natural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud ofNatural high has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog11 View Post
Only 1ppm of Boron? Really? Maybe I have been over shooting. I try to hit 4ppm, don't get worried it's too high until 8 ppms.

As for Si, I haven't done enough testing with Si. It's not part of my standard test at Spectrum labs. However, you are correct. Si is an important part of this puzzle as well.

Like Jidoka said, it's about balance. So all elements should be taken into consideration. However Ca, B and Si are the main players in hallow stems. In order to balance said Ca, B and Si you need to balance every element.
Your not so Easygoing alias gets banned so you bring one of your many other identities in to continue where he left off. Anyone who feels the need to have multiple identities on a forum is not trustworthy imo and thus your opinion on this subject means fuck all. I don't care if my healthy plants have a hollow stem as it's not the part I'm smoking.
Natural high is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-01-2018, 11:51 AM #108
djonkoman
Member

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 265
djonkoman has a spectacular aura aboutdjonkoman has a spectacular aura aboutdjonkoman has a spectacular aura aboutdjonkoman has a spectacular aura aboutdjonkoman has a spectacular aura about
I also watched the video. nice explanation about calcium transport, and I'm sure it's a nice product in certain situations, like for a tomatogrower dealing with BER.
but it doesn't prove anything about hollow stems in cannabis.

so far the only source I have for hollow stems in cannabis being caused by calcium and/or boron deffciency are 2 posters in this topic. I have not been able to find any research papers about it, except for hollow stem disorder in brocolli/caulliflower. if there are any that I didn't find, please point me to them, I'd like to read them.
I understand there aren't that much papers dealing specifically with cannabis. but hollow stems in just one species(brassica oleracea) being caused by calcium/boron deffciency is not sufficient proof to say the same about cannabis, especially since those hollow stems in brassica look different.

looking at the pictures in this thread of cannabis with hollow stems, the plants look healthy, and the hollow part of the stem is a nice clean round hole, without brown color.
while hollow stem disorder in brassica looks more like damage, a torn uneven hole, with possible discoloration:



I'm open for the idea hollow stems in cannabis could be a sign of calcium defficiency, but looking at the evidence I've seen, I'm not convinced.
so far, I think the most likely is that hollow stem is just something some cannabisplants do. a trait with genetic variation within the species without clear benefit or detriment(except if you're growing for fibre, then I can imagine you would want hollow stems).
djonkoman is online now Quote


Old 05-01-2018, 01:12 PM #109
Bulldog11
Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,139
Bulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural high View Post
Your not so Easygoing alias gets banned so you bring one of your many other identities in to continue where he left off. Anyone who feels the need to have multiple identities on a forum is not trustworthy imo and thus your opinion on this subject means fuck all. I don't care if my healthy plants have a hollow stem as it's not the part I'm smoking.
Why do you need to stoop to this level man? I asked gypsy to bin Easy Going as he liberated my old account. Grow up man.
Bulldog11 is offline Quote


Old 05-01-2018, 01:14 PM #110
Bulldog11
Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,139
Bulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to allBulldog11 is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by djonkoman View Post
I also watched the video. nice explanation about calcium transport, and I'm sure it's a nice product in certain situations, like for a tomatogrower dealing with BER.
but it doesn't prove anything about hollow stems in cannabis.
A page or two ago, some people were saying nugs were sipping on the hallow stems drawing nutrients up. The video was showing different modes of vascular systems in the plant.

Step one, plant philology. Step two, applying it to cannabis.

We can now eliminate the possibility that hallow stems are better because they suck nutrients like a straw....... We have at least eliminated that possibility, right? We can move forward from that at least right?
Bulldog11 is offline Quote


Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:45 AM.




This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.