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heart failure via THC. First Cannabis Death?
- Thread starter OakyJoe
- Start date
Read through the article....
"We assume the deaths of these two young men occurred due to arrhythmias evoked by smoking cannabis; however this assumption does not rule out the
presence of predisposing cardiovascular factors.
The presented cases highlight the potentially hazardous cardiovascular effects of cannabis in
putative healthy young persons.
The absolute risk of cannabis-related cardiovascular effects can be considered to be low, as
the baseline risk for most cannabis smokers is low and cannabis-induced changes are
transient8,18.
Nevertheless, it is impossible to predict how certain
individuals respond to cannabis smoke, as underlying illnesses and complicating factors20 may be unknown"
Bottom line- it is unknown of primary cannabis use/abuse being the cause. Most in the general population do not KNOW of exact underlying diseases until lab work, an episode brings them to medical care......thus "impossible to predict how certain
individuals respond to cannabis smoke."
"We assume the deaths of these two young men occurred due to arrhythmias evoked by smoking cannabis; however this assumption does not rule out the
presence of predisposing cardiovascular factors.
The presented cases highlight the potentially hazardous cardiovascular effects of cannabis in
putative healthy young persons.
The absolute risk of cannabis-related cardiovascular effects can be considered to be low, as
the baseline risk for most cannabis smokers is low and cannabis-induced changes are
transient8,18.
Nevertheless, it is impossible to predict how certain
individuals respond to cannabis smoke, as underlying illnesses and complicating factors20 may be unknown"
Bottom line- it is unknown of primary cannabis use/abuse being the cause. Most in the general population do not KNOW of exact underlying diseases until lab work, an episode brings them to medical care......thus "impossible to predict how certain
individuals respond to cannabis smoke."
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When I was younger I was hired on, theoretically, as a "Mechanical Engineering Manager" at an electronics company in San Diego that had just been acquired by a British Company.
5 of the managers there had bought the company for $17 million, and were trying to sell it for $40 million to the British company.
IT WAS A SCAM.
The 5 VP's did all sorts of bullshit to make the company look good on paper.
For example, they booked jobs below cost to make it look like they had a big backlog.
As soon as the acquisition went through, they tried to cancel the jobs that were booked below cost.
The one customer, Israel DF in this case, said "no way".
So the VP's gathered us managers into a room and said, "you have 3 months to do 9 months worth of work. No CAD machines. Make it happen."
I left after 4 months. Before I left, I developed an arrhythmia that was ALARMING - at age 32. My heart's rhythm was like a Marimba band, totally fvcked up (my heart's rhythm, not Marimba).
The day after I resigned, the arrhythmia stopped. 99% stress-related. I smoked pot before, I smoked pot after.
I don't doubt that Cannabis can cause some people some problems.
As far as that company in San Diego, one of my favorite techs was Larry T. (helped me, a new guy & complete stranger, gather all the tools for a test set-up) ... and then he got laid off. He had a wife and 2 or 3 children to feed.
6 months later he went back in with dynamite and a few guns and shot the VP of manufacturing (as in dead), who was one of the five asshole VP's, and probably the biggest asshole of the 5. Very few tears were shed for that VP.
Now HE could have used some good Cannabis.
5 of the managers there had bought the company for $17 million, and were trying to sell it for $40 million to the British company.
IT WAS A SCAM.
The 5 VP's did all sorts of bullshit to make the company look good on paper.
For example, they booked jobs below cost to make it look like they had a big backlog.
As soon as the acquisition went through, they tried to cancel the jobs that were booked below cost.
The one customer, Israel DF in this case, said "no way".
So the VP's gathered us managers into a room and said, "you have 3 months to do 9 months worth of work. No CAD machines. Make it happen."
I left after 4 months. Before I left, I developed an arrhythmia that was ALARMING - at age 32. My heart's rhythm was like a Marimba band, totally fvcked up (my heart's rhythm, not Marimba).
The day after I resigned, the arrhythmia stopped. 99% stress-related. I smoked pot before, I smoked pot after.
I don't doubt that Cannabis can cause some people some problems.
As far as that company in San Diego, one of my favorite techs was Larry T. (helped me, a new guy & complete stranger, gather all the tools for a test set-up) ... and then he got laid off. He had a wife and 2 or 3 children to feed.
6 months later he went back in with dynamite and a few guns and shot the VP of manufacturing (as in dead), who was one of the five asshole VP's, and probably the biggest asshole of the 5. Very few tears were shed for that VP.
Now HE could have used some good Cannabis.
No doubt stress plays havoc with a body. Heart attacks from chronic undue stress, the list goes on.
As with cigarettes, cannabis smoke and residual tars can cause cardiovascular problems. NOTE: The absolute risk of cannabis-related cardiovascular effects can be considered to be low...
In this article, just 2 (TWO!) people were cited, all relatively young, and supposedly healthy. However, post mortem (autopsy) showed underlying (predisposed) causes.
One fellow wanted to 'commit suicide' by smoking as much reefer as he could. "A young soldier who had vainly tried to commit suicide by smoking cannabis spent 4 days in coma and claimed afterwards that others had used this method effectively before." THAT did not kill him, as he himself claimed it did not come to fruition....suicide by cannabis.
One case it was prior substance abuse....alcohol, meth, cocaine and 'occasional marijuana'. It was found he had acute (severe) cardiac failure due to several genes (genetic predisposition) and muscular cells of heart becoming enlarged, then dying, thus reason for heart attack.
The other died of a blot clot in his heart causing erratic heart (arrhythmia) beat and enlargement of the heart and tox screen showed low amount of marijuana in his blood.
So, trying to do a study on isolated cases to prove a point (marijuana kills!) is unfounded.
As with cigarettes, cannabis smoke and residual tars can cause cardiovascular problems. NOTE: The absolute risk of cannabis-related cardiovascular effects can be considered to be low...
In this article, just 2 (TWO!) people were cited, all relatively young, and supposedly healthy. However, post mortem (autopsy) showed underlying (predisposed) causes.
One fellow wanted to 'commit suicide' by smoking as much reefer as he could. "A young soldier who had vainly tried to commit suicide by smoking cannabis spent 4 days in coma and claimed afterwards that others had used this method effectively before." THAT did not kill him, as he himself claimed it did not come to fruition....suicide by cannabis.
One case it was prior substance abuse....alcohol, meth, cocaine and 'occasional marijuana'. It was found he had acute (severe) cardiac failure due to several genes (genetic predisposition) and muscular cells of heart becoming enlarged, then dying, thus reason for heart attack.
The other died of a blot clot in his heart causing erratic heart (arrhythmia) beat and enlargement of the heart and tox screen showed low amount of marijuana in his blood.
So, trying to do a study on isolated cases to prove a point (marijuana kills!) is unfounded.
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heiterbiswolkig
New member
Unfortunatelly, the story was all over the German media the last days, since the scientists are from here. In some cases it even made the frontpage.
Usual headline: "Proof: Cannabis can kill".
Followed by: "In this context, the events in the USA [legalisation in Colorado] have to be re-evaluated."
This is so poor journalism. Now I have first to explain why a case study with n=2 cannot proof anything, before getting to the point why prohibition is wrong.
Thanks to scientific illiteracy in journalism. Or a conservative media bias. Or both.
Everybody dies. Heart failure is THE leading cause of death. Therefore, anytime someone dies of heart disease, this does not necessarily mean there is a correlation between what they were doing/smoking/eating/drinking/running/working out/robbing a bank/having sex right before the attack and the cause of death. There is absolutely no proof that anyone has died from cannabis, however, this does not mean that someone with a weak/diseased heart might not be put in jeopardy by smoking, or any number of other activities.
I_Love_Seed
Member
A few puffs of a high CBD joint would've negated the effects of the THC. With so many millions of modern smokers, it would be wise if everyone carried a joint or vape pen with a 15% cbd med to save lives and stop bad trips. CBD is way too difficult to find.
There's always tough calls, such as the subject of DUI.
I lost a close woman friend in a head on with a drunk driver, when I was in my early 20's.
I think the movie 'The Crossing Guard' does a good job of exploring the subject.
I would just say, OK, yes, a few deaths are probably attribute-able to Cannabis.
But any thorough conversation about Cannabis would mention the fact that Cannabis was legal until about 1937, the Anslinger Reefer Madness crap.
Which would mean, from 1776 to 1937 - 161 years, about 2/3 of the Nation's 'Life' - Cannabis was Legal. And we did just fine.
So it's not legalizing, it's re-legalizing.
And yes, if you drive down the street TIRED, or tired and stoned, bad shit can happen, just as with drinking and driving.
Of course a thorough conversation would have to talk about deaths from legal drugs, e.g. alcohol & tobacco. A few hundred thousand each year ?
That they neglect to bring up these other facts indicates either an Agenda, or Ignorance, neither of which increases the Reporter/Propagandist's credibility on the subject.
I think when they talk about these things in the media it's EXTREMELY CONTROLLED to keep people from bringing up important details that completely invalidate their anti-Cannabis propaganda.
I lost a close woman friend in a head on with a drunk driver, when I was in my early 20's.
I think the movie 'The Crossing Guard' does a good job of exploring the subject.
I would just say, OK, yes, a few deaths are probably attribute-able to Cannabis.
But any thorough conversation about Cannabis would mention the fact that Cannabis was legal until about 1937, the Anslinger Reefer Madness crap.
Which would mean, from 1776 to 1937 - 161 years, about 2/3 of the Nation's 'Life' - Cannabis was Legal. And we did just fine.
So it's not legalizing, it's re-legalizing.
And yes, if you drive down the street TIRED, or tired and stoned, bad shit can happen, just as with drinking and driving.
Of course a thorough conversation would have to talk about deaths from legal drugs, e.g. alcohol & tobacco. A few hundred thousand each year ?
That they neglect to bring up these other facts indicates either an Agenda, or Ignorance, neither of which increases the Reporter/Propagandist's credibility on the subject.
I think when they talk about these things in the media it's EXTREMELY CONTROLLED to keep people from bringing up important details that completely invalidate their anti-Cannabis propaganda.
heiterbiswolkig is so right on this one...it's a payed-for article for sure.
In another german mag "die Zeit" aka "the time" the whole thing is looked at from a very different point of view...
the two guys were the only 2 with THC in their system out of 15 deaths that could not be explained in a study of like 2500 documented deaths where autopsies had been done.
one of the guys had cardiac issues already before that, and the other one died a day after he had smoked apparently...
Pfff they're trying to get all psychological with their prohibitionist propaganda by paying for articles and making them look legit enough for some people to believe it. From there on some are likely to believe this and even defend this position. it's not new...but hey, a doctor said so !
If you read deeper about this study, even the doctors say it's absolutely not proof of anything.
the bad guys are getting desperate... so maybe a good sign after all ?
In another german mag "die Zeit" aka "the time" the whole thing is looked at from a very different point of view...
the two guys were the only 2 with THC in their system out of 15 deaths that could not be explained in a study of like 2500 documented deaths where autopsies had been done.
one of the guys had cardiac issues already before that, and the other one died a day after he had smoked apparently...
Pfff they're trying to get all psychological with their prohibitionist propaganda by paying for articles and making them look legit enough for some people to believe it. From there on some are likely to believe this and even defend this position. it's not new...but hey, a doctor said so !
If you read deeper about this study, even the doctors say it's absolutely not proof of anything.
the bad guys are getting desperate... so maybe a good sign after all ?
L
lemongrove
After reading the report I believe that anyone with a family history of heart problems or anyone who has had any heart issues, should be very cautious when using marijuana.
My partner, who had never had any heart issues in her whole life, at age 51 smoked some pot and had an irregularly beating heart and a rapidly beating heart that happened off and on for two days. She finally asked me to take her to the emergency room on the second night and after tests, she was admitted. Further tests were done and it was initially thought that she had a heart attack.
After more tests she was told that it wasn't a heart attack but just an "episode." Hmmm Her family does not have a history of heart problems and the only thing had happened before the "episode" was that she had smoked some pot. What does that mean? Not sure but I think that we need to admit that marijuana can be a very strong and maybe even a dangerous drug for some people. The cases of these two young men should be cautionary tales.
My partner, who had never had any heart issues in her whole life, at age 51 smoked some pot and had an irregularly beating heart and a rapidly beating heart that happened off and on for two days. She finally asked me to take her to the emergency room on the second night and after tests, she was admitted. Further tests were done and it was initially thought that she had a heart attack.
After more tests she was told that it wasn't a heart attack but just an "episode." Hmmm Her family does not have a history of heart problems and the only thing had happened before the "episode" was that she had smoked some pot. What does that mean? Not sure but I think that we need to admit that marijuana can be a very strong and maybe even a dangerous drug for some people. The cases of these two young men should be cautionary tales.
I always use "heart failure" to describe super dank taht is more up/racy in effect.
IE. Oh shit that stuff gives you serious heart failure.
Totally off subject....but i saw the title
IE. Oh shit that stuff gives you serious heart failure.
Totally off subject....but i saw the title
I always use "heart failure" to describe super dank taht is more up/racy in effect.
IE. Oh shit that stuff gives you serious heart failure.
Totally off subject....but i saw the title
Heck. Some women have that effect.
NoEgoGenetics
Member
just 2 said to be HEALTHY ADULTS.. who knows they could have been up for weeks smoking crack.. before it all happened.. who knows.. but I don't believe cannabis is dangerous to all.. if anything maybe someone could be allergic to it.. but not die from it because it was toxic... unless someone is selling some moldy or powdery mildew nugs.. maybe. but not from clean flowers.
Cannabis can cause panic attacks which will give you a heartbeat like a marimba band, but that can be avoided by the right strength/dose and setting. This will somethimes fuck with you more than the duration of the high.
But it's a psychological issue, and will def. not kill you.
Been there, done that, it feels like you're about to die, you'Re absolutely certain you'Re havin a heart attack while losing your mind simultaneously. Your stress level goes off the richter and that itself causes real cardiac arrythmia and that feedback spiral can go on for hours or day or even weeks. Not fun at all, as you think you're dying all the time, but not dangerous from a physical point of view.
But it's a psychological issue, and will def. not kill you.
Been there, done that, it feels like you're about to die, you'Re absolutely certain you'Re havin a heart attack while losing your mind simultaneously. Your stress level goes off the richter and that itself causes real cardiac arrythmia and that feedback spiral can go on for hours or day or even weeks. Not fun at all, as you think you're dying all the time, but not dangerous from a physical point of view.
One thing that I've seen happen is that people's blood sugar gets low, sometimes, when they are high, and they get very very dizzy and/ or pass out.
I wouldn't mention it in the context of an unhealthy effect of Cannabis, because I don't think it is.
If I was a "trip guide" I would hand them a Granola Bar or something and ask them to lay down at the first sign of dizziness.
Especially if they was a single lady
Here is one story more about this subject, serious news...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...DIE-cannabis-poisoning-smoking-joint-bed.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...DIE-cannabis-poisoning-smoking-joint-bed.html
yeah, saw that one earlier already... cannabis poisoning... sure ;-)
Even assuming this headline is true (which I'm skeptical of), from a worldwide perspective it took several billion joints smoked, bongloads snapped and edibles eaten before someone died from cannabis.
People die from tobacco, alcohol and prescription drugs EVERY SINGLE DAY.
People die from tobacco, alcohol and prescription drugs EVERY SINGLE DAY.
wonder how much bacon, egg & cheese breakfast sandwiches they had in their system...?
can anyone cut/paste the summary or whole text? dont feel like downloading a pdf off a forum & all
rob feature
Member
Not sure about the other guy, but according to the study one of the guys had a few hobbies: A 28-year-old male with a history of substance abuse (alcohol, amphetamines and cocaine until about 2 years before death; occasionally cannabis)
In both of the cases, they speak of finding pot on or near both of them. In both, they also list cause of death THEN go on to mention under the acute influence of cannabis. Followed by After exclusion of other causes of death we assume that the young men died from cardiovascular complications evoked by smoking cannabis. In other words, they couldn't find anything else, so it MUST be teh pot. And then We assume the deaths of these two young men occurred due to arrhythmias evoked by smoking cannabis; however this assumption does not rule out the presence of predisposing cardiovascular factors.
Smells a bit of propaganda to me. I was unaware that credible researchers would publish a 'finding' with such far-reaching consequences based on assumptions.
