Outsourcing Seed Production

aquavitae · Oct 1, 2017

hi there,

we know that seedbanks like e.g. DNA (raredank and karma too?) outsource their seed production overseas, fair enough.

question would be regarding specific breeders: do archive, bodhi and brothers grimm outsource their seed production as well, or do they only produce in the US?

best regards

AV :tiphat:

SICE · Oct 1, 2017

They do that?

Won't be buying these any time soon anyway

aquavitae · Oct 2, 2017

that is definitely not the point of my question, to deteriorate clients of breeders, more so for personal interest and research. i can vouch 100 % for Karma and RD, can dig up pics if you like. (Headbanger = AAA+ weed) regardless of where the seeds were produced imo. correct me if im wrong.

AV

SICE · Oct 2, 2017

aquavitae said:
that is definitely not the point of my question, to deteriorate clients of breeders, more so for personal interest and research. i can vouch 100 % for Karma and RD, can dig up pics if you like. (Headbanger = AAA+ weed) regardless of where the seeds were produced imo. correct me if im wrong.

AV

I really have no idea. I'm sure the quality is good but maybe it leaves the potential for mistakes or genetics not matching up.

It's tough to keep track now I imagine it's even tougher to track down a labeling mistake or cross pollination if it's all being outsourced.

Every make a call to an outsourced calling center? Yea it sucks

beanz · Oct 2, 2017

yeah does,nt feel to homely when breeders out source , your kinda backing the guy and his brand . if he's hands on well cool imo ...... but some get there gear made in another country which is pretty hard to over see ...

bros grimm , work in house , same as bodhi .....no idea about archive or others .

i,ll give you an example why i don,t like it ....i was approached by a well known seed company , guy doesn't know me from a bar of soap , wanted me to start making seed for him and selling in my country ...... i was approaching to actually buy seed . this is well known person too ....

if thats quality control no thanks . needless to say i did,nt buy seed ...either . no wonder his seed company went to shit cause he started producing average gear .

i,m sure other breeders and a lot more vigilant. ( lets hope )

Guy Brush · Oct 2, 2017

beanz said:
guy doesn't know me from a bar of soap , wanted me to start making seed for him and selling in my country ...... i was approaching to actually buy seed . this is well known person too ....

if thats quality control no thanks . needless to say i did,nt buy seed ...either . no wonder his seed company went to shit cause he started producing average gear .

i,m sure other breeders and a lot more vigilant. ( lets hope )

Would like to know the name, when you can pm me. I think you're right. Outsourcing makes too much room for errors that don't get cleared. I suspect this is why newer DNA and GH Lemon skunk didn't bring lemon phenos, at least over a certain time window. I suspect they were made by the same "maker".

Limeygreen · Oct 2, 2017

Outsourcing can be well done, if they are given the parents to make the seeds, know the varieties and know how to grow, healthy plants = healthy seeds. Skunkman used to sell wholesale to TFD, that would technically be an outsourcing, they put their label on it he made the seeds. If there is no transparency and set protocols for the seed making then forget it, standard practices, quality testing (not just germ tests) will end up separating the proper breeders and seed companies from nickel and dime ones especially with more and more legalization happening around the world, just a smash and grab how some folks operate.

eyes · Oct 2, 2017

Brothers Grimm does there own breeding. Soul is back at it full time in Colorado. Must be serious quit his job and exposed himself with real name (Ricky Camp) on ADAM DUNN show. Cinderella is almost the same but not quite. Never any purple leaning genes. Never.

Certainly not finishing in 56 -63 days. Shes original a 49 to 52 day finisher of tropical pineapple smells. Whatever he breed the original clone that subcool supposedly held for 18 years must be worth regardless. STILL its not the original recipe. No sir. I got some joeys C99....

We will see what these are about. His(Joey) Sweettooth#3 are certainly not what i remember. Not even close. Somebody please step up and pass me those genes

.------Not your Carnivore--------
Mr.- they- in- the- mail- im- getting- to- it. Yeah, I called you out bitch. I absolutely despise people that dont follow through and are rip off artists.

aquavitae · Oct 3, 2017

alright thats interesting for sure

someone on IG let us know that bodhi also only produces in the US exclusively. so far the same amount of people claim outsourcing does or doesnt have an effect on the quality of the product. it makes most sense though that if the original parental stock is used that the seeds should be relatively the same quality.

I would be cool to know about Docta because he has great stuff as well

AV

MJPassion · Oct 3, 2017

Considering the availability of The Doctas beans, I would phathom a guess that all his seed production is done within a small group of breedes that have been doing their thing for a couple decades, in house.
This is not conformation!

Listen to the Meangenefrommendocino interview on the potcast.

aquavitae · Oct 3, 2017

i actually listened to meangenes episode a few days ago! coincidentally! so much info seems like a extremely experienced cat ! in general great show imo because adam just sometimes cant shut up on his show (no offense

) but its a huge offturn to me. potcast is great! cheers MJPassion

and everybody

AV

kro-magnon · Oct 3, 2017

In the seeds business outsourcing is the norm and people selling what they have produced themselves is pretty rare.All big companies buy their seeds from many different breeders.
Karma is not a USA company, the breeder is Dutch but he has set-up a production unit in the states recently.
Quality can be good even with outsourced production but I certainly prefer to buy seeds from the real breeder and producer of the seeds. My favorite breeders today are Bodhi and Karma, all the seeds I got from them produced some very fine cannabis.

Budley Doright · Oct 3, 2017

OUtsourcing can be a good thing..... If a person grows only one variety...and thats it.... I can see that would solve a lot of quality .... mix ups that a guy with multiple varieties might have.....

aquavitae · Oct 3, 2017

i agree Karma and bodhi definitely have superior genetics

also really hold their philosophies in very high regard and they have a great reputation as people as well!

therevverend · Oct 3, 2017

It seems foolish to keep all your breeding stock all in one place or area. If something bad happens you lose it all. I think that's what happened to several breeders who previously had good reputations. Lost their breeding moms and had to start over from inferior seeds.
It's a paradox, a good breeder wants tight control but the more successful they become the more they have to depend on others because they only have so much time. Lots of these guys start out good then stretch themselves thin and their reputation and quality bottom out.
Many breeders have great reputations because of one or two strains. Which is fair, but it makes the breeders that consistently put out good stuff for years all the more impressive.

CosmicCharlie · Oct 3, 2017

Some good points have been made.

I feel like outsourcing is bad because it usually leads to inferior products.

Perhaps breeders should stick to a few different strains and try to perfect them. Kinda like DJ, BOG, Karma, Tony Green, etc. And don’t put out polyhybrid or the latest elite x elite or outsourced trash. Not naming names.

Also problems come with Breeders not testing seeds. I feel like outsourcing testing of seeds is ok.

xavier7995 · Oct 3, 2017

Tbh, I think it's sort of like being a chef. If it's a large well known seed company I would expect them to have just some random sous chef growing for seed, it's not like they even need to turn out great weed, just get it over the finish line. Do you think Mario batali is in the kitchen making your spaghetti?

Mostly I would expect the breeders to find interesting combinations of plants, akin to coming up with a recipe, and get it down perfectly; but the day to day turning out of product is handled by some guy the chef trained. That said, any quality issues lay directly at the feet of the breeder/chef so it's in their own interest to ensure they don't destroy the brand.

kro-magnon · Oct 3, 2017

There is different ways to outsource the seeds production, one being you buy seeds from a source without knowledge of the plants used to produce them or you create a strain and give parent plants to a grower to make seeds.
If you create strains and distribute the original plants to create them you still have control of the end product( more or less depending on grower's skills).

MJPassion · Oct 4, 2017

An outsourcerer recently contacted a friend of mine & offered them $1 a seed for his productions using unknown parent stock.

Right there I see a problem w this outsourcerer.
First $1 a seed for the producer... When most go for no less than $6 each, the producer is getting jacked, imo.

If the producer were given parent stock in order to produce the seed they should get even more, imo.

Too many greedy middle men.
Producers don't get paid for their worth.

Budley Doright · Oct 6, 2017

MJPassion said:
An outsourcerer recently contacted a friend of mine & offered them $1 a seed for his productions using unknown parent stock.

Right there I see a problem w this outsourcerer.
First $1 a seed for the producer... When most go for no less than $6 each, the producer is getting jacked, imo.

If the producer were given parent stock in order to produce the seed they should get even more, imo.

Too many greedy middle men.
Producers don't get paid for their worth.

Doesnt he get to keep the weed?????

I also presume the parent stock isnt unknown.....simply not identified to the producer....

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