Principante8
Active member
Thanks dude. All the plants that didn't hit the trash are looking great! Feels good being in the garden again.
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Hop Stunt Viroid in Cannabis
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Thanks dude. All the plants that didn't hit the trash are looking great! Feels good being in the garden again.
dramamine
Well-known member
What do you think helped you finally kick the fusarium? I have to ask. Been battling it for two years now and planning to move and start fresh, but I'm pretty worried it'll pop up at the next spot. It's been a nightmare of changing symptoms, dudded plants and money spent on useless remedies.
I'm really glad for you that you are getting back into some healthy plants.
Principante8
Active member
When the fusarium was following me from place to place it had to have either still been in my car or washing machine. Everything in the grow room was replaced and I moved twice plus the short warehouse gig. So I had it at four spots. You wouldn't think it would be possible.
I read an article about a study done involving fusarium in washing machines. I don't remember much of it now other than it was found in a shockingly high percentage of machines and people that use fabric softener are more likely to have it in theirs. There are several different types of fusarium and maybe the kind that affects plants can't survive in a washing machine like other types, but maybe it can. I don't know what else it could have been. All these years later I think about it all the time and it's still the only thing I can come up with. I keep a clean garden.
After the warehouse it destroyed my spot at home. After a couple shady rounds and I moved again. Bummer to leave my spot after 13 years. So, six months in warehouse, six months at my house. I didn't realize when I left the building how bad it really was. To be fair, in the building I had way more than just fusarium and I didn't test anything back then. I separated weird plants into three areas and one section was clearly hplvd.
By the time I got to the third spot I took things more seriously. I planted 200 seeds under 17kw. I bought all new gear except whatever was metal or plastic, wiped down, scrubbed or soaked in a barrel of bleach then physan 20 everything that was metal or plastic, then heat treated the room at 130 degrees before I put anything in it. Basically I kept my tables and lights and went nuclear on them with chemicals. All fans, filters, scissors, hoses, etc trashed.
The results were amazing! I was back in business and suddenly knew how to grow again! Then when I was on top of the world again everything came crashing down.
All of the seeds I planted I had purchased, with the exception of 3-4. I had a few SoCal Master Kush beans from plants I'd grown and was hoping to revive the variety after having thrown my clones out. Big mistake. I had been growing SoCal for 4 years or so and only saved a few seeds when it started acting weird. At that point broad mites were going around and were pretty new on the scene, same with root aphids, and I was reading what StormShadow was saying about the nematodes, so I thought I was dealing with some kind of critter. The Kontos and pylon worked on some of the plants in the warehouse but most were not affected by them so I thought maybe I just have the wrong chemicals for the wrong pest. If I would have known it was fusarium or any kind of pathogen I would have never saved any seeds. This is when I started sending samples to the lab.
The infected SoCal ruined my garden. I assumed it was that at least because all of the seeds grew like shit so I tossed them a week after they sprouted. They would have died either way. That harvest was about 70% and a mix of quality from A+ to B-. So much for my pheno hunt. I tossed everything and moved again. Unfortunately I was broke because even though my 70% harvest was enough to get by, my dog had dislocated three of my ribs while I was doing Tai chi and I couldn't get out of bed much for a couple months. It was just the two of us in a secluded desert two hours from my hometown so I couldn't get any kind of hired help. Unfortunately, in order to save time I had to buy clones, but I also planted another 100 seeds.
At the fourth place I didn't use the garage because it was detached and the bedrooms were all pretty big. 10 lights in one room, 7 in the other. Of course the clones I bought were shit and the 10 light room was infected with one of the three things I had seen in the LA warehouse. The harvest was not good and I tossed all of the clones I had cut into the trash. The 7 light room was the seed run and it turned out great. Thankfully the rooms were about 20 feet apart and one was a master so I used separate water sources, hoses, etc, wore different clothes and shoes into each room , etc. Two separate grows in one spot.
I was doing ok but after a round or two I felt like my plants were getting less vigorous. The fusarium I had previously took a couple rounds to settle in before it obliterated everything. It was like 75-85% yield, then 60-70% then next round everything dies. I felt like I was on that path again so I wasn't optimistic and probably would have moved again. I didn't have time to sort that out because I crashed my car and broke my back in a couple spots, sternum, rib, etc. It took a couple years to get back to normal physically, and I have some minor brain issues that really affect my memory quite a bit, but overall doing great now.
A few months after I crashed, my 90 year old Grandma was in poor health and needed looking after so I moved in. We both needed looking after I suppose. I got an EBT card from the state which was a trip because I'd been selling/growing weed and independent for about 20 years at that point and never imagined that happening. So, no rent and free food. Aunt and uncle paid storage because I was helping with Grandma, trimmed weed for gas and phone payment, and saved whatever money I could. Now it's five years later and the saving paid off.. I hope.
Because of the way my brain works now it's harder to think, remember, and be responsible, etc. I really just wanted to get a grocery store job and small apartment just like an 18 year old so I could minimize responsibility and work my way back into society while enjoying a stress free 3-4kw garden. Didn't even need a garage, a small two bedroom would have been fine. Then the mandates were threatened and I got going full steam ahead until I hit 88mph and was blasted back into the past. Now have a three car garage, a boat load of stress, I'm broke again, and I'm praying to God the sick clones don't ruin my garden again. My experience tells me this round will kick serious ass. The remaining plants are healthy and vigorous and about a week into the flowering cycle.
So, back to the fusarium...To make a long story short. It seems my memory failed me because I've come up with other things now that may disqualify the washing machine. I had forgotten about the clones I bought at the final spot :-/
I threw my washer out before I moved into my current place and I'd start with a new one regardless just to be as safe as possible. Don't use bagseed under any circumstances, you might as well buy clones if you do, as they could be infected. Heat kills fusarium. I think you'll beat it by moving and ditching whatever can't be sanitized with physan20. It's possible that pets can track it in if they've been digging or in bushes etc. Keep a pair of shoes that only go in the garden and nowhere else. Keep them at the door. Slip-ons for quick access and regular shoes for working. Not sandals because you'll drip nutrient water on your feet eventually.
Believe it or not I had 15 years of success before I started having problems. Looking forward to 15 more
I think you'll kick ass whenever you get a new spot. Good luck man, stay positive. Thanks for the encouragement.
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jackspratt61
Active member
When the fusarium was following me from place to place it had to have either still been in my car or washing machine. Everything in the grow room was replaced and I moved twice plus the short warehouse gig. So I had it at four spots. You wouldn't think it would be possible.
I read an article about a study done involving fusarium in washing machines. I don't remember much of it now other than it was found in a shockingly high percentage of machines and people that use fabric softener are more likely to have it in theirs. There are several different types of fusarium and maybe the kind that affects plants can't survive in a washing machine like other types, but maybe it can. I don't know what else it could have been. All these years later I think about it all the time and it's still the only thing I can come up with. I keep a clean garden.
After the warehouse it destroyed my spot at home. After a couple shady rounds and I moved again. Bummer to leave my spot after 13 years. So, six months in warehouse, six months at my house. I didn't realize when I left the building how bad it really was. To be fair, in the building I had way more than just fusarium and I didn't test anything back then. I separated weird plants into three areas and one section was clearly hplvd.
By the time I got to the third spot I took things more seriously. I planted 200 seeds under 17kw. I bought all new gear except whatever was metal or plastic, wiped down, scrubbed or soaked in a barrel of bleach then physan 20 everything that was metal or plastic, then heat treated the room at 130 degrees before I put anything in it. Basically I kept my tables and lights and went nuclear on them with chemicals. All fans, filters, scissors, hoses, etc trashed.
The results were amazing! I was back in business and suddenly knew how to grow again! Then when I was on top of the world again everything came crashing down.
All of the seeds I planted I had purchased, with the exception of 3-4. I had a few SoCal Master Kush beans from plants I'd grown and was hoping to revive the variety after having thrown my clones out. Big mistake. I had been growing SoCal for 4 years or so and only saved a few seeds when it started acting weird. At that point broad mites were going around and were pretty new on the scene, same with root aphids, and I was reading what StormShadow was saying about the nematodes, so I thought I was dealing with some kind of critter. The Kontos and pylon worked on some of the plants in the warehouse but most were not affected by them so I thought maybe I just have the wrong chemicals for the wrong pest. If I would have known it was fusarium or any kind of pathogen I would have never saved any seeds. This is when I started sending samples to the lab.
The infected SoCal ruined my garden. I assumed it was that at least because all of the seeds grew like shit so I tossed them a week after they sprouted. They would have died either way. That harvest was about 70% and a mix of quality from A+ to B-. So much for my pheno hunt. I tossed everything and moved again. Unfortunately I was broke because even though my 70% harvest was enough to get by, my dog had dislocated three of my ribs while I was doing Tai chi and I couldn't get out of bed much for a couple months. It was just the two of us in a secluded desert two hours from my hometown so I couldn't get any kind of hired help. Unfortunately, in order to save time I had to buy clones, but I also planted another 100 seeds.
At the fourth place I didn't use the garage because it was detached and the bedrooms were all pretty big. 10 lights in one room, 7 in the other. Of course the clones I bought were shit and the 10 light room was infected with one of the three things I had seen in the LA warehouse. The harvest was not good and I tossed all of the clones I had cut into the trash. The 7 light room was the seed run and it turned out great. Thankfully the rooms were about 20 feet apart and one was a master so I used separate water sources, hoses, etc, wore different clothes and shoes into each room , etc. Two separate grows in one spot.
I was doing ok but after a round or two I felt like my plants were getting less vigorous. The fusarium I had previously took a couple rounds to settle in before it obliterated everything. It was like 75-85% yield, then 60-70% then next round everything dies. I felt like I was on that path again so I wasn't optimistic and probably would have moved again. I didn't have time to sort that out because I crashed my car and broke my back in a couple spots, sternum, rib, etc. It took a couple years to get back to normal physically, and I have some minor brain issues that really affect my memory quite a bit, but overall doing great now.
A few months after I crashed, my 90 year old Grandma was in poor health and needed looking after so I moved in. We both needed looking after I suppose. I got an EBT card from the state which was a trip because I'd been selling/growing weed and independent for about 20 years at that point and never imagined that happening. So, no rent and free food. Aunt and uncle paid storage because I was helping with Grandma, trimmed weed for gas and phone payment, and saved whatever money I could. Now it's five years later and the saving paid off.. I hope.
Because of the way my brain works now it's harder to think, remember, and be responsible, etc. I really just wanted to get a grocery store job and small apartment just like an 18 year old so I could minimize responsibility and work my way back into society while enjoying a stress free 3-4kw garden. Didn't even need a garage, a small two bedroom would have been fine. Then the mandates were threatened and I got going full steam ahead until I hit 88mph and was blasted back into the past. Now have a three car garage, a boat load of stress, I'm broke again, and I'm praying to God the sick clones don't ruin my garden again. My experience tells me this round will kick serious ass. The remaining plants are healthy and vigorous and about a week into the flowering cycle.
So, back to the fusarium...To make a long story short. It seems my memory failed me because I've come up with other things now that may disqualify the washing machine. I had forgotten about the clones I bought at the final spot :-/
I threw my washer out before I moved into my current place and I'd start with a new one regardless just to be as safe as possible. Don't use bagseed under any circumstances, you might as well buy clones if you do, as they could be infected. Heat kills fusarium. I think you'll beat it by moving and ditching whatever can't be sanitized with physan20. It's possible that pets can track it in if they've been digging or in bushes etc. Keep a pair of shoes that only go in the garden and nowhere else. Keep them at the door. Slip-ons for quick access and regular shoes for working. Not sandals because you'll drip nutrient water on your feet eventually.
Believe it or not I had 15 years of success before I started having problems. Looking forward to 15 more
I think you'll kick ass whenever you get a new spot. Good luck man, stay positive. Thanks for the encouragement.
Have you split the base of any of your infected plants for a visual?
dramamine
Well-known member
I really appreciate your post, and your posts in the past too. The most insidious thing about this type of fusarium spp. is that it's airborne, so it seems impossible to control much less beat. When I got it, everything in flower showed the initial symptoms at once, which for me was pith autolysis/loss of turgor. Things were still producing well, but with late flower deficiencies. I thought I could live with it, but after awhile duds started happening along with the witches brooming, etc etc. Even now, I have some plants finish with deficiencies, but still good quality. Others just dud out and are worthless. I was running oxidizers in my feed for a while, but now trying beneficials, which keep the roots healthy for the most part, but don't have much effect overall. Very strange to have killer white roots and bad health up top. This fusarium recedes a bit, then surges again. Phsycological warfare all the time for me. It's taken over my mind in a lot of ways. Unhealthy.
I've tried starting plants in a seperate room, on a different floor even, but still immediate symptoms. That's why it's nerve racking to lay out money and labor to move, especially in this monstrous real estate market, while knowing I might just wind up bringing it along.
You've really been through the fucking wringer, man. I'm sincerely glad you are back in the swing of things. Long may it last. Thanks again.
Principante8
Active member
I didn't bother with all of these new weird ones because in my opinion it's hop latent viroid and not fusarium. When I had fusarium oxysporum I did cut into them for inspection. Visible from the outside was the classic reddish, pinkish, whitish, coloration at the crown up to an inch or two up the stalk. Inside was rot but not brown and gross, it was just overly dry looking and kinda breaking apart, like the fibers were looser and spread out. Almost like wood, wether it's a board or a stick, when it gets wet and dries out several times and weakened. It seemed the dry stem couldn't handle the moisture is the best way I can describe it. Sometimes the roots would look pretty good but the base of the stem was always affected. After I had seen it once I noticed every time but it's not as apparent as one would hope.
I don't think most folks would notice the crown without cutting into it unless they knew exactly what to look for or if it was an exceptionally bad case. Usually by the time the crown would be noticable the plants would already be on their way out, so it really didn't give much warning, however I did have a couple rounds of noticably affected pinkish crowns that only had lower quality buds and diminished yields instead of just totally dying. In my case the more visibly affected the crown was, the more the plants were affected overall in the end, regardless of the apparent vigor of the rest of the plant. Once the stem is cut open it's impossible to miss. It's like the difference between brand new lumber and ocean drift wood.
Principante8
Active member
Shit I know what you mean about psychological warfare. I grew for so many years with the occasional thrips, mites, mildew, etc. Grow guide problems as I called them. Before the age of broads, aphids, fusarium, hplvd, etc. I learned to grow in the 90's and there was no literature in the cannabis grow guides about the newer pests that are affecting our favorite plant. I came to the forums but we were all in the same boat, hoping someone else knew the answer. Nobody did. I kept throwing out genetics and moving new stuff in not realizing the pathogen had taken over my spot. I wondered if this was purgatory or a watered down hell. Had I died? Was I a bad person? Maybe just entered a parallel dimension like the twilight zone? Nothing was okay in my life at that time.
I started growing cannabis as my primary income source every since I was basically a teenager and all of a sudden in my mid 30's I couldn't grow anymore. No job to fall back on. It was tough. Hopefully 40's will be where it's at. When I saw the infected plants this time I almost had an aneurysm. My heart literally stopped and I thought I'd lose another spot. After a couple days it was apparent that my problem was different than the fusarium. I was startled because I had everything at the same time in my warehouse so my memory connected these weird plants to the fusarium at first. All of the plants I kept look perfect and are extremely vigorous. Hoping for the best this time around.
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
Only ignorant fucker I see here is you.
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
What am I supposed to be seeing here?
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
I'm looking at these pictures and listening to what you describing... And I think you should prolly go back to weed growing school. Looks like too much nitrogen and weak light. Just look at your plants there's like 3 feet of space between nodes.
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
So am I to understand you tested negative for hopsin virus, but you somehow still think you have it?
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
.
Believe it or not I had 15 years of success before I started having problems. Looking forward to 15 more
Sorry bout your ribs and your accident and your back and your grandma...
But... That was a lot of comedy in that post and I am further cemented in my belief you just not as good a grower as you imagine. Everything I've ever grown was bag seed and most of it was gold. Literally like popping lost treasure beans. I've had almost every deficiency you can have and seen 99% of all the pests, suffered a couple of infections even. And I've recovered from all of them. You can fix fusarium, it's a lot of work, and it doesn't transfer to the seeds you made. I've done it. I've done a lot of shit actually, that's why I'm so confident in my speech. I only ever speak from experience. I maintain that a lot of you are just using this and other plant diseases as a blanket excuse for you being bad at growing weed.
I've literally done it all the hard way since the beginning and I don't have any of the issues you all face in your 100 light setups with automated everything.
All that money and still can't tell when you have root issues.
Are you serious dude? You win Clown award of 2022 so far...congrats world greatest grower
Principante8
Active member
Tiny leaves and a very specific branching pattern. Of course you'd never be able to feel the brittle stems but they're there. Even though you're impolite and general just don't really seem to get it, they're posted there to help people like you as well as the less abrasive folks. I pray you never see anything like it in person. Because the plants pictured are not all the way weird yet they'll fool a lot of people. I got about 30 of them last time that went unnoticed until about 30 days into flower when they showed their true colors. This time I was smarter.
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
Who said I was the world greatest grower? According to most people you would ask on this site I'm a terrible grower. But still I don't get 99% of the problems you all get. Maybe try being a shitty grower like me?
Principante8
Active member
Let me give you a bit of a rundown to clarify some of your misconceptions.
Firstly, I grew up poor, living in mobile homes and small one bathroom apartments where I shared a room with my brother and sometimes my step brother and sister.when I was 16 I started selling weed and making more money than my mom. By 17 I had grown my first crop of cannabis. By age 21 I was growing full time as my only job. I've literally only worked worked 3-4 years of my life for others because I've usually done very well growing cannabis.
It was only when I wanted to switch from growing flowers to producing clones when things went wrong. I knew I had to get popular varieties so I went to the big clone bank at the time called progressive options in San Fernando valley. A month later my garden was never the same. I've grown in every hydro medium or system you can imagine, built gardens for numerous people and taught lots of people the basics of growing. The people I taught still know how to grow but I somehow forgot.
I Worked my way up from a 250w light in my closet to a 9000 square foot warehouse. I gave it everything I had. I hand watered coco under 50kw 1-2 times twice daily for 2 cycles. Didn't have money yet for any automation. Didn't have money for big enough pots so I could water once daily. I did the electric and most of the build out. Hard ass work.
How does one who can't grow use his cannabis garden to pay rent and bills for 25 years?
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dramamine
Well-known member
Why comment on something you know nothing about?
Principante8
Active member
Day 2 of flower right when the hps light came on. They will look yellow for a couple hours in the morning plus the color of the light. I figured people would understand the color situation but so many people are using led now so maybe I should have mentioned something. One more thing is I just added a good dose of Ful Power so if they get too green I'll hit them with half strength mix once or twice and they'll balance back out in half a day. Of I would have taken the pic three hours later the colors would look more normal. These plants were vegged under several double ended hps @ 600 watts. Any closer and they'd be unhappy with the excessive intensity. The ones under the 315s have tighter spacing but I couldn't afford the proper spectrum so I made due with what I have. While this particular cultivar is more stretchy than some, I do wish the nodes were closer together.
I included this picture because phones and computer screens are so vivid now days that I hoped people could see the texture and hardness of the stems. They feel hard but break very easily.
I'm using jacks 321 for the first time and it's doing pretty good but like always some varieties like it more than others.
Principante8
Active member
Blackwater OG infected vs normal
So whats the general consensus on treating/ curing the hplv???
