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Old 10-15-2020, 04:13 PM #1
there goes edro
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Can someone help me identify this deficiency/ deficiencies please?

Ever since I started growing in organic amended soil I've been having micronutrient problems of one kind or another. Wrinkling leaves, putting of mid and upper leaves and inveinal chlorosis all over the plant. It's been attempting to throw all this organic shit away and go back to chem fertilizer where I didn't struggle with these problems but my wife and I both agree that we enjoy the finish product better from organic but my yields have declined. I've heard that ph shouldn't be a factor in organics but I have a pen anyways because of these constant headaches! Ph at 6.2. Runoff at 1550 ppm but once again I hear ppm is not really relevant in organic growing but wanted to see what it is.

These are all different plants. First 3 pics are all clones of the same strain. Last pic is a much older plant that I'm begging. Any help would be much appreciated IC!
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Old 10-15-2020, 04:35 PM #2
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Hey edro, I have only recently started growing in soil with organic nutes but I still pH my nutrients to ~6.0 - 6.4ish. I used fox farm soil amended with some EWC, bio-char, and volcanic rock dust. Feed them fish fertilizer.

Some more info about your soil and nutes may help someone help you better.

Good luck and hope they get happy for you!
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Old 10-15-2020, 05:17 PM #3
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What pH are your watering/fertilizing at? Looks like Mg may be low. Could be several things. What all are you applying?

As a large organic farmer (300+acres) I can tell you pH does matter whether your are organic or not. Lot of BS out there in the Organic community. Ph has a lot to do with how light your mix is.
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Old 10-15-2020, 06:51 PM #4
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I'm going to have to get another soil test. To make a long story short probs started third time recycling soil. Lightly amended with ewc, blood meal, bone meal, and kelp meal. That round I added some compost because I heard it was a good soil conditioner and been having problems ever since. Soil has been flushed multiple times dolomite lime added. Eventually I got my soil tested and all nutrient levels were thru the roof. I've flushed and mix in fresh peat and Organic Mechanic soil to dilute the high nutrient soil. Since problems started when I moved I thought maybe it's my water source so I tried using distilled water but same problems occurring. I didn't amend for a few runs to allow the plants to use to nutrients in soil. Sending some more soil in to get tested to if I can find a solution. Think I might have to face facts that somehow I've fucked this soil up to the point I can't fix it and throw away. Just with all the other soils I've added to dilute I'll be throwing a couple hundred gallons of soil. Never been the giving up type but after years of disappointing crops it may be time to say fuck it and go back chem nutes and stop wasting time and money. I really love the whole ideology of growing organically but it may not be for me.
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Old 10-15-2020, 06:53 PM #5
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Originally Posted by unregistered190 View Post
Hey edro, I have only recently started growing in soil with organic nutes but I still pH my nutrients to ~6.0 - 6.4ish. I used fox farm soil amended with some EWC, bio-char, and volcanic rock dust. Feed them fish fertilizer.

Some more info about your soil and nutes may help someone help you better.

Good luck and hope they get happy for you!
Seen you around for a few years around here! Thanks for checking in!
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:59 AM #6
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I don't want y'all to think it's all doom and gloom. For the most part the plants pull thru and improve in flower but I know my yields would be better if I can keep the nute lock from happening in veg. Here a few plants in the same soil at 4 weeks into flower.
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:12 PM #7
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Ah, I see said the blind man.

You are reusing your mix, this means that things are breaking down. That is good and bad. Good because there are lots of goodies left over, bad because the mix is getting heavier and heavier. When you water exactly as before, you are probably now over watering. All the worm castings and compost, if well made, just plugged the soil even more. And to add the last knife to the heart, you added dolomite. Dolomite is calcium and MAGNESIUM carbonate. Mg can easily go toxic. Never add Mg to a soil, even in mediums or hydro, if you grow correctly, you can use a fraction of that magnesium. And Mg is what gives you the scratchy weed. This is a science pal.

Sodium is building up. Soon as you said you are adding kelp. Dang. Stuff is loaded with sodium.

Get an analysis done, in the meantime gets some Diamond 95 water sol gypsum and water through 5 gr/gal of gyp.

Then start feeding good quantities of K. 2 or 3 gr/gal of KS or KN.

Always pH to 5.9 - 6.0 (except with gyp or any Ca product)
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:38 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by there goes edro View Post
Ever since I started growing in organic amended soil I've been having micronutrient problems of one kind or another. Wrinkling leaves, putting of mid and upper leaves and inveinal chlorosis all over the plant. It's been attempting to throw all this organic shit away and go back to chem fertilizer where I didn't struggle with these problems but my wife and I both agree that we enjoy the finish product better from organic but my yields have declined. I've heard that ph shouldn't be a factor in organics but I have a pen anyways because of these constant headaches! Ph at 6.2. Runoff at 1550 ppm but once again I hear ppm is not really relevant in organic growing but wanted to see what it is.View Image View Image View Image View Image

These are all different plants. First 3 pics are all clones of the same strain. Last pic is a much older plant that I'm begging. Any help would be much appreciated IC!
Two points.

1. The pH is too low for organics.

It should be closer to 7.0, especially at the start of the grow. High pH enables uptake of macro-nutrients, N, P, K and Mg.

The solution is to feed (low concentration) at 8.0 pH a couple of times and go back to 7.0.

2. Check for bugs

Some of the dots look like leafhopper damage. Mites are also dangerous, nearly invisible (and look like small specks of dirt when you do see them), and are so small that they create nutrient deficiency before anything else.
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Old 10-18-2020, 07:22 PM #9
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Originally Posted by TanzanianMagic View Post
Two points.

1. The pH is too low for organics.

It should be closer to 7.0, especially at the start of the grow. High pH enables uptake of macro-nutrients, N, P, K and Mg.

The solution is to feed (low concentration) at 8.0 pH a couple of times and go back to 7.0.

2. Check for bugs

Some of the dots look like leafhopper damage. Mites are also dangerous, nearly invisible (and look like small specks of dirt when you do see them), and are so small that they create nutrient deficiency before anything else.
Organics or not has little to do with pH. If the mix is very loose, you need a lower pH. If it is more of a soil, no problem with a pH of 7.

Moving pH up and down is a good idea and should be practiced most definitely BUT with lots of care. If the soil is a loose mix, that high a pH will lock the most important elements out.

Not that a higher pH doesn't work, lots of things WORK. I am talking about if you want higher oil content and active ingredients where one can get consumer pull from the WOW effect.
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Old 10-26-2020, 11:08 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slownickel View Post
Organics or not has little to do with pH. If the mix is very loose, you need a lower pH. If it is more of a soil, no problem with a pH of 7.

Moving pH up and down is a good idea and should be practiced most definitely BUT with lots of care. If the soil is a loose mix, that high a pH will lock the most important elements out.

Not that a higher pH doesn't work, lots of things WORK. I am talking about if you want higher oil content and active ingredients where one can get consumer pull from the WOW effect.
PH is always important, however it changes with the medium and grow style.

If you have a thriving micro-herd, then the pH should be 7.0, because that is best for bacteria.

Many 'organic' grows are just using heavily chelated liquid organic nutrients, which aren't that different fom synthetic nutrients.

Anyway, early on in the grow you need uptake of NPK and Mg, and that happens at a higher pH. They are also mobile nutrients, so when a mobile nutrient deficiency presents itself, pH is one of the first things to look at.

And you can always lower the pH at the end of the grow for better non-mobile trace element uptake.
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