Glass or no glass? Any side by sides???

Been hearing about growers taking out the glass and cooling the whole room if need be. Does not having glass increase gland production.

All glass reduces UV rays (some say UV = more trichs), does that have anything to with it, or does glass just reduce light output?

i didnt notice any diff in my last run. i did a bare bulb grow and had another grow in same room aircooled. buds were the same to me.

i have a sealed room with a mini split cooling the room UV increases THC-V..the glass on reflectors block out all UV light.. this is what i do day 1-14 of flower i use metal halides ( reason i do this is because the plants are still kinda vegging for the first 10 days or more depending on strain and i feel that it keeps the tops more even) weeks 3-6 i use HPS then the last 2 weeks i switch back to metal halide to increase trich production

i heard u get better lumens obv withouot glass but u get more cooling and u can put them closer to the plants with glass so it depends on ur room and ur environment if u can handle it without glass do it.

to be honest.. if u have everything else dialed in.. then ya it makes a difference.. but if u have nothing dialed in .. then ur stuck were u r !

I think to get to the point of where you need to remove the glass to up your game would take years upon years. If this is the limiting factor of why your quality has been stagnant then you are doing a whole lot right.

medicalmj said:

Been hearing about growers taking out the glass and cooling the whole room if need be. Does not having glass increase gland production.

All glass reduces UV rays (some say UV = more trichs), does that have anything to with it, or does glass just reduce light output?

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Running HPS, there is no issue or difference with regard to UV radiation since mine aren't putting any out.

That said, I prefer no glass for a couple of reasons. Electricity is expensive and my basement room is COLD. Why would I cut off heat that's coming out of the lights I (was) paying to run, to then have to add back heat? I switched to vertizontal parabolics and really, REALLY love those. I can get my room up into nice, tropical temperatures. Only problem is when I walk in my glasses fog up.

Glass does reduce the amount of light getting to the plants, there is no way around that. It can be used to help acclimate plants, though, but I don't see, fiscally speaking, a good reason to use glass in my particular scenario. If I were in an area where keeping things cool were my problem *then* I could understand it.

medicalmj said:

Been hearing about growers taking out the glass and cooling the whole room if need be. Does not having glass increase gland production.

All glass reduces UV rays (some say UV = more trichs), does that have anything to with it, or does glass just reduce light output?

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I've done it, not a good idea in my experience, especially using Metal Halides or Sunpulse lamps, as the glass is what filters much of the UV light. I had pretty severe bolting in the canopy, with a fair amount of bleaching. Topmost buds were burnt looking and crisp, despite canopy temps never exceeding 78F.

Just my experiences man

Oh, and on a side note. There is a lot of talk about ways to increase resin production, and I know, as you mentioned, one of them is through exposure to UV light during the bloom cycle.

I never noticed that, and to be honest I think that while there are many theories out there about ways to force a plant to produce more resin, I've never seen any of them make a significant, even noticeable, difference.

In my experience the best, safest, and most consistent way to get your plants to reach their genetic potential in terms of potency is just to keep them healthy and happy. Personally I don't really believe that some trick or special lighting/fertilizer will make any difference in terms of potency; and my experiences support that conclusion.

Consider the poppy plant, for example. As you may know, the global pharmaceutical industry relies completely on poppy plants as the source of the precursor compound called Thebaine needed to make many of the narcotic analgesic drugs used to treat pain. While the vast majority of these plants are grown outdoors in countries like Turkey, there have been, and still are, many varieties grown indoors in massive multi-level warehouses. Many studies have been done, some of which are available in print if you have access to EbscoHost, to try to increase the "potency" or production within the plant of the desirable alkaloids.

Those studies/experiments concluded that while the variety being cultivated is of the utmost importance, that there is no way to increase alkaloid production outside of growing the plants in stress-free, ideal conditions. While the two plants are very, very different from a botanical perspective, the intentions of the cultivator's are quite similar, and inferring my conclusion from their's doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

Anyways, I just thought I'd share my experience and knowledge with you, as this was a subject I too once had a great amount of interest in. These days I just strive to keep my garden stress free and to keep the variables and conditions I have control over as close to perfect as is within my power.

Good growing

- Et

i think using cold water to flush ur plants has more of an affect on resin production then the glass lol.. flushing with cold water.. makes it seem like winters comin on in with the soil temps getting cold.. which in return makes the plant think its at its last chance to pull in some pollen to keep around for the next years. so in turn shouold get more resin.. u wont be able to tell with the eye.. but i had a friend do cold water flush and warm water flush . and got better lab results with cold water flush . so ive kept to that and no problems.

Glass is also much safer.

Great info! Think I'll pull em out when I need the heat and put em back when I need to air-cool.

I would think that there has to be some sort of advantage in light quality with the glass removed, even if very slight.

I have noticed that the few times I wasn't wearing sunglasses in the room that the unglassed lights seem to really wreck my eyes. Could be all in my head but I'd say it's a good sign.

lee van keef said:

I would think that there has to be some sort of advantage in light quality with the glass removed, even if very slight.

I have noticed that the few times I wasn't wearing sunglasses in the room that the unglassed lights seem to really wreck my eyes. Could be all in my head but I'd say it's a good sign.

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Why would interpret that as a good sign? UV light damages plants, skin, eyes, etc . . . and plants don't really benefit from UV light, it's too high energy too be used for photosynthesis, which is why I say it's not beneficial. One theory behind the potency question was the resin production was a way to protect a plant from UV damage, but that claim has never been confirmed nor verified, and is entirely speculation. Logically it doesn't really add up, as the hottest months of the year, when the sun is most directly overhead and the plant needs UV protection the most is long before flowering, and even longer before resin production. By the time flowering is underway, UV light is markedly reduced from the mid-summer levels.

The primary difference (glass in/glass out) is in the filtration of UV light, hence the feeling it wrecked your eyes. UV light is not a good thing, it causes genetic mutations by exciting the bonds with DNA and allowing some of those weaker bonds to actually break, which is what causes skin cancer in people.

So while a small percentage of light is definitely filtered by the glass, removing it is definitely not a good thing, as I mentioned in my experiments I got a lot of "bolting", burning, bleaching, etc. Resin production was not noticeably different . . .

Just my experience man

lee van keef said:

I have noticed that the few times I wasn't wearing sunglasses in the room that the unglassed lights seem to really wreck my eyes. Could be all in my head but I'd say it's a good sign.

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AND PLEASE, BE REALLY REALLY REALLY CAREFUL EXPOSING YOUR EYES TO UV LIGHT, THAT REALLY WASN'T A GOOD IDEA MAN. DAMAGE DONE BY UV LIGHT IS PERMANANT, NOT TEMPORARY! PLEASE BE SMART, DON'T REMOVE THE GLASS - AND IF YOU DO FOR WHATEVER REASON, PLEASE WEAR SUNGLASSES!

etinarcadiaego said:

Why would interpret that as a good sign? UV light damages plants, skin, eyes, etc . . . and plants don't really benefit from UV light, it's too high energy too be used for photosynthesis, which is why I say it's not beneficial. One theory behind the potency question was the resin production was a way to protect a plant from UV damage, but that claim has never been confirmed nor verified, and is entirely speculation. Logically it doesn't really add up, as the hottest months of the year, when the sun is most directly overhead and the plant needs UV protection the most is long before flowering, and even longer before resin production. By the time flowering is underway, UV light is markedly reduced from the mid-summer levels.

The primary difference (glass in/glass out) is in the filtration of UV light, hence the feeling it wrecked your eyes. UV light is not a good thing, it causes genetic mutations by exciting the bonds with DNA and allowing some of those weaker bonds to actually break, which is what causes skin cancer in people.

So while a small percentage of light is definitely filtered by the glass, removing it is definitely not a good thing, as I mentioned in my experiments I got a lot of "bolting", burning, bleaching, etc. Resin production was not noticeably different . . .

Just my experience man



AND PLEASE, BE REALLY REALLY REALLY CAREFUL EXPOSING YOUR EYES TO UV LIGHT, THAT REALLY WASN'T A GOOD IDEA MAN. DAMAGE DONE BY UV LIGHT IS PERMANANT, NOT TEMPORARY! PLEASE BE SMART, DON'T REMOVE THE GLASS - AND IF YOU DO FOR WHATEVER REASON, PLEASE WEAR SUNGLASSES!

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When I said it's a good sign that was definitely more than a little tongue in cheek, should have maybe thrown a smiley in there I guess. I was kind of referring to the UV-resin link that is still not entirely proven by any means as you mentioned. The plants get hit with UV in nature so replicating that inside would seem like good practice. Although maybe not, it could be detrimental. I like to keep things natural though so I'm leaning towards moderate UV being beneficial.

I run gavita double ended greenhouse style fixtures in my new room. There is no glass to be removed. Also, they are hung high compared to glassed hoods so bleaching and bolting is not an issue.

When I was running the lights in the empty room to dial in climate control I stepped in a few times without eye protection to tweak things. I was running around getting the room ready and my sunglasses weren't within reach so I did the lazy squint thing - which is pointless I know. An empty room with all lights on is ridiculously bright.

Anyways, I'm never without eye protection now. I'm about to order some welding goggle style sunglasses to keep the light from getting in around the edges.

You're right man, UV damage is permanent and the number one cause of macular degeneration. I'm never outside without sunglasses.

I wonder if we'll see a correlation with growers and skin cancer in the future? I am tanner than I would be if I wasn't in the room all day.

lee van keef said:

When I said it's a good sign that was definitely more than a little tongue in cheek, should have maybe thrown a smiley in there I guess. I was kind of referring to the UV-resin link that is still not entirely proven by any means as you mentioned. The plants get hit with UV in nature so replicating that inside would seem like good practice. Although maybe not, it could be detrimental. I like to keep things natural though so I'm leaning towards moderate UV being beneficial.

I run gavita double ended greenhouse style fixtures in my new room. There is no glass to be removed. Also, they are hung high compared to glassed hoods so bleaching and bolting is not an issue.

When I was running the lights in the empty room to dial in climate control I stepped in a few times without eye protection to tweak things. I was running around getting the room ready and my sunglasses weren't within reach so I did the lazy squint thing - which is pointless I know. An empty room with all lights on is ridiculously bright.

Anyways, I'm never without eye protection now. I'm about to order some welding goggle style sunglasses to keep the light from getting in around the edges.

You're right man, UV damage is permanent and the number one cause of macular degeneration. I'm never outside without sunglasses.

I wonder if we'll see a correlation with growers and skin cancer in the future? I am tanner than I would be if I wasn't in the room all day.

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Damnit, you tricked me!

Lol! I should have figured, you really worried me when you said you were in there with sunglasses, no glass, and your eyes felt "wrecked". I was Geezus what is this guy thinking!


You're right man, UV damage is permanent and the number one cause of macular degeneration. I'm never outside without sunglasses.

I wonder if we'll see a correlation with growers and skin cancer in the future? I am tanner than I would be if I wasn't in the room all day.[/quote]

This worries me also, as I've noticed the same thing. Sometimes I put off garden maintenance all week until the weekend, and I'll be in my veg rooms for 12 hours a day on Saturday and Sunday cloning, transplanting, doing general maintenance, and even in the middle of winter I too will get a bit tanner, and it freaks me out, to be honest. A scary thought, to be sure.

Have you seen those sunglasses they've come out with now they they're advertising for in the mags? The method 7 HPS glasses? They're crazy expensive, and there was a time I couldn't stand HPS lights, though these days I only use HPS bulbs for flowering certain strains that don't do as well under Sunpulse lamps . . .

Here's a promotional shot of how the glasses work:



I'm familiar with the gavita fixtures, and have read nothing but good things . . . what wattage are you running?

How is the footprint? How high above your plants do you hang the gavita fixtures? I designed and built all my flowering cabs to perfectly match the size of the reflector, so there weren't any spots that got better or worse light coverage, and in most of them I also use a diffuser to reduce the hot spots right under the bulb, but I've been looking for something else to use in my transitional veg room where I do use one HID light, right now it's a spare 400 watt Lumatek (my last Luma, running Hydrofarm's Phantoms now everywhere else) coupled with a Eye Blue halide. My other room uses the 4' T5 8 bulb fixtures. Anyway, given the size/dimensions of the fixture, how high above the canopy would you hang it to obtain an even 3' x 3' footprint?


One last question, (sorry for all the questions - I just fu#$ing love ICMAG), out of curiosity, what strains are you running right now?

I've been on a seed kick lately, I haven't been running any clones for a while, instead am buying as many seeds as I can looking to build a respectable stable of ladies, some of which I plan to use in a 2014 breeding project, but for the most part am just looking for potent, smelly plants. These days I value smell and flavor as much as, if not more than, potency - just personal preference at the moment I suppose. Any suggestions?

I am running a bunch of strains right now from seeds . . . some stuff from Mosca . . . C99BX & OTIBG, and Rez's Chem IBL, Ghostnugz's Strawberry Diesel, Cannavenure's Jazz Berry Jam, and a cross of Ganja Rebel's Purple Berry Diesel x a Fire OG BX male . . . but with all of those less than 2 weeks from flower, my recently expanded veg room is soon to be empty, except for clones/mothers . . . so I'm wondering if there's anything out there you recommend for a blend of strong smell/taste and potency?

Let me know man!

HPS and halide bulbs are run without glass in warehouses all the time. No drama, no mutant UV babies. But they are 10'-20' over your head and not radiating heat and evil death rays into your brain.

But for UL approval a horticultural, wet environment or close-proximity light system HAS to provide tempered safety glass. In theory a commercial grow might have insurance issues if there is a damaging fire and the lamps were not glass covered. Even if it happened due to flakey wiring, ballast or bulb - not running a system in its "designed configuration" is an easy out for insurance companies. Not to mention what OSHA would say about using non-UL approved lighting in the work space.

etinarcadiaego,

If that pic is real and not photoshopped then I need to get some of those glasses.

-I run the lights at 1000watts. They run noticeably bluer when you kick them up to 1150 for some reason. Gonna do a side by side comparison one day.

-I would say the footprint is ideally 4x5. I hang them 2-3 feet off canopy. My room is 11.5x15.5 with a two foot aisle in the middle. Running six in there but would need 8 to get good overlap. Limited by numbers here so I grow big plants 4-5 per light which works out with the lights spread apart like they are now. There is a huge thread dedicated to gavita 1000s on here with the real technical details if you're interested. Haven't had time to look all of it through.

-"Anyway, given the size/dimensions of the fixture, how high above the canopy would you hang it to obtain an even 3' x 3' footprint?" I assume it would come down to what wattage you run it at. 3x3 would be damn hot at 1000. I haven't run them lower yet.

-"but for the most part am just looking for potent, smelly plants -These days I value smell and flavor as much as, if not more than, potency - just personal preference at the moment I suppose. Any suggestions?" I am no expert nor am I well versed in strains. The only aspect of cannabis I could claim any expertise over would be guerrilla growing in swamps and fine joint rolling. I am very much a novice inside. I am running death star for the first time after smoking it many times. It is a super stanky hard hitting strain.

-"out of curiosity, what strains are you running right now?" grape ape, death star, pre98 bubba, chocolate chunk, rez chem ibl, mosca tsi fly, a lemon bubba cross. I see you're running rez's chem ibl too, what do you think? I pulled 8 fems out of a pack and just threw them in flower.

-so I'm wondering if there's anything out there you recommend for a blend of strong smell/taste and potency? Like I said I'm no walking strain encyclopedia like some folks and I know it's been around forever but I'm excited about the death star. If you can get a cut I would highly recommend it.

Welp, we derailed the fuck out of this thread, sorry op. Here's a choc chunk pic to try and make up for all the text some poor bastards will read without realizing it's OT. It also shows just how high the lights hang.



salud

lee van keef said:

...-"but for the most part am just looking for potent, smelly plants -These days I value smell and flavor as much as, if not more than, potency - just personal preference at the moment I suppose. Any suggestions?"

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I grow mostly blue cheese. The yields aren't great but is very smelly and flavorful, and it's rather potent. Open a jar and the room or whole house is filled with a dank skunkiness. When smoked the blueberry taste comes through. Quite the crowd pleaser.

Well I for one, use supplemental UV-B lights, and I can tell you with my experience with the same strains, same soil, same method, I get more tric production with the UV-B than w/o...also seems to be more terpene production also