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Nutrients for the first time grower

I

iGrow420710

Member
So i have read around alot and found out that i shouldnt go for advanced nutrients..

..From all my research I have come to a conclusion of the following nutes but not sure which to use as a first timer..

Shogun
Advanced Nutrients
Canna
Biobizz
Plant Magic
Earth Juice
Dutch Pro
Hydrotops
Bloom
Mammoth P
House and Gardens

I am going to be growing with the HLG 550 in a 4x4 (1.2mx1.2m) in soil.
 
R

RockinRobot

Active member
I started out using GH 3 part in Lucas formula (micro and bloom at 1:2 ratio). Recently I changed to straight Maxi Bloom dry from GH. Check out the KISS thread here.
 
luposolitario

luposolitario

Senior member
420giveaway
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bio bizz kit is easy to use, buy the small kit ,have grow formula more bloom and stimulant ,
[/FONT]
 
G

ganjygav

Been on the biobizz for 2 years now and I won't use anything else. It gives the best smelling and tasting buds I've grown. I've tried plant magic, plagron and canna. Biobizz is the bees knees.
Its super easy to use and I only buy the 500ml bottles and they will last 2 grows as I only do 4 plants.
 
Bird of Hermes

Bird of Hermes

Member
I use house and garden aquaflakes myself but I just got some maxibloom that I might give a try after reading the kiss thread a month ago. I use flowering additives like sugaree, koolbloom, crystal burst, snow storm ultra, g2 gravity and am thinking about getting some canna boost. Also I add yucca, aloe Vera and coconut water extracts in powdered form but that's cause I'm ocd about my nutes. Never heard of snoops nutes
 
M

moose eater

Early on in my endeavors as a re-beginning grower, with a somewhat more serious mind-set, well over 20 years back now, I used a hodgepodge, sampling this, that, and the other.. Botanicare Pure Blend sufficed for a time, but I later went to my own bat guano teas, if you can get good bat guano. You could also substitute seabird guano.

To that I mixed kelp meal extract (Maxi-Crop 1-.01-3) fairly regularly, and sometimes augmented with mixing some 5-1-1 Alaska Fish Emulsion to the tea, cutting back on guano a bit off and on during veg.

Tried plenty of bottled nutes, too.

Aside from AN being different from the desired array of N-P-K I originally learned to use, I later (additionally) found their stuff to be what I perceived as a line of 'gimmicks'; 15 different jugs, many with redundant contents, often diluted, and often containing simple stuff you could add yourself... and most of their stuff with TOO MUCH K!! ;^>)

Others have had better luck with their stuff, I'm sure, but I think it depends a lot on what you're already putting into your mix, etc. That's especially where their higher K values caused me grief, no doubt.
 
Ibechillin

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Cant go wrong with any of these in my experience:

General Organics Biothrive Grow and Biothrive Bloom
Biobizz Bio-Grow and Bio-Bloom
Roots Organic Buddha Grow and Buddah Bloom
 
Bird of Hermes

Bird of Hermes

Member
moose eater said:
Early on in my endeavors as a re-beginning grower, with a somewhat more serious mind-set, well over 20 years back now, I used a hodgepodge, sampling this, that, and the other.. Botanicare Pure Blend sufficed for a time, but I later went to my own bat guano teas, if you can get good bat guano. You could also substitute seabird guano.

To that I mixed kelp meal extract (Maxi-Crop 1-.01-3) fairly regularly, and sometimes augmented with mixing some 5-1-1 Alaska Fish Emulsion to the tea, cutting back on guano a bit off and on during veg.

Tried plenty of bottled nutes, too.

Aside from AN being different from the desired array of N-P-K I originally learned to use, I later (additionally) found their stuff to be what I perceived as a line of 'gimmicks'; 15 different jugs, many with redundant contents, often diluted, and often containing simple stuff you could add yourself... and most of their stuff with TOO MUCH K!! ;^>)

Others have had better luck with their stuff, I'm sure, but I think it depends a lot on what you're already putting into your mix, etc. That's especially where their higher K values caused me grief, no doubt.
Click to expand...

I've heard the same about AN I tried their 3 part base nutes that are roughly equivalent to the 3 part gh series and it worked out alright. Never tried the full line though never had enough money to.

Forgot to say I use kelp meal extract too in both my foliar and soil drenches. I've heard making the extract yourself from kelp meal directly is the best way to get all the goodies out of it. I follow the directions on buildasoils site where you rehydrate it for a day or so then puree it.
 
Ibechillin

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
moose eater said:
Aside from AN being different from the desired array of N-P-K I originally learned to use, I later (additionally) found their stuff to be what I perceived as a line of 'gimmicks'; 15 different jugs, many with redundant contents, often diluted, and often containing simple stuff you could add yourself... and most of their stuff with TOO MUCH K!! ;^>)

Others have had better luck with their stuff, I'm sure, but I think it depends a lot on what you're already putting into your mix, etc. That's especially where their higher K values caused me grief, no doubt.
Click to expand...

I took over managing a garden last summer for someone i know, They had already bought the big 5?/7?gal jugs full line of Advanced Nutrients connoisseur and been using them. First time he showed me his garden i literally said "What the **** is wrong with all your plants!?", They were the darkest green leaves i had ever seen in my life all clawed and canoeing all over! They didnt know anything was wrong...

He had been following directions from the Advanced Nutrient Call/helpline and they were having him excessively overfeed his plants to the point of severe lockout/toxicity...I flushed all of their plants in veg with PH adjusted water and they came right back out of the stunt they were in.Needless to say he was not happy with me telling him all he needed is the Grow/Bloom A&B and that his problem was from excessive feeding following the Advanced Nutrient Rep's Directions after sinking thousands into the full line...He even called the Rep and told them about the dark green twisting and clawed leaves after i told them and the rep told him "everything is fine continue doing what your doing".

I dont know about anyone else but I had to PH all of the feedwater i would mix up (and i used gallons of the stuff) or i would have problems, PH NOT PERFECT!

Here is a video of the room after I flushed the plants (nutrient rack at 20 seconds):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR9Y9DHe-zI&feature=youtu.be
 
Lester Beans

Lester Beans

Frequent Flyer
Veteran
Botanicare Pure Blend Pro.

Additives...also from Botanicare

Cal/mag
Hydroplex

Other additives..
Protekt dynagrow
Hygrozyme

Good luck with whatever you choose!
 
M

moose eater

I was taught/read to seek a ratio of 1-3-2 in my bloom ferts and soils. AN was the nearly-inverse image or graph of that, with low to moderate N, very low P, and elevated K.

I'd guess you could use a mix/medium that allowed for such a ratio, but I never had it.

There were times a few years back when I would feed at half strength, using (mostly) organic soil, and alternating with Fox Farms and AN. Even a bit over the top, while feeding half-strength, and I ran into trouble.

Just this last winter, someone here helped me to better understand the ramifications of excess K, and the symptoms I was seeing with N, Mag, and calcium issues.

The curling dark green leaves have often, in my experience, been a matter of high N, salts, and/or alkaline ph.

For years I sought a ph of right at 7, then 6.8. Last year I played with going to right at 6, and can't say that helped me.

As I wrote earlier, as a basic wanna-be-organic (?) concentrate, the Pure Blend Pro worked alright, and as Lester mentioned, Cal-Mag, and some other additives help.

When I had issues and was at this site about 10 years ago, someone turned me onto humic acid and Hygrozyme. Can't say definitively that it was the answer, but I don't believe it harmed anything, and I still use them.

But when my water source was right, and the bat shit was right, using kelp meal and kelp extract in my mixes and feedings, with a touch of Super Thrive Vitamin B1, and a little bit of Dyna-Grow Bloom at transplant from veg soil to bloom soil (for the nice array of secondary & micro-nutes), there was a moment in time that all the planets were aligned, and resin flowed on giant colas.

Too many variable changed though to say exactly what was what, and why was why.
 
Bird of Hermes

Bird of Hermes

Member
I remember reading awhile back about AN and some other people promoting the idea that cannabis needed more K then anything else. Bet that caused a lot of people issues like you ran into moose.

Lots of good info on this thread I'm going to have to do some experimenting. Gonna try Lesters recipe, the bio bizz nutes that ganjygav/ibechillin recommended and the guano tea mixes that you use moose. I'm growing in perlite and hydroton hempy buckets so I can do some pretty accurate side by sides knowing that all factors pertaining to their mediums is identical. Might look into the general organics and roots organic stuff that ibechillin was reccomending as well.
 
M

moose eater

As I noted elsewhere in the forums many times, there was a point in time that my water changed (we put in a well) and the guanos changed. Most visible was the near absence of the frothing microbial activity that I had once witnessed in my 5-gallon buckets resulting from the high N bat shit; even without aeration back then.

Can't say -exactly- what the issue was, but both the high N and high P guanos changed back then (DTE brand). And I don't know of anything obvious in the water testing we did back then that would've stood out as responsible for having killed off or curtailed microbial action.

I do know that the proverbial rainbow and pot of gold at the end of it changed a bit back then.. And not for the better. But again, there were too many variables to track easily..

Had plenty of truly good weed come out of my projects since then, but nothing like that time-period, when all was working in cooperation, and the outcomes were OUTSTANDING.. Beyond expectations.

The moment in time I'd return to gladly, for a variety of good reasons.
 
Ibechillin

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Calcium & Silicon are whats lacking in bottled nutrients. If you haven't read the link in my signature about Silicon, you should. Diatomaceous earth is silicon.

General Organics and Biobizz are both vegan (derived from plants only), Roots Organic uses bat guano and worm castings.

moose eater said:
As I noted elsewhere in the forums many times, there was a point in time that my water changed (we put in a well) and the guanos changed. Most visible was the near absence of the frothing microbial activity that I had once witnessed in my 5-gallon buckets resulting from the high N bat shit; even without aeration back then.
Click to expand...

If you add something acidic to something alkaline or vice versa it causes a reaction of bubbles/froth. Could be water PH now is close to the guano PH so no more reaction. Also the switch from tap/city water to well water means no more chlorine/chloramine in your water which would have been killing the micro herd in the guanos causing a fizz/froth reaction.

jidoka said:
Cellulose, hemi cellulose and pectin take Ca to form. B and Si increase the delivery of Ca

If you never get enough Ca you might not know
Click to expand...

jidoka said:
Also how different is the n-p-k-Ca-mg-s on those 3 formulas? If those are close how much difference do you expect a label to make

I started using a tissue lab in CO. They had never measured Ca at 1% or more. Avg K was 7%. The big problem was immediately obvious

The bottle dudes followed each other down a very weird path. And the mix your own guys did not go far off that path...including glow
Click to expand...

Ibechillin said:
Thanks Jidoka.

From blog.nutri tech.com

"American consultant, Gary Zimmer, coined the term “Calcium the trucker of all minerals and boron the steering wheel” and he correctly highlighted the critically important, synergistic relationship between these two minerals. It is a simple fact that you will be disappointed in your lime response if your soils are boron deficient because calcium does not provide its many benefits in the absence of boron. During a recent trip to New Zealand I was speaking with a dairy farmer who had made a considerable investment in lime but had seen very few benefits from the exercise. Upon further investigation I found that his soil tests revealed a massive boron deficiency! In fact, he had just 0.1 ppm of boron in his soils when he required a minimum of 1 ppm. He had created this deficiency through burning out his organic matter reserves with large applications of urea and then leaching boron with centre pivot irrigation. Organic matter is the boron storehouse as it is the only component of the soil that has the positively charged sites to attract and retain this negatively charged trace mineral (anion). As your organic matter declines so does your boron, as it is the most leachable of all trace elements. However this dairy farmer’s boron neglect cost him more than a poor lime response. There was virtually no clover on his entire property because legumes are boron-hungry and will struggle when boron drops to these levels. The lack of clover was also related to urea abuse as legumes never thrive in high N situations. When most people think of legumes they think of nitrogen fixation and the associated reduced requirement for applied N. However, legumes offer more than this. Legumes constantly release organic acids which are invaluable in solubilising locked-up phosphorus (over 70% of applied phosphate becomes insoluble) and they also make calcium more bio-available which is beneficial to both soil organisms and plants. So you get nitrogen, calcium and phosphorus from legumes and you don’t get a good legume to grass ratio without boron. These calcium and legume links should offer enough motivation for you to manage boron nutrition but this highly leachable trace element provides several other benefits."

Source Link:
https://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/the-role-of-boron-much-more-than-a-synergist/
Click to expand...
 
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