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Natural Living Soil and No-Till thread for Beginners

C

CT Guy

V,
We've had no issues with using more glacial rock dust and basalt in re-amending the soil. We've even experimented with high rates (about 6 cycles in). I think the rock dusts break down so slowly that it's not too much of an issue.

An experiment we have going on:
Using the KIS Nutrient pack soil, we've got a 6 beds that are 1 cubic yard of soil and under 2 - 1000W lights. The beds are on their 6th recycle at 2 packs per yard of soil. Using a "recycle mix" that was mostly comprised of rock dust, basalt, kelp, and alfalfa, we averaged just over 3 lbs per bed. Amending with the Nutrient Pack (only 1 bed), it got 3.83 lbs on the last harvest, which has brought us back to using the Nutrient Packs for recycling.

As a side note, they were testing the PPMs of the runoff and found the soil was at 3,000-4,500 ppm at the end of the cycle, and 8,500 after inoculating with the Nutrient packs at the beginning of the cycle. You'd never get away with that using chems.
 
C

CT Guy

Oh and also wanted to mention that I've also used the ratio of 50% peat, 30% aeration (mixture of large and medium pumice in my case), and 15% very high quality compost with good success.

I agree that sourcing a high quality compost is by far the most important aspect when attempting to make a good soil mix.
 
I'm going back to a layer of lava on the bottom,though I've not used this method in a few years,I did like the results I had,you know how it goes,I have to keep messing with the formula.
 

xmobotx

ecks moe baw teeks
ICMag Donor
Veteran
perched water table is a good consideration w/ container gardening

it's less of an issue w/ frequent smaller waterings but a layer of drainage can mediate it as well ~FTMP consensus is that too much drainage {e.g. rocks} is just wasted space in your container
 
C

CT Guy

Where is the missing 5% CT Guy? Or did you mean 20% compost?

Nice catch! Yes, 20% compost. Thanks! I have a study somewhere on my computer on ratios of vermicompost in soil mixes, which found 20% to be the best %.
 

bigshrimp

Active member
Veteran
lol that is what I get.......exactly! ahh excuse me I noticed you grow barley in your fields ahhh you won´t want to get rid of 10 bales would you? Well young feller I don´t have any barley straw but I can give you a truck load of wheat or oat straw. Ok but I don´t see any oats or wheat just barley.......

Looks like I´ll have to take the oat straw. Oh well......

Check craigslist or anywhere they would sell pond supplies, its used to supress algae.

It seems as far as rock dust goes, it would seem like it would be incorporated into the humus crumb as your soil matured. It would be interesting to see the tolerances for soil with and without worms.
 
V

vonforne

V,
We've had no issues with using more glacial rock dust and basalt in re-amending the soil. We've even experimented with high rates (about 6 cycles in). I think the rock dusts break down so slowly that it's not too much of an issue.

An experiment we have going on:
Using the KIS Nutrient pack soil, we've got a 6 beds that are 1 cubic yard of soil and under 2 - 1000W lights. The beds are on their 6th recycle at 2 packs per yard of soil. Using a "recycle mix" that was mostly comprised of rock dust, basalt, kelp, and alfalfa, we averaged just over 3 lbs per bed. Amending with the Nutrient Pack (only 1 bed), it got 3.83 lbs on the last harvest, which has brought us back to using the Nutrient Packs for recycling.

As a side note, they were testing the PPMs of the runoff and found the soil was at 3,000-4,500 ppm at the end of the cycle, and 8,500 after inoculating with the Nutrient packs at the beginning of the cycle. You'd never get away with that using chems.

The soil mix I am currently running is slightly different from the one posted at the beginning of the thread. I went with the 15% aeration that Microbeman uses and stated somewhere he prefers. I trust his judgment on things so I went with it and so far so good. I have noticed that the soil has a more spongy feeling and it works well with Blu-mats.

As far as re-amending with the rock dust and being aware that it takes a very long time to decompose in the soil I did not address that for the sake of confusing any newbees that might read it.

On the subject of re-amending I like to top dress as I said and wait until I think or the plants show me what is needed in the soil. I did the 3 little birds thing for a while and the soil was so rich I could grow in it for 10 years and need nothing. lol

The soil mix that I used is the one from Cootz......which is the simplest and sourcing the ingredients would be easier for the newbs and all. The mix I was using or Gasmans mix is a little more detailed and has more ingredients to source from the beginning.

Give them a good solid base to work with that works and let them build on it themselves as we all have.

V
 
V

vonforne

Check craigslist or anywhere they would sell pond supplies, its used to supress algae.

It seems as far as rock dust goes, it would seem like it would be incorporated into the humus crumb as your soil matured. It would be interesting to see the tolerances for soil with and without worms.

Thanks bs!


I am checking that.......I was looking this weekend and got side tracked with rabbit manure. lol I found organic hormone free rabbit manure! Since I dropped in 20 comfrey starts I want it to have the best I can find and it was local and free.........just bring my own shovel.

V
 
V

vonforne

V,
We've had no issues with using more glacial rock dust and basalt in re-amending the soil. We've even experimented with high rates (about 6 cycles in). I think the rock dusts break down so slowly that it's not too much of an issue.

An experiment we have going on:
Using the KIS Nutrient pack soil, we've got a 6 beds that are 1 cubic yard of soil and under 2 - 1000W lights. The beds are on their 6th recycle at 2 packs per yard of soil. Using a "recycle mix" that was mostly comprised of rock dust, basalt, kelp, and alfalfa, we averaged just over 3 lbs per bed. Amending with the Nutrient Pack (only 1 bed), it got 3.83 lbs on the last harvest, which has brought us back to using the Nutrient Packs for recycling.

As a side note, they were testing the PPMs of the runoff and found the soil was at 3,000-4,500 ppm at the end of the cycle, and 8,500 after inoculating with the Nutrient packs at the beginning of the cycle. You'd never get away with that using chems.


I will have to try that but I am not running the 50 gallon containers atm. Hmmmmmmmm I just do not want to build a soil bed on the second floor. lol Makes me nervous with the weight especially when watering.
 

bigshrimp

Active member
Veteran
Yeah awesome deal on the rabbit poo, have you ever used it straight in a mix or on plants? I've always heard its amazing and does not need to be composted.
 

xmobotx

ecks moe baw teeks
ICMag Donor
Veteran
so it would seem that the "standard" ratio of "1 pt drainage:1 pt humus component:3 pts peat" gets you awful close to inline w/ 20% compost/EWC and 15% drainage {+or- ~20%} =go stingy on the pumice
 
V

vonforne

so it would seem that the "standard" ratio of "1 pt drainage:1 pt humus component:3 pts peat" gets you awful close to inline w/ 20% compost/EWC and 15% drainage {+or- ~20%} =go stingy on the pumice

And it seems to be working very well. So well in fact I am mixing another batch now. This time an enormous one......and it also means I don´t have to crush as much lava rock with that damn cinder block. lol
 
V

vonforne

Yeah awesome deal on the rabbit poo, have you ever used it straight in a mix or on plants? I've always heard its amazing and does not need to be composted.

I have used it but not straight. in 2006-7 I have been feeding wild rabbits in florida and used it in a worm bin and then used it. I am still shakey about using it right out of the chute so to speak. lol This particular batch has been sitting in piles at this womans house.

V
 
C

CT Guy

The soil mix I am currently running is slightly different from the one posted at the beginning of the thread. I went with the 15% aeration that Microbeman uses and stated somewhere he prefers. I trust his judgment on things so I went with it and so far so good. I have noticed that the soil has a more spongy feeling and it works well with Blu-mats.

As far as re-amending with the rock dust and being aware that it takes a very long time to decompose in the soil I did not address that for the sake of confusing any newbees that might read it.

On the subject of re-amending I like to top dress as I said and wait until I think or the plants show me what is needed in the soil. I did the 3 little birds thing for a while and the soil was so rich I could grow in it for 10 years and need nothing. lol

The soil mix that I used is the one from Cootz......which is the simplest and sourcing the ingredients would be easier for the newbs and all. The mix I was using or Gasmans mix is a little more detailed and has more ingredients to source from the beginning.

Give them a good solid base to work with that works and let them build on it themselves as we all have.

V

Valid point, I think simplicity is best when starting out. I think it does take time to get a feel for what the plants need, and I use higher rates than you, but the concept is the same. Good to get the info out to people. I can't believe how many people think they need this or that product from the hydro shop to grow a healthy plant.
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Oh and also wanted to mention that I've also used the ratio of 50% peat, 30% aeration (mixture of large and medium pumice in my case), and 20% very high quality compost with good success.

I agree that sourcing a high quality compost is by far the most important aspect when attempting to make a good soil mix.

my base is very similar, 30% aeration (perlite and calcined/molar clay) 20% compost (ewc and thermal) , 30% peat 20% topsoil

the topsoil i feel makes the mix more water retentive than 50% straight peat - which is useful in my circumstances.

VG
 
V

vonforne

Valid point, I think simplicity is best when starting out. I think it does take time to get a feel for what the plants need, and I use higher rates than you, but the concept is the same. Good to get the info out to people. I can't believe how many people think they need this or that product from the hydro shop to grow a healthy plant.

I have always felt that less is better but also that using a ´lesser´ amount in the nutrient mix gives me room to top dress with different things after the first few cycles. I leave the alfalfa out of the initial mix but top dress with it after the first round of use. Also top dressing with another dynamic accumulator of my choosing. I have recently planted 20 Bocking 14 cultivators and will have them in the line up as well. And as my garden around my house grows so will my chose of what to use. I also like to hike my local area and mushroom hunt and plant my outdoor gardens but always have my eyes open to wild harvest plants to use in my home and indoor gardens. I have recently found Horsetail while doing this and Wild Western Yarrow.

This also leaves the window open for that ´soil building´ that we all strive to perfect in our own way with what we have to use in each individual garden.

V
 

Payaso

Original Editor of ICMagazine
Veteran
WoW! This thread has me feeling all fuzzy... good to see folks sharing info freely :)

I have learned so much here and now it is time to put the theories into practice.

This year's container garden is maxing out in the heat of the dog days of August. So now is a perfect time to dream and scheme how I will keep my garden flourishing through the winter indoors. I plan to make a space in my nice airy, dry garage for the perennials to winter...and worm bins composting again.

One thing I am certain of is that there will be many questions... and I thank you all in advance for your answers!
 

soursmoker

East Coast, All Day!
Veteran
Got a couple questions...

Anyone using the EcoPlus Commercial 1 Air pump, does it get hot to the touch? Is there anything you can do about it?

When making a tea, whether it AACT or just a Nutrient Tea (Neem/Kelp) does anyone ever add Pro-Tekt/AgSil 16H, before or after?

Basically when is the right and wrong times to use Pro-tekt, Aloe, and others... or is it all safe at any time?

Hopefully Tea Brewing section is next!
 
Great info, guys. Keep it coming!

Been doing this reammending/recycling thing for about 4-5 runs now, and it really does get better each round.

Got a couple worm bins cranking out batches of black gold every couple months, and the plants are lovin it. My worms really seem to love dandelions plucked from the "lawn", which I hear are very nutrient rich. This weekend I'm going to see if I can track down some stinging nettle.
 
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