-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Landraces . Will we ever smoke what we once had? If no is there a Way back?
- Thread starter romanoweed
- Start date
romanoweed
Well-known member
thats a theory i have,it is just a idea. I put it into a Illustration.
How Landraces sometimes become Gems, or on the other side why they remain average:
https://imgur.com/a/j4OWC5L
Preview:
How Landraces sometimes become Gems, or on the other side why they remain average:
https://imgur.com/a/j4OWC5L
Preview:
Last edited:
romanoweed
Well-known member
.
Last edited:
romanoweed
Well-known member
.
Last edited:
romanoweed
Well-known member
.
Last edited:
The real problem is the loss of biodiversity in the countries of origin. And not only with Cannabis!
It is really sad to see all those strains lost due the introduction of modern overrated new hybrids, which in fact are, most of them, Skunk x Afghan, or simply a Kush mess.
Of course governments are highly responsible of the lost of many strains. But also narcotraffic cartels and even farmers or other people who introduce fast modern hybrid strains with far inferior psychoactive effects. Also customers because they buy anything and reject nothing. It seems what they love is to get tar into their lungs and the type of high is not so important for them.
Old strains preserved by brave stubborn people are really valuable, but grown in low numbers over decades and many times in indoor enviroments they lost important traits as potency, vigorous growth and health. In many cases as growers usually grow many strains togehter they get contaminated and they still claim it is the real old strain. It happens even with some seedbanks.
Also books since the one written by Ed Rosenthal are highly responsible. Because all the books and growing guides since that one repeat like parrots if you get a sativa you must compulsorilly to mate it with an indica. Also any hybrids made in that way has been welcomed as a wonderful new discovery, when it has been one step more towards the boring mediocrity.
Hype and marketing still claims modern buds reach 35% THC, but they are not more powerful than any old school good weed. Also people tend to reject sativa type buds, simply by their look. They are used to those rounded stinky hybrid buds and they think sativa like buds are grass clippings. But they are losing the most psychedelic ones.
Also a lot of tropical sativas, along a long flowering time, many times it is not so much longer, they have some intersex tendency. Something which it is not fogiven in these days.
CannaZen
Well-known member
@Ahortator I disagree i don't think the trend has been loss of psychoactivity or resin quantity. It is both a combination of modern genetics and growing methods. There is a reason its called oldschool. I feel the same about combustion, much of the flower becomes wasted most of the smoke is comprised of ash.
The plants i grew marketed as traditional landrace hash plants they have a low resin to leaf ratio perfectly useless combusting ground flowers virtual hemp consistency there.
The plants i grew marketed as traditional landrace hash plants they have a low resin to leaf ratio perfectly useless combusting ground flowers virtual hemp consistency there.
Last edited:
Hi CannaZen. I was comparing sativas with modern sativa/indica hybrids. I usually forget not all the weed in the past was sativa 
I have smoked modern strains and an old sativas. I can say modern strains are powerful, that is a fact, no doubt. But the few sativas I got my hands on them have a more pleasant high from my point of view. And that type of high I cannot find it even among the modern strains labeled as "sativa". It is a crazier type of high, more funny, uplifting, electric or psychedelic.
Also most hybrids with indica genetics have tendency to induce tolerance. It is really boring and annoying after a few days smoking buds from the same harvest, suddenly you get no high or a very light one. You think your weed has become ruined by any unknown circunstance. Then you try to somke more amount and it happens the same, you simply waste more weed, but you get no higher.
On the other hand with pure real sativa I always get an enjoyable high. Perhaps it is not so powerful or strong as the first few times when you smoke an indica hybrids. But the high is clearly different it makes you laugh, you feel glad, with a lot of energy and you want to do many things, it is more active and enjoyable. Unlike those couchlocking stinky weed. Also the more you smoke the higher you get. Even you can reach serious mind blowing levels, with a weed at first you could think it was weaker. It lacks that ceiling effect of most hibrids with indica genetics.
The problem is that kind of weed is becoming scarce as fast as lightning due to all growers and farmers, and even smokers, preffer those thick buds which ripe in less than 10 weeks, instead those fluffy ones harvested after +15 weeks or so. Perhaps I could understand it if you grow indoors under lights. But it is a nonsense when you grow outdoors in the mountains in a tropical country as it is happening nowadays.
Greetings.
I have smoked modern strains and an old sativas. I can say modern strains are powerful, that is a fact, no doubt. But the few sativas I got my hands on them have a more pleasant high from my point of view. And that type of high I cannot find it even among the modern strains labeled as "sativa". It is a crazier type of high, more funny, uplifting, electric or psychedelic.
Also most hybrids with indica genetics have tendency to induce tolerance. It is really boring and annoying after a few days smoking buds from the same harvest, suddenly you get no high or a very light one. You think your weed has become ruined by any unknown circunstance. Then you try to somke more amount and it happens the same, you simply waste more weed, but you get no higher.
On the other hand with pure real sativa I always get an enjoyable high. Perhaps it is not so powerful or strong as the first few times when you smoke an indica hybrids. But the high is clearly different it makes you laugh, you feel glad, with a lot of energy and you want to do many things, it is more active and enjoyable. Unlike those couchlocking stinky weed. Also the more you smoke the higher you get. Even you can reach serious mind blowing levels, with a weed at first you could think it was weaker. It lacks that ceiling effect of most hibrids with indica genetics.
The problem is that kind of weed is becoming scarce as fast as lightning due to all growers and farmers, and even smokers, preffer those thick buds which ripe in less than 10 weeks, instead those fluffy ones harvested after +15 weeks or so. Perhaps I could understand it if you grow indoors under lights. But it is a nonsense when you grow outdoors in the mountains in a tropical country as it is happening nowadays.
Greetings.
I have experienced this way too many times in the last 5 years or so. It is usually modern day hybrids that all look great, frosty nugs and good smelling. Gets you high a couple times and by a few days later you're wondering if the weed is broken or something.
The pure sativas, or the closest someone can get to them bring back a touch of the high I've known from my youth. The high is clearer, it is an upbeat and clear headed glow. Sometimes you feel like you're glowing gold or have some kind of happy aura surrounding you. You smile and the world lights up, things aren't foggy and you can think clearly. You can write out a to do list on a pure sativa and then get it done. The sativas give you motivation to get up and go while most of the modern indica leaning hybrids are couchlock/stony territory.
I miss the 6month flowering time and the .2g a watt returns like a hole in the head, but we are in a genetic doldrums situation like in the 90s when the dutch had all the skunk no1 crosses flooding the market. Funny how bagseed is the newnew and equatorial commercial grows with native genes is old hat.
Landrace Highs are the best....long lasting and munchie inducing comas .... most of todays weed that looks like it should rip your lungs apart ... you'll be lucky if the first bowl even gets you High.... 3-4 bowls later that 30 min high from the Purple Ice Cream Cake Gelato Pie Mocha Latte fades away faster than it came on....
Landrace weed does have some annoying flowering times...and Herm tendencies...its not easy work....
Landrace weed does have some annoying flowering times...and Herm tendencies...its not easy work....
Your persian is awesome.
CannaZen
Well-known member
Hi CannaZen. I was comparing sativas with modern sativa/indica hybrids. I usually forget not all the weed in the past was sativa
I have smoked modern strains and an old sativas. I can say modern strains are powerful, that is a fact, no doubt. But the few sativas I got my hands on them have a more pleasant high from my point of view. And that type of high I cannot find it even among the modern strains labeled as "sativa". It is a crazier type of high, more funny, uplifting, electric or psychedelic.
Also most hybrids with indica genetics have tendency to induce tolerance. It is really boring and annoying after a few days smoking buds from the same harvest, suddenly you get no high or a very light one. You think your weed has become ruined by any unknown circunstance. Then you try to somke more amount and it happens the same, you simply waste more weed, but you get no higher.
On the other hand with pure real sativa I always get an enjoyable high. Perhaps it is not so powerful or strong as the first few times when you smoke an indica hybrids. But the high is clearly different it makes you laugh, you feel glad, with a lot of energy and you want to do many things, it is more active and enjoyable. Unlike those couchlocking stinky weed. Also the more you smoke the higher you get. Even you can reach serious mind blowing levels, with a weed at first you could think it was weaker. It lacks that ceiling effect of most hibrids with indica genetics.
The problem is that kind of weed is becoming scarce as fast as lightning due to all growers and farmers, and even smokers, preffer those thick buds which ripe in less than 10 weeks, instead those fluffy ones harvested after +15 weeks or so. Perhaps I could understand it if you grow indoors under lights. But it is a nonsense when you grow outdoors in the mountains in a tropical country as it is happening nowadays.
Greetings.
Well they say there's no accounting for taste. I could capitulate. In the mountains short stalky fat plants outperform skinny plants particularly if they cant finish during the fall harvest window. I can taste skunk in my northern berry concentrate vape i find it unpleasant i don't know some people like that i don't want to feel like a skunk. I think some plants practically taste like panic mania dont know i think it could be epigenetic/plant stress. I think heirloom plants are pretty cool but real oldschool type plants like i grew can have up to only 10% thc. I'm keeping clones for the moment doesn't grow well indoors. Just not very impressed with the flowers. Interesting growth outdoors during the summer. Might save her.
romanoweed
Well-known member
I believe ther is a reason why some Landraces are true Gems, and some not. When you think of it there is something clear: as soon as you outcross to far genetixs, everything makes you paranoid. Even Haze is never soo relaxed and Stressfree like Landraces. There is nearly to no stress. So: first rule dont outcross to far. Then very opposite, when you outcross, there is ever a vigourosity, so clear that i assume outcrossing has to be a Rule to get good Marihuana. Outcrosses in Food-Hybris grow often one third bigger, are a third fater.. So outcrossing has to be good to a certain extinct is to what i come if i combine the first rule with that. So 2nd Rule: outcrossing is good to some extinct. I seew evidence in a particular example. People tell that the breed Vietnam black consists of one cross : North Vietnam x south Vietnam. Now, about this cross and about Vietnam x Thai i heard it gives you an intense hallucinogenic Strain. Sometimes you hear also in the Region Dalat in Vietnam you gain the same hallucinogen stuff, but there is very much less consense about it, meaning multiple times People told ist no Hallucinogen Stuff to be found in Dalat. I just heard the most consistent trip reports about Vietnam black saying it is hallucinogenic and experienced Thai x Vietnam myselve, experiencing the same .
And in Dalat there might also have been an outcross going on at the last step. It may often has happend trough the bound of diffrent valleys , that there is an outcross accuring but in this case it was ever hard to find that Dalat Gem. What i see now is basically just that there has to be a marriage of not so Close genes at the end of a breed. This is the common ground wich i see hapening in North viet. x south viet. aswell as Thai x viet.
Now to the opposite:I actually think purely wild landraces are probly inbreeds. But in a infinitely hard to copy way, but the Basic idea i have is that it is created trough inbreeding. Now the evidence: When People doo inbreading with a modern multiple-race strain for say 7 generations then something strange happens: it gets very unstable, and that looks for me like the apperance of something competly new, something shows up in between of what was before. Just in my Imagination it looks overall like a wild Landrace, they are also completly unrelated tho its Surroundings, completely pure.
So third rule: Landraces are created trough inbreeding, alltho trough veeeery precise inbreding.
So with all 3 theories together i see something that i could call a tree structure, or i call it just to be starting like balls/thinner branches of the tree fusing more ond more into bigger branches until fading to one simple Delta. That Delta is the end-outcross i spoke about before.
Thats just an idea. here again the tree structure:
zoomed Version: https://imgur.com/a/j4OWC5L
preview:
And in Dalat there might also have been an outcross going on at the last step. It may often has happend trough the bound of diffrent valleys , that there is an outcross accuring but in this case it was ever hard to find that Dalat Gem. What i see now is basically just that there has to be a marriage of not so Close genes at the end of a breed. This is the common ground wich i see hapening in North viet. x south viet. aswell as Thai x viet.
Now to the opposite:I actually think purely wild landraces are probly inbreeds. But in a infinitely hard to copy way, but the Basic idea i have is that it is created trough inbreeding. Now the evidence: When People doo inbreading with a modern multiple-race strain for say 7 generations then something strange happens: it gets very unstable, and that looks for me like the apperance of something competly new, something shows up in between of what was before. Just in my Imagination it looks overall like a wild Landrace, they are also completly unrelated tho its Surroundings, completely pure.
So third rule: Landraces are created trough inbreeding, alltho trough veeeery precise inbreding.
So with all 3 theories together i see something that i could call a tree structure, or i call it just to be starting like balls/thinner branches of the tree fusing more ond more into bigger branches until fading to one simple Delta. That Delta is the end-outcross i spoke about before.
Thats just an idea. here again the tree structure:
zoomed Version: https://imgur.com/a/j4OWC5L
preview:
romanoweed
Well-known member
why not, some talk about old genetics:
https://vimeo.com/155684870
https://vimeo.com/155684870
Landraces are wanted by breeders not because they're awesome (they are not), but because they may have individual traits that can be worked into existing lines.
I'd be willing to bet money that there isn't a single pure landrace out there that'd be worth smoking on the regular. Low trichomes, low THC, low terpenes. All of those qualities were developed by modern breeding programs.
Think of tomatoes - There are landrace tomatoes out there, and breeders work with them, but nobody would ever eat one because they totally suck as food.
I'd be willing to bet money that there isn't a single pure landrace out there that'd be worth smoking on the regular. Low trichomes, low THC, low terpenes. All of those qualities were developed by modern breeding programs.
Think of tomatoes - There are landrace tomatoes out there, and breeders work with them, but nobody would ever eat one because they totally suck as food.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
You just never found the one for you.
Go to Roatan and ask a local waiter or beach bum for some "Trash". Smoke a joint then come back and wax on its beauty and how you never wanted to come home.
If it is being cultivated for consumption, it is by definition not a landrace.
Anywhere that is known for cultivated cannabis has already been 'infected' by modern genetics.
DrDee
Member
Hi Beta,
I don't believe your comments are correct...nor your definition of Landrace. What you're suggesting is that the only true landraces are essentially ditch weed untouched by human hands.
So a native farmer who is growing the same strain as his Father and Grandfather did...is not growing a landrace...a strain totally adapted to it's local environment? Marijuana has been cultivated for thousands of years. A strain grown in one valley may be different then one grown a few valleys over...but both are landrace. Mazar, Afghani or Kush are all unique yet grown in the same central Asian region. I would suggest cultivation is a part of that.
JD
You really seem to have absolutely no clue of whatsoever...Flat earther?
