The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

Arnold. · Apr 29, 2018

growingcrazy said:
So here is a basic mix with everything listed in ppm.

This is a 5-1-1 mix of peat, compost, perlite.

I usually get all of my Mg,Fe and Na from the compost.

Here are the amendments in grams per 22.5 LB of dry base mix @ .361gr/CC.

Lime 35% Ca 12gr

Which peat do you use growingcrazy?
This lime number seems very low to me.

Or did you lime your peat beforehand?

I started off with that number, but my pH did almost not move in my mix. Did some reading and seems like a rate of 2-5g of lime/l of substrate is more common. That is around 10 times your number.

This worries me about the differences between our types of peat. It seems like yours has a lot less available EC sites.

I've yet to test what rate works out for my peat. Plus, I should retest my mix in a few days, I understand not all of the reaction has yes taken place.

led05 · Apr 29, 2018

growingcrazy said:
View Image

A bog...I know a guy with one of those things...

Not looking for balance, but a good base. 80% of mixes sold have worse balance than straight leaf mold.

Isn't it the French that are huge leaf mould nuts for horticultural use?

read about Elliott and Paris, I believe they prefer the manures (horse if memory correct) or at least did - pretty cool stuff

there's nothing wrong with a lot of inputs, especially varied ones..... think about the example of kids throwing darts at board to pick stocks vs. a quality HF manager picking them, diversified is diversified, holds true across the board, life, mathematics

led05 · Apr 29, 2018

growingcrazy said:
View Image

A bog...I know a guy with one of those things...

Not looking for balance, but a good base. 80% of mixes sold have worse balance than straight leaf mold.

Isn't it the French that are huge leaf mould nuts for horticultural use?

looks familiar btw - same type of place we live, u get more sun

or

growingcrazy · Apr 30, 2018

Arnold. said:
Which peat do you use growingcrazy?
This lime number seems very low to me.

Or did you lime your peat beforehand?

I started off with that number, but my pH did almost not move in my mix. Did some reading and seems like a rate of 2-5g of lime/l of substrate is more common. That is around 10 times your number.

This worries me about the differences between our types of peat. It seems like yours has a lot less available EC sites.

I've yet to test what rate works out for my peat. Plus, I should retest my mix in a few days, I understand not all of the reaction has yes taken place.

My chicken compost in that base mix brings the medium to 5.9 pH. I didn't post that mix as a recipe to follow. It is an example of what works in my peat and compost combo. My numbers bring me to my target in that mix... Once you have a good base, your input numbers will not be identical to anyone else. Your mix, your balance.

Your testing is what matters in your situation. I would test 50gr (3lbs/yd) , 60gr (3.5 lbs/yd) and 70gr (4lb/yd) to the cuft to start. Break those numbers down to test single gallons.

led05 said:
looks familiar btw - same type of place we live, u get more sun or

Only issue with being near the coast is the winds. Light silty soils erode quickly here without some management.

My computer ended it's life, took all of my files and whatnot with it. Not in the mood to start over again, may not pick up another until fall. Spring is busy season too... You few that can, keep in touch. :tiphat:

Arnold. · Apr 30, 2018

Oh f*ck! That is horrible news.
Are you sure you lost all your files? Most of the time the hard disk is still fine so you can take it out and open those files with another computer. You just need a little adapter for that. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoScdgkOA8E

If it didn't die with a short circuit, water or smoke, there is pretty good hope those files are not gone.

I can help you with the search for the right adapter if you want I know spring is a busy time for farmers.

Hermen_eutics · May 1, 2018

FWIW: Things are going pretty well using mix from this report. I did make a few corrections thanks to observations from you guys on the slow thread. Seems like there is no question that the Ca reported in the test was not available to these plants.

Arnold. · May 8, 2018

So 5g/1l of 36% Ca Maerl brought my mix up to 6.3pH. Since I will be using bonemeal, that will probably suffice. Sample of 5 part Latvian peat + 1 part 2 year old leaf mold of my garden + Maerl is sent. I will share the results.

I was toying a bit with hydrobuddy for the different fertilizer mixes and I'm stuck with a damn high S value.
This is from: K/P/NH4/Ca/Mg SO4

EDIT: I figured it out with chicken manure. I wanted to leave it out because of the smell, but what the hell. I can take it

Problem is that I do not have access to Kmag or calphos. I remember a particular part in the Slownickel thread where it was said that a S excess is nothing too worrying. So you guys think I'm good with this?
If not, any fertilizers I should consider trying to source?

paradoxlost · May 9, 2018

Arnold. said:
So 5g/1l of 36% Ca Maerl brought my mix up to 6.3pH. Since I will be using bonemeal, that will probably suffice. Sample of 5 part Latvian peat + 1 part 2 year old leaf mold of my garden + Maerl is sent. I will share the results.

I was toying a bit with hydrobuddy for the different fertilizer mixes and I'm stuck with a damn high S value.
This is from: K/P/NH4/Ca/Mg SO4

EDIT: I figured it out with chicken manure. I wanted to leave it out because of the smell, but what the hell. I can take it

Problem is that I do not have access to Kmag or calphos. I remember a particular part in the Slownickel thread where it was said that a S excess is nothing too worrying. So you guys think I'm good with this?
If not, any fertilizers I should consider trying to source?

View Image

Excess S is a problem as it will turn into sulfuric acid in bacterial metabolic pathways. Excess SO4 is nothing to worry about cause that will stimulate bacterial activity, it's only affect. Contrary to popular belief sulfate does not create a more acidic soil or solubilize nutrients at a higher rate.

Arnold. · May 9, 2018

Thanks for that quick and clear answer paradoxlost :tiphat:

Can high SO4 easily lead to excess sulfide? For example when using micro-bacterial tea's/inoculants? Or does this reaction not take place in aerobic soil conditions?

bsgospel · May 9, 2018

Just a guess but I think it would figure into the size of your cec, right? The blond peat should be able to cover that, no? I think paradox is right- if you look at the S number alone without considering the other ions, things would be out of hand but in the form that it's used is where it has its place practically.

paradoxlost · May 9, 2018

Arnold. said:
Thanks for that quick and clear answer paradoxlost

Can high SO4 easily lead to excess sulfide? For example when using micro-bacterial tea's/inoculants? Or does this reaction not take place in aerobic soil conditions?

No the sulfate to sulfide reaction is not favorable in aerobic soils. The potential needs to be super negative to create the sulfide, which than turns into hydrogen sulfide. Think rotten egg smells around bogs.

Also I guess I should add that the reaction happens inside bacteria

S + microbes -> H2SO4

Just as mammals don't eat their own shit (except dogs, be suspect) bacteria don't either. So it won't go back to sulfide

VonBudí · May 10, 2018

Arnold. said:
Problem is that I do not have access to Kmag or calphos

not a perfect solution but

calphos = di-calcium-phosphate = vet/equine shop = mentioned in old Slownicky thread, if i remember correctly its rock phosphate thats been treated and it becomes soft rock phos, might be wrong.

kmag = sul po mag, get each separate?
euro memeber sibbeli had some interesting ideas about sourcing silica here , he might have a better idea about eu fert sourcing.

Arnold. · May 13, 2018

Thanks for clearing that up paradoxlost.
Thought so, but had difficulties finding the good terms to google it.

VonBudi, the vetshop tip was indeed a good one, found some, but too expensive for my taste.

Besides, like paradoxlost pointed out, there is no threat in the high SO4 values. So I can mix it up with all the different sulfates on my shelf.

jidoka · May 13, 2018

Sulfate competes with phosphate uptake. You can measure P going down as so4 rises. Don’t go too crazy

Arnold. · May 13, 2018

You think that 100ppm P vs 300ppm S from SO4 is too crazy for a water feed?

jidoka · May 13, 2018

My p:s ratio for water feeds in peat or coco is 3.6. But that is me, who am I to judge right/wrong

paradoxlost · May 13, 2018

Arnold. said:
Thanks for clearing that up paradoxlost.
Thought so, but had difficulties finding the good terms to google it.

VonBudi, the vetshop tip was indeed a good one, found some, but too expensive for my taste.

Besides, like paradoxlost pointed out, there is no threat in the high SO4 values. So I can mix it up with all the different sulfates on my shelf.

No threat to pH

rykus · May 15, 2018

Cool thread! Been trying to run the numbers slowN was talking about inside with coco and peat with great results!

Glad to see you guys carrying on with it here!

Arnold. · May 15, 2018

0.3 is way off 3.6 and I misunderstood paradoxlost so I toyed a bit further.
Decided to give bonemeal a vinegar soak and use it in the feed mix. That brought down the sulfate level and eliminated the need for calphos.
After that especially the magnesium sulfate was driving the high S value. This brought me to ground magnesite as fertilizer. It is MgCO3, but can't seem to find a full analysis for impurities. Anyone with experience/knowledge with this magnesite as Mg fertilizer?
Or other good Mg fertilizers without S?

jidoka · May 15, 2018

https://customhydronutrients.com/ma...1_44_64.html?zenid=bhmqcgjettj2q4k52qajabooj7

But it has more nitrate than mg. No3 is a veg energy in soil vs nh4 which is a flower energy. So there is that

Mg glycinate is an option

But first do you honestly need Mg. Soil and/or compost usually provides plenty

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