Cost effective alternatives to RO systems.

browntrout · Dec 25, 2018

Merry Christmas folks (for those of you that partake)

I am looking for a solution to an issue many growers face. My well water is around 8.8PH, 4-500ppm TDS and is most certainly "hard".

I am looking at cheaper RO systems, however the waste and water output is deplorable.

Normally I offset my water with spring or RO via 20L jugs, however it has gotten tiresome.

Is there budget friendly way of reducing TDS / EC by 70% or more that is more simplistic than RO?

FYI a 5Micron charcoal filter does not change PH/TDS/EC at all.

Emperortaima · Dec 25, 2018

What kinda garden you run is important if you're not strict like I am in organic practice then there could be some sort of cost effective alternative but if you're working with biology then distilled and or reverse osmosis is primo choice for not pissing off the biology and upsetting the balance in the rhizosphere

Merry Xmas to you as well

Blessings
:tiphat:

noreason · Dec 25, 2018

You can maybe search some kind of clarifying agent and use flocculation?

BakedBandit · Dec 25, 2018

If you use multiple ro membranes in series, waste from 1st goes to input of 2nd, you can get much less waste to product ratio. Just need a simple booster pump to achieve proper pressure. It's really not too complicated or expensive.

unnamedmike · Dec 25, 2018

how many liters can you pick up in the spring? My tap water is also very hard and what I do is mix it with rainwater.
The RO filter wastes water, but it is a must in my opinion. To spend less you could mix 75% osmosis, 25% of the key.

:tiphat:

browntrout · Dec 26, 2018

BakedBandit said:
If you use multiple ro membranes in series, waste from 1st goes to input of 2nd, you can get much less waste to product ratio. Just need a simple booster pump to achieve proper pressure. It's really not too complicated or expensive.

Are you suggesting using RO filters only and not the precurser filters and run them in series?

Can you elaborate?

RoyalFlush · Dec 26, 2018

You could add a small water softener before the RO system and replace the flow restrictor with a ball vale to reduce the waste water to 1:1 ratio.

Absolem · Dec 26, 2018

browntrout said:
Are you suggesting using RO filters only and not the precurser filters and run them in series?

Can you elaborate?

BakedBandit is right on.

It's called waste water staging. Here's a video how to set up two membranes on a RO unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE0Dhp5DZv8

f-e · Dec 26, 2018

As it's well water, you may find a 1 micron filter adequate.

The nearer you are to source, the larger the particles. I have seen 25% reduction many miles from source, after pumps and lots of movement though pipes where particles rub against their neighbours and the delivery system. If your pulling water out your own well, you could have huge lumps in it. You have the filter housings already, so trying a 1 micron set is relatively painless. I used a two stage system with some sort of spun plastic as primary and a carbon block secondary

insomniac_AU · Dec 26, 2018

I might be just particularly elevated at the moment but I was thinking, what about a variation on the old solar water purification bush survival trick? You know, a hole in the ground with a sheet of plastic over it?
What if you made a purpose built one on a bigger scale that evaporated tap water instead of foliage? Would that work? Would require no power at all except the sun. Wouldn't have to be a hole in the ground, I was thinking some sort of large container.

Switcher56 · Dec 26, 2018

Solar stills are sloooooooooooooow ...

Andyo · Dec 26, 2018

rain water

rain water

I ran a 3 inch drain pipe from my roof gutter to a 2000 liter
plastic water storage tank,and piped the bottom outlet to my pump then to grow room tap.
I also collect AC condensate

troutman · Dec 26, 2018

browntrout said:
Merry Christmas folks (for those of you that partake)

I am looking for a solution to an issue many growers face. My well water is around 8.8PH, 4-500ppm TDS.

Do you know if it's iron or calcium,etc that is causing this hardness? pH 8.8 is way too high.

Using Phosphoric acid (aka pH down) will correct hard water and lower your pH to to within reason. :tiphat:

Check this:

https://www.maximumyield.com/perfecting-ph/2/1212

The most effective way to soften water via peat is to aerate water for 1-2 weeks in a bucket containing peat moss.

Read this for the natural method quoted above.

https://users.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/chemistry.html

BakedBandit · Dec 26, 2018

RoyalFlush said:
You could add a small water softener before the RO system and replace the flow restrictor with a ball vale to reduce the waste water to 1:1 ratio.

I would not do this. Ro membrane needs a 3 or 4:1 waste to product ratio to work properly. You will ruin the membrane rather quickly this way

BakedBandit · Dec 26, 2018

browntrout said:
Are you suggesting using RO filters only and not the precurser filters and run them in series?

Can you elaborate?

Use normal prefilters, just add a second (or more) membrane in line. Send the waste water from first membrane to input of second membrane. Send me private message if you wanna talk it over.

browntrout · Dec 26, 2018

troutman said:
Do you know if it's iron or calcium,etc that is causing this hardness? pH 8.8 is way too high.

Using Phosphoric acid (aka pH down) will correct hard water and lower your pH to to within reason.

Check this:

https://www.maximumyield.com/perfecting-ph/2/1212

Read this for the natural method quoted above.

https://users.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/chemistry.html

I've never tested the water, I use Pro-Mix HP w/Myco and add in a small amount of Gaia Green Organic all purpose dry additive.

So the peat is there and some buffer from rock dust etc. However I want to know what's going in is accurately PH'd to begin with.

I have always had issues before when running my well water, symptoms usually show mid-late veg and look like cal/mag and ph deficiency (Lock-out).

I was more so wondering if there were legitimate filters/housing combos that would take the "Bite" out of my well water. My issue with waste water is that there is no sewer in the building my tent is in and live in a frozen wasteland 4 months out fo the year.

Looks like an RO system will be in my future, regardless of the 1-2hr fills on 5gal buckets haha.

RoyalFlush · Dec 28, 2018

BakedBandit said:
I would not do this. Ro membrane needs a 3 or 4:1 waste to product ratio to work properly. You will ruin the membrane rather quickly this way

not fully true, I've been running my RO system @ 1:1 over some time now and my membrane is still in excellent condition, then again I do flush my system and also have low ppms in my tap water.

f-e · Dec 31, 2018

I'm not sure a softener reduces PPM's. I tried the top brand table top one, putting the water through dozens of times. It did squat. The water tasted differently though.

There is no filtering. It was called a filter, but it's ion exchange, using salt that gets used up. It's not for drinking, as the product is too salty, and kills plants.

RoyalFlush · Jan 1, 2019

f-e said:
I'm not sure a softener reduces PPM's. I tried the top brand table top one, putting the water through dozens of times. It did squat. The water tasted differently though.

There is no filtering. It was called a filter, but it's ion exchange, using salt that gets used up. It's not for drinking, as the product is too salty, and kills plants.

Yes you are correct, it does not lower the ppm but exchanges all the chemical ions to salt ions which in turn helps the RO membrane in a RO system filter out the water more easier compared to chemical ions.

Here is a video explaining this better

https://youtu.be/rg8URazaZlM

.

Ace Rothstein · Jan 1, 2019

browntrout said:
Merry Christmas folks (for those of you that partake)

I am looking for a solution to an issue many growers face. My well water is around 8.8PH, 4-500ppm TDS and is most certainly "hard".

I am looking at cheaper RO systems, however the waste and water output is deplorable.

Normally I offset my water with spring or RO via 20L jugs, however it has gotten tiresome.

Is there budget friendly way of reducing TDS / EC by 70% or more that is more simplistic than RO?

FYI a 5Micron charcoal filter does not change PH/TDS/EC at all.

There is no cost effective substitute for RO and the waste water can be saved to use outdoors, If you deem the small amount of drain deplorable, I don't share that view. Ebay has some good ones fof cheap.

Cost effective alternatives to RO systems.

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