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Adding Additional Micronutrients To Jacks 321

wineishealth

New member
Aloha from Maui
First time growing, decided to go with Jacks 321 (part 1,2 + Epson) for the low cost.
I have added Silica, Monopotassium Phosphate, Calmag, Great white and Fulic. Are these micronutrients overkill?
My set up is (DIY) 2 hydroponic tubs (4 plants each), airstone and drip system with 2 panels of 3 HLG QB288 @600W each inside a 4x4 tent.
I have made lots of mistakes already; Moved seedlings from Dome to tent too soon, Put lights to close, started drip too soon and now I am worried if adding these micronutrients are an overkill. By the looks I think all or some of the girls will be stunted, hope none turn to males?

I have not done full strength on any of nukes. The first week was 1/4 and now just started my second week at 1/2 strength.

Please advise me on anything that would help me. Thank you in advance

Mahalo
 

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GOT_BUD?

Weed is a gateway to gardening
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Stick with the Jacks alone until you've got a few successful grows under your belt. Then, start experimenting with additives one at a time per grow cycle.

Chances are you will do way more harm than good adding all sorts of crap to your water.

If you're using RO water, add a calmag supplement per the instructions on the bottle. You can add silica if you want, but I would go with half strength for the entire grow. Everything else, don't do it.
 

wineishealth

New member
Stick with the Jacks alone until you've got a few successful grows under your belt. Then, start experimenting with additives one at a time per grow cycle.

Chances are you will do way more harm than good adding all sorts of crap to your water.

If you're using RO water, add a calmag supplement per the instructions on the bottle. You can add silica if you want, but I would go with half strength for the entire grow. Everything else, don't do it.
Thanks, GB
I am not using RO and I don't know the composition of my tap water so I bought a Garden Hose Filter (Removes Chlorine, Chloramines, VOCs, & Pesticides/Herbicides). You also suggest not using beneficial bacteria like great white? My water reservoir is on the warm side 71-75 F (can't afford two chillers right now).
 

GOT_BUD?

Weed is a gateway to gardening
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thanks, GB
I am not using RO and I don't know the composition of my tap water so I bought a Garden Hose Filter (Removes Chlorine, Chloramines, VOCs, & Pesticides/Herbicides). You also suggest not using beneficial bacteria like great white? My water reservoir is on the warm side 71-75 F (can't afford two chillers right now).

I never have. But I'm running a different grow system than you are. All I use today is what I listed above. Also, because you're not running RO water, you might not need the extra calmag. You should really try to get a water analysis if you can't run RO. Then you could adjust your macros and micros more effectively. Because the water where I live is pure crap with a pH of 7.8 and a ppm reading of over 300, I hauled 5 gallon jugs of RO home from the store for my first couple of runs until I could afford a proper RO system.

I also notice that you don't list your pH. Hydro ideally should be in the 5.6 - 5.8 pH range. If you're to high or low, you'll have all sorts of problems. A cheap meter on amazon is $15. Get one as well as the calibration solutions 4.0 and 7.0. I've been using silica as a pH up. It seems to work pretty well. Still haven't found a good pH down solution other than a true pH Down solution.

Usually I don't have to correct too much because of how I mix the solution - CalMag first, stir it up. Then add the dry ferts and epsom salts to the water and let it stir for about an hour. By then, the pH has stabilized and everything has mixed well (It always settles in at pH 4.5). I then test pH to make sure it's at 4.5, and add Silica to raise it to 5.6 - 5.7, usually 3.3 ml/gal. Sometimes I have to add another couple of ml's of silica to get it right where I want it. But for the most part 3.3 is the magic number for my solution.

Is it possible for you to move your reservoir to outside the grow room? That can help with controlling temps.
 

rjrom90

Active member
If I'm understanding correctly you are running 1200 watts of LED in a 4x4 tent? That's a lot of light at 18 hours a day. I would try starting with one light and stick with 1/2 strength unless they still look hungry up it to 2/3. As far as nutrients goes, MKP and calmag won't be necessary with most strains. With Jack's 3-2-1 I also use fulvic, silica and mycorrhizae + trichoderma which compliments the Jack's nicely.
 

wineishealth

New member
I never have. But I'm running a different grow system than you are. All I use today is what I listed above. Also, because you're not running RO water, you might not need the extra calmag. You should really try to get a water analysis if you can't run RO. Then you could adjust your macros and micros more effectively. Because the water where I live is pure crap with a pH of 7.8 and a ppm reading of over 300, I hauled 5 gallon jugs of RO home from the store for my first couple of runs until I could afford a proper RO system.

I also notice that you don't list your pH. Hydro ideally should be in the 5.6 - 5.8 pH range. If you're to high or low, you'll have all sorts of problems. A cheap meter on amazon is $15. Get one as well as the calibration solutions 4.0 and 7.0. I've been using silica as a pH up. It seems to work pretty well. Still haven't found a good pH down solution other than a true pH Down solution.

Usually I don't have to correct too much because of how I mix the solution - CalMag first, stir it up. Then add the dry ferts and epsom salts to the water and let it stir for about an hour. By then, the pH has stabilized and everything has mixed well (It always settles in at pH 4.5). I then test pH to make sure it's at 4.5, and add Silica to raise it to 5.6 - 5.7, usually 3.3 ml/gal. Sometimes I have to add another couple of ml's of silica to get it right where I want it. But for the most part 3.3 is the magic number for my solution.

Is it possible for you to move your reservoir to outside the grow room? That can help with controlling temps.
GB, My water PH is 6.7 and PPM at 170. I have a bluelab meter. After mixing nukes my water is at 6.1-6.4 then I use PH down to 5.6. Thank you for pointing out that some nukes bring PH up and some down.
I use a paint mixer hand-drill rod to mix my nukes, is this wrong, should I be doing like you and waiting one hour?
I cant move water outside that would be a whole new system setup. Thank you again
 

wineishealth

New member
If I'm understanding correctly you are running 1200 watts of LED in a 4x4 tent? That's a lot of light at 18 hours a day. I would try starting with one light and stick with 1/2 strength unless they still look hungry up it to 2/3. As far as nutrients goes, MKP and calmag won't be necessary with most strains. With Jack's 3-2-1 I also use fulvic, silica and mycorrhizae + trichoderma which compliments the Jack's nicely.
rjrom90, I think its 1200W but I am not sure, my Meanwell driver is a 480 Watt. Heat inside is not that bad without fans or outtake fan I think it would be at 85, with all the fans it fluctuates between 71-75. The only time the plants showed heat stress was when I moved them from the dome to the tent and I only give them 14 inches of space, now I have them at 24in above and as far as I can tell they are fine. Is mycorrhizae + trichoderma a brand or the name of the beneficial bacteria? Thank you for the post
 

GOT_BUD?

Weed is a gateway to gardening
ICMag Donor
Veteran
GB, My water PH is 6.7 and PPM at 170. I have a bluelab meter. After mixing nukes my water is at 6.1-6.4 then I use PH down to 5.6. Thank you for pointing out that some nukes bring PH up and some down.
I use a paint mixer hand-drill rod to mix my nukes, is this wrong, should I be doing like you and waiting one hour?
I cant move water outside that would be a whole new system setup. Thank you again

I wont say what you are doing is wrong. I'm just telling you what I do. There are guys who let their nutes stir for 24 -48 hours, and others who mix and go. You need to find what works for you and your plants.

The reason I do my solution the way I do is because I've observed pH fluctuations for about an hour after mixing, then it settles quite nicely and doesn't change from there. Let it brew for an hour, adjust the pH, and feed. Plants seem to love it, so that's what I do.
 

AgriNerd

New member
Stick with the Jacks alone until you've got a few successful grows under your belt. Then, start experimenting with additives one at a time per grow cycle.

Chances are you will do way more harm than good adding all sorts of crap to your water.

If you're using RO water, add a calmag supplement per the instructions on the bottle. You can add silica if you want, but I would go with half strength for the entire grow. Everything else, don't do it.

You don't add "a cal/mag supplement" to Jacks. That is what 2 of the 3 parts of Jacks 321 is. lmao
 

rjrom90

Active member
rjrom90, I think its 1200W but I am not sure, my Meanwell driver is a 480 Watt. Heat inside is not that bad without fans or outtake fan I think it would be at 85, with all the fans it fluctuates between 71-75. The only time the plants showed heat stress was when I moved them from the dome to the tent and I only give them 14 inches of space, now I have them at 24in above and as far as I can tell they are fine. Is mycorrhizae + trichoderma a brand or the name of the beneficial bacteria? Thank you for the post
Yes mycorrhizae and tricoderma is the same stuff in Great White. Those temps may actually be too low to allow adequate transpiration from such a high amount of light. Also with high light intensity the plants will require higher concentrations of nutrients and ideally supplemental CO2.
Here's a good thread which discusses this: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=311713
 

wineishealth

New member
Yes mycorrhizae and tricoderma is the same stuff in Great White. Those temps may actually be too low to allow adequate transpiration from such a high amount of light. Also with high light intensity the plants will require higher concentrations of nutrients and ideally supplemental CO2.
Here's a good thread which discusses this: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=311713

I bought one of those Mushroom CO2 bags, I thought CO2 was for the flowering stage!? Should I use it now?
 

rjrom90

Active member
It would be best to dial in your strains under ambient CO2 levels and standard light intensity. Once you have a good idea of nutrient input and yield, then you can start increasing light intensity and adding CO2, MKP and calmag.
 

GOT_BUD?

Weed is a gateway to gardening
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It would be best to dial in your strains under ambient CO2 levels and standard light intensity. Once you have a good idea of nutrient input and yield, then you can start increasing light intensity and adding CO2, MKP and calmag.

Agreed.

OP, you're trying to run before you've even crawled. Start simple, and experiment slowly as you learn.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people blow thousand of dollars on the latest and greatest only to fall flat on their faces because they didn't understand the basics.

My first plant was phenomenal. I thought I was the shit because I grew it so well and so many people complimented me on it. The next 3 crops were disasters because I was trying too much stuff. I went back to basic and simple, and started having successful crops again.
 

wineishealth

New member
Agreed.

OP, you're trying to run before you've even crawled. Start simple, and experiment slowly as you learn.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people blow thousand of dollars on the latest and greatest only to fall flat on their faces because they didn't understand the basics.

My first plant was phenomenal. I thought I was the shit because I grew it so well and so many people complimented me on it. The next 3 crops were disasters because I was trying too much stuff. I went back to basic and simple, and started having successful crops again.

I thank you both!!!! And I have to admit I've been overly excited and haven't had any patience, wanting immediate results. I will bring it down a notch and stick to the basics. Mahalo
AlohaForLife
 

rjrom90

Active member
I thank you both!!!! And I have to admit I've been overly excited and haven't had any patience, wanting immediate results. I will bring it down a notch and stick to the basics. Mahalo
AlohaForLife
You are very welcome friend. In fact Jack's will produce great results when you do stick to the basics. It takes quite a bit of experience with hydroponics to improve on it, although you are definitely on the right track with the fulvic, silica, and great white. Stay safe out there on the islands with all that lava flowing around!
Which myco / tricho are you using, if you don't mind me asking?
https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/mycorrhizae-and-trichoderma/
 

rjrom90

Active member
Also worth mentioning, someone brought up calmag supplements not being needed with Jack's. This is due to the ability to increase calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate levels independently of the 5-12-26 base mix, although changes shouldn't be necessary unless you are growing OG, Chem or Diesel genetics.
 

wineishealth

New member
You are very welcome friend. In fact Jack's will produce great results when you do stick to the basics. It takes quite a bit of experience with hydroponics to improve on it, although you are definitely on the right track with the fulvic, silica, and great white. Stay safe out there on the islands with all that lava flowing around!

https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/mycorrhizae-and-trichoderma/

Pele is only doing her thing, people living here or not she is alive and well no matter what. Thank you anyways for the kind words and safe wishes.
 

Tex24

New member
Jack's Nute Options..... for new grower.

Jack's Nute Options..... for new grower.

Also worth mentioning, someone brought up calmag supplements not being needed with Jack's. This is due to the ability to increase calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate levels independently of the 5-12-26 base mix, although changes shouldn't be necessary unless you are growing OG, Chem or Diesel genetics.

The 5-12-26 is a Part A dry nute. It is meant to be mixed with Part B which is a Cal/Nit product. They are kept separate for stability and to increase absorbability. Epsom salts (Part 3 of Jack's 1-2-3) is where the Mag comes in.
If you are running Part A only then you will need a Cal/Mag product to supplement. It works fine.
If you are running 3-2-1 then you should NOT use Cal/Mag. You will not kill your girls but you will drive them to nutrient lock out.
Either way works. IMHO - 3-2-1 FTW!
Hope this helps,
TEX
 
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