USA strikes Syria again

gaiusmarius · Dec 28, 2018

SSA (Syrian Arab Army) has never allied with the FSA so called (free Syrian Army) they are on opposite sides from the start to the finish. some FSA groups have reconciled and joined the government side after getting their asses kicked or seeing they were about to get their asses kicked. but the FSA it's self is the only no jihadist group fighting Assad. even the Kurds have never really gone up against the SSA in an official way. but it is damn complicated to keep up thats for sure.

TychoMonolyth · Dec 28, 2018

gaiusmarius said:
wise words, i wouldn't want to live under president Putin, or the Chinese system.

but i wonder if we can't still trade but agree to keep our militaries for self defense only. let the business men trade with each other, but keep the armies bombs and planes at home. but thats cloud cookoo land, the US won't give up it's 800 known military bases in the world, not until the Americans themselves decide to anyway.

Of course we should and could trade. Fuck we should be helping each other build bridges.

Call me a dreamer but... Imagine the possibilities of global trade without war machines? Global economies would bloom into what Walt Disney thought the future would be like. Disease, poverty, crime, illiteracy, for the most part gone in a dozen years. I'm not saying we'd have anti gravity, but hey.. who knows what we could do. We put a man on the moon with a frigging hand held calculator for christ sake. Our economic system would change without it having to totally fail first. Poverty breeds crime, so that would be the worst way to move forward.

We'd have plenty of forward thinkers like Jacques Fresco and the Venus Project,
[iframeb]Yb5ivvcTvRQ[/iframeb]

Universal Economics,
[iframeb]YDOt2AXJ4e0[/iframeb]

and much more.

I'm not saying they're the answers, but we'd have more opportunities to think outside the box. If people are still around in a thousand years, they'll be looking at our economic system and wonder what we were thinking.

St. Phatty · Dec 28, 2018

gaiusmarius said:
wise words, i wouldn't want to live under president Putin, or the Chinese system.

but i wonder if we can't still trade but agree to keep our militaries for self defense only. let the business men trade with each other, but keep the armies bombs and planes at home. but thats cloud cookoo land, the US won't give up it's 800 known military bases in the world, not until the Americans themselves decide to anyway.

The US economy is 100% dependent on those government dollars.

If you look at some of the local economies, e.g. San Diego. Take out military spending, and it would feel like a collapse.

(Also, no more traffic jams ! :woohoo:

)

The US has been making fun of centralized government run economies forever. e.g. the USSR & China.

But now that exactly describes the US.

One thing I wonder is why the US gov. is so allergic to some kinds of public works projects.

The Romans had these things called aqueducts.

Given that the US is big enough to have flood conditions in one state, and drought conditions in another - why doesn't it have a system of Aqueducts so the water can get where it needs to be ?

gaiusmarius · Dec 28, 2018

apparently the SSA move in to Manbij hasn't been corroborated yet. the reports were premature. they are on the outskirts only in a village which is in the path of the Turkish euphrates shield forces. not sure whats up with the Kurds, they need to hurry up and let the SSA in, otherwise it will be too late, Erdogan has been amassing troops on the border for days now. from what i understand, Assad has told his negotiator, there is one condition thats not negotiable, there can not be a separate army on Syrian soil. Kurds will have to integrate their forces with the SSA just like all the other groups did who went for reconciliation and amnesty. not that the Kurds need amnesty, but they need the protection of the sovereign government of Syria. no government would allow a minority to have an independent army in it's borders. autonomy and self administration is one thing but a well equipped and trained army thats not under the central governments command, can't be accepted by any sovereign nation. i'm sure thats what the hick up is

Badfishy1 · Dec 28, 2018

St. Phatty said:
The US economy is 100% dependent on those government dollars.

If you look at some of the local economies, e.g. San Diego. Take out military spending, and it would feel like a collapse.

(Also, no more traffic jams ! )

The US has been making fun of centralized government run economies forever. e.g. the USSR & China.

But now that exactly describes the US.

One thing I wonder is why the US gov. is so allergic to some kinds of public works projects.

The Romans had these things called aqueducts.

Given that the US is big enough to have flood conditions in one state, and drought conditions in another - why doesn't it have a system of Aqueducts so the water can get where it needs to be ?

There is a movie about Enron called something similar to ‘the smartest guys in the room’. Deals with the Enron collapse. One part talks about shutting down electric grid for ‘repairs’ essentially to jack up kw/ hr prices. Not really sure ‘who’ would control the water w your aqua duct system, but I can guarantee the pricing would be manipulated

White Beard · Dec 28, 2018

From my newsfeed:

“NPR” said:
On Friday morning, the official Kurdish YPG twitter account tweeted: "We invite the Syrian government forces to assert control over the areas our forces have withdrawn from, in particular Manbij, and to protect these areas against a Turkish invasion."

gaiusmarius · Dec 28, 2018

White Beard said:
From my newsfeed:

i hope it's right. yahoo had a similar story this am. the on the ground blogs can be the first with news, but they can also be wrong some times. i saw them saying it was settled, then a few hours ago they reported it not being quite settled after all. we have video of the SSA on the outskirts of manbij, but not of them entering the town yet.

just checked and there is a new video headed YPG invites SSA to Mabij. cool.

[YOUTUBEIF]iHeWcSbvSYg[/YOUTUBEIF]

[YOUTUBEIF]rNjv129D_cU[/YOUTUBEIF]

and one more from RT with Jim Chatras

[YOUTUBEIF]nGtaUmToboc[/YOUTUBEIF]

St. Phatty · Dec 28, 2018

Badfishy1 said:
There is a movie about Enron called something similar to ‘the smartest guys in the room’. Deals with the Enron collapse. One part talks about shutting down electric grid for ‘repairs’ essentially to jack up kw/ hr prices. Not really sure ‘who’ would control the water w your aqua duct system, but I can guarantee the pricing would be manipulated

America would have to have a "come to Jesus" moment for it to work.

I'm not sure what public works projects would make a good example.

There are some ferry terminals on Vancouver Island and on the Canada mainland that are really cool. That might be an example of a small public project that worked right.

It seems like the only organizations that get things done in the US are often private corporations.

If Google took it over as a project, it might get done right. Then they just have to get paid.

I'm pretty sure that the cost of not having water for California agriculture - well it's a pretty big number, in the $Billions when they have a drought year.

armedoldhippy · Dec 28, 2018

the middle east (Syria and Afghanistan in particular)is a no-win situation for the US. ISIS creates a hellhole, murdering Christians and Muslims alike. the US, Kurds (as well as others) and Syrians are fighting them. yes, lots of folks want leadership change there. irrelevant to this point. if we DO NOT go in, we are portrayed as abandoning religious minorities to horrible fates, and ignoring our moral responsibility to help the downtrodden. if WE DO go in, we are portrayed as imperialist war-mongering dogs out to steal the land, it's oil, and to ravish small children on the street. so, my opinion in response to both of these positions is - (drum roll please..) - fuck off.
:tiphat:

St. Phatty · Dec 28, 2018

armedoldhippy said:
the middle east (Syria and Afghanistan in particular)is a no-win situation for the US. ISIS creates a hellhole, murdering Christians and Muslims alike.

ISIS is made in the USA, with the assistance of Saudi Arabia & Israel.

ISIS is a Sunni group, their purpose is to kill Shia Muslims - i.e. the enemies of Saudi Arabia & Israel.

armedoldhippy · Dec 29, 2018

St. Phatty said:
ISIS is made in the USA, with the assistance of Saudi Arabia & Israel.

heard that shit for years. have seen no evidence of it anywhere. am willing to be convinced, but it is going to take a lot more than someone claiming it to be so. nope, "but everyone knows..." aint gonna cut it either. only independently verifiable facts. no "alternative" news will be considered as a factual source on it's face. nope, no claiming "mainstream news" is in on it either. mainstream news has uncovered more shit on both the right and left than infowars can dream up bullshit.

Storm Shadow · Dec 29, 2018

Lol Tennesee folks bro... Fox News Country boy

gaiusmarius · Dec 29, 2018

armedoldhippy said:
heard that shit for years. have seen no evidence of it anywhere. am willing to be convinced, but it is going to take a lot more than someone claiming it to be so. nope, "but everyone knows..." aint gonna cut it either. only independently verifiable facts. no "alternative" news will be considered as a factual source on it's face. nope, no claiming "mainstream news" is in on it either. mainstream news has uncovered more shit on both the right and left than infowars can dream up bullshit.

this is a hard proposition to prove from my living room

the inteligence agencies have perfected the use of proxi forces covertly to achieve their aims. they don't exactly post videos online of what they get up to.

but, and it's a BIG BUT, the circumstantial evidence has been mounting and mounting. from unmarked choppers evacuating isis leaders, to air drops mistakenly supplying isis, to the pics of mcCain posing with what looks like Caliph Ibrahim (so called) and other terrorists, to cases of the US acting as isis air force against the Syrian arab army, or the case where US air power destroyed a SSA attack on an isis position near al Tanf, to the fact that Ibrahim Baghdadi was released from a US prison in Iraq after a suspiciously short time considering he'd been part of the sunni uprising, then there is all the oil business at the start and all the money and weapons getting to isis. then there is all the stuff that doesn't come to mind right now, like the US letting thousands and thousands of isis members leave Raqqa just before they took it over. then you have multiple jihadists who admit working with western intelligence agencies to get weapons in on youtube videos. i will look for a nice open source documentary about this for you.

i have a feeling the cia did support isis for a while even while the Pentagon was supposedly fighting them. but i admit, haven't seen anything that would be considered proof, just lots of circumstantial evidence.

Gypsy Nirvana · Dec 29, 2018

I think that it goes back waaay before modern times that Western powers have been supporting arab/middle eastern interests thru a whole bunch of tribal/political groups - just in recent memory you have the Taliban being supported by the West against the USSR - then those trained guerilla troops morphed into Al-Qaeda - Then ISIS - ISIL - DAESH - who seem to all have been backed/supplied/trained by the West and those who ally with the West to try and overthrow Assad in Syria along with a whole host of Islamist splinter groups.

armedoldhippy · Dec 29, 2018

Gypsy Nirvana said:
I think that it goes back waaay before modern times that Western powers have been supporting arab/middle eastern interests thru a whole bunch of tribal/political groups - just in recent memory you have the Taliban being supported by the West against the USSR - then those trained guerilla troops morphed into Al-Qaeda - Then ISIS - ISIL - DAESH - who seem to all have been backed/supplied/trained by the West and those who ally with the West to try and overthrow Assad in Syria along with a whole host of Islamist splinter groups.

the guerilla fighters we trained & armed in Afghanistan became Al Queda/Taliban because we used them as useful tools to bleed the Soviet Union dry. once we did not need them, they were abandoned. the exact same thing is playing out in Syria with the Kurds. SMF pulling the troops out & leaving them to the tender mercies of the noted Turkish liberal bleeding heart Erdogan is actually WORSE than our mistreatment of the mujahadeen in Afghanistan. are there politicians in the US that would play against our own military men for political gain? you'd better believe it. but other than conspiracy theorists babbling, i have seen nor heard of any evidence that we "created" ISIS in any way, shape, or form. there have ALWAYS been what we term "religious extremists" in abundance in the world. these (ISIS) just happen to be more willing to die for their beliefs (or kill for them) than bedrock Southern Baptists for example...

Badfishy1 · Dec 29, 2018

Well ‘conspiracy theory’ is nothing more than a cute term for those that don’t support the bullshit spoon fed to them. MSM has this neat little tactic with ‘conspiracy theories’. Basically they muddy the waters enough that the sheep dismiss it as a conspiracy theory just like your handlers want. Pg8 is prime example. Pg8 is not about a fucking pizza parlor in DC raping and torturing children. Pg8 as a whole is about the worlds elite raping little kids. Are these kids being held in a pizza parlor waiting for elites to come? No probably not. Are the elites fucking little kids? 100. This has been covered by your coveted ‘sources’ for a long time. Franklin scandal dutreaux affair are examples. If those 2 events aren’t ‘recent’ enough, Epstein’s Lolita express, or Dennis Hastert or the whole ‘pound me too’ push should be enough. While on ‘sources’, this brings up another beautiful example of hypocrisy that is so blindly pushed by the sheep. You are willing to take MSM as word of God when a MAJORITY of ‘sources’ used are ‘anonymous CIA/ IC sources’. You have no problem sucking these stories up like daddy O but if it doesn’t fit your narrative it’s just a ‘right wing conspiracy theory’. You will NEVER find a source blatantly saying ‘yes the US created DAESH’ especially from your ONLY acceptable source MSM. Hussein calling ISIS JV then allowing them to expand should be eye opening as a start. Secondly, finding Israeli munitions would be another indicator.
And wew on the southern Baptist/ DAESH comparison! Becareful with that Edge...

gaiusmarius · Dec 29, 2018

armedoldhippy said:
the guerilla fighters we trained & armed in Afghanistan became Al Queda/Taliban because we used them as useful tools to bleed the Soviet Union dry. once we did not need them, they were abandoned. the exact same thing is playing out in Syria with the Kurds. SMF pulling the troops out & leaving them to the tender mercies of the noted Turkish liberal bleeding heart Erdogan is actually WORSE than our mistreatment of the mujahadeen in Afghanistan. are there politicians in the US that would play against our own military men for political gain? you'd better believe it. but other than conspiracy theorists babbling, i have seen nor heard of any evidence that we "created" ISIS in any way, shape, or form. there have ALWAYS been what we term "religious extremists" in abundance in the world. these (ISIS) just happen to be more willing to die for their beliefs (or kill for them) than bedrock Southern Baptists for example...

in the end the whole mess in Iraq and Syria was a direct result of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq. thats what ended up causing isis to be born. Sadam knew how to keep radical islamists in their place. where as the US promoted and used the ethnic differences to help divide and conqour the Iraqis.

as for the Kurds in Syria, they are some 5 to 6% of the Syrian population, they are one of over 20 minorities living in Syria. the US would have had to stay for ever to allow 6% of Syrians to occupy 25% of all Syrian oil and gas resources. it's not a natural state of affairs to have the Kurds dominating all the traditional Arab lands they control now. making the Kurds accept reality and reconcile with the Syrian government is the best and fairest way forward.

you shouldn't compare apples to mellons, the situation in Iraq was very different when Obama left, the Iraqi government was imposed by US military might, it only survived under fortified green zone defended by US mercs.

in Syria the government is strong and has the support of the majority of the population, the SSA has had 8 years of hard core training to keep any new resurgence of isis down and they will keep the Turks out of Syria if the Kurds let them, not the same situation at all. back then in Iraq, the government and army of which,weres totally weak, with the whole army full of paid no show positions, with only half the vehicles working that were being paid to maintain, petrol and weapons sold off etc etc, even top jobs were dependant on bribery and nepotism and or political connections, rather then bravery and skill.

the SSA is a totally different beast from the Iraqi army of back before isis. the SSA have been tested again and again and those still alive and fighting are the survivors of countless battles against insurgents of every stripe all over Syria, they are immensely proud and motivated, moral is high. this is no way comparable to Iraq back when Obama first pulled out.

Hermanthegerman · Dec 29, 2018

armedoldhippy said:
heard that shit for years. have seen no evidence of it anywhere.

So it is! The IS was founded by Sadam Husseins former Bath Party leaders and unemployed Soldiers and Officers of Husseins Army. The great mistake of the Americans was, to dissolve the iraqui Army or kick out their leaders.

armedoldhippy · Dec 29, 2018

Hermanthegerman said:
So it is! The IS was founded by Sadam Husseins former Bath Party leaders and unemployed Soldiers and Officers of Husseins Army. The great mistake of the Americans was, to dissolve the iraqui Army or kick out their leaders.

other than going into Iraq, disbanding their military/police was the biggest mistake by far that the US made over there. made a bad situation into a horrible one. created a power vacuum that was immediately filled by local warlords. i am out of rep, but you deserve some...

log roller · Dec 29, 2018

The invasion of Iraq wasn't a mistake. It was done on purpose. the purpose wasn't to "make things better." It was to gain a strategic foothold in the region, to threaten Iran and also Russia and China; and to advance the cause of capturing all of the world's largest remaining energy resources, particularly the oil found in the Caspian Sea basin. Same reason Afghanistan was invaded. What, you thought that actually had something to do with "terorrists", Muslims with box cutters, etc?

Why do you think we're in Syria also? ISIS was entirely created and funded by Western intelligence agencies, on purpose, just to give us an excuse to invade yet another sovereign nation, for the exact same selfish motives and reasons which led all of the previous wars and invasions, "explained" by thinly transparent fake "reasons" that only ignorant Westerners are actually dumb enough to believe.

USA strikes Syria again

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