10 Common Indicators for Highway Drug Interdiction

randude101 said:

Something I cannot get past is the fact that the use of a k9 is a form of search. Using a dog to determine if you have drugs in your car is a search and should be protected under the 4th amendment.

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I think the reasoning on this is that a K9 sniff is "non-intrusive", thus it does not violate the 4th amendment.

Kind of like how a "Terry Stop" (pat down for weapons) is lawful. It is determined as "non-intrusive" as it's a simple pat down for weapons... not really a "search".

Why a K-9 circle may be determined legal in a court of law?

Because the K-9 does not smell drugs IN the vehicle, he smells them OUTSIDE the vehicle.

That is why Barry Cooper says to hide MMJ inside the INTERIOR of your vehicle. But, if you drag in a smell, that will be lingering near or on the exterior of your vehicle.

Also, Barry would say that if you got to the K-9 in the FIRST PLACE, you fucked up somewhere along the way.

Also, dogs can be trained to false alarm.

Rednick said:

Why a K-9 circle may be determined legal in a court of law?

Because the K-9 does not smell drugs IN the vehicle, he smells them OUTSIDE the vehicle.

That is why Barry Cooper says to hide MMJ inside the INTERIOR of your vehicle. But, if you drag in a smell, that will be lingering near or on the exterior of your vehicle.

Also, Barry would say that if you got to the K-9 in the FIRST PLACE, you fucked up somewhere along the way.

Also, dogs can be trained to false alarm.

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Exactamundo.

iSMOKE.KUSH said:

i don't understand when people refuse consent to a search...

if i were a cop and someone refused to consent to a search...pshhhhh. call the k9 unit because this person def. has something to hide. such a red flag. so suspect.

i'd like to hear your take on it julian. if you are asked to consent to a search...what would you say?

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Most of the time in these types of situations, they're not asking you for a consent solely for the purpose of red-flagging (although it is a part of the reason). If/when you do give consent, you can bet your ass that you will be searched, and unless you went through extraordinary procedures to hide it, it's going to get found. Seems a common misconception is that if you easily give consent to a search and act like you have nothing to hide, the officer will buy the bluff and not go through the trouble of executing the search.

Once you're in this deep, you're pretty much fucked if there really is anything that a K9 can smell, or if the officer's suspicion is strong enough (see Rednick's reference to trained false positive alerts). The "am I under arrest?" won't work, because they will simply tell you that you are being detained for suspicion until the K9 unit arrives. They also have the option of letting you go, but detaining the vehicle if you don't play your cards right.

Kiffen said:

Crime will go down, the GDP will go up.

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A positive trade-off: Grand Daddy Purple displacing crime.

U4EA said:

If/when you do give consent, you can bet your ass that you will be searched, and unless you went through extraordinary procedures to hide it, it's going to get found.

Seems a common misconception is that if you easily give consent to a search and act like you have nothing to hide, the officer will buy the bluff and not go through the trouble of executing the search.

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I would personally disagree, and have had more than a few situations which support that disagreement, but, I think for the average person, this would be correct overall.

In such an expansive topic though, it is hard to make any sort of blanket statements whatsoever, as each situation is very different, and, there could indeed be 100 different reasons why they asked.

Sometimes, it is indeed a question to gauge reaction....(The reaction may very well change their mind either way. They may also just want to take a quick visual for several reasons....ie: To see that the physical aspects correspond with story given. To give a quick glance over certain things which might have peaked their attention, such as a couple larger bags and such. I have run across some who were basically just working for larger loads (500lbs+ green, 25+ keys whitey, etc)....ie: If they can't readily see or identify quickly, they're moving on to the next. (Closer to border).

False positives are undeniably real, but, I think practiced less and less (more by the amateurs than the professionals, as there are literally hundreds if not 1,000 or more tried and true indicators to choose from as far as screening.

Each and every region/department/individual is different...

iSmoke:
What would I say?

I'd say I have several I saved because worthy of framing.......(and many more, but that I didn't feel were "worthy of framing"......)

But that's me....I've spent more time than some of them have been alive pursing things they haven't even learned yet

PDF motion above was granted btw. If he had consented, there would have been nothing he could do.

Why are they asking for consent?, well, if one was to be certain of their reason, that would be one thing, but, I wouldn't think most could be, so....

Bottom line is a refusal will bring the dogs and a more thorough search.

I'll take a human search over a k9 and a thorough search anytime.

(Btw. If there's a hit and they can't find it?. They take it back to the garages and go from there.)

Again....the higher level professional they are I think determines the chances of a false positive. False positives are for losers ....

(Have been many cases documented of positive hits but nothing, which leads to the topic of how much, how long for residual to dissipate....)

Julian said:

I'll take a human search over a k9 and a thorough search anytime.

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exactly..i've only been searched one time *knock on wood* and that was because i had just smoked a blunt and hot boxed the shit out of my car..young and stupid. tossed the blunt out the window an hour before. car was 100% clean..but it smelled bad. no denying it. so i consented and they did their thing.

as for the person that said. "don't consent unless you went through extreme measures of hiding it" LMAO what do you think? of course you go through extreme measures of hiding it. we ain't talking bout 2 joints here. that shit gets stash boxed where a cop would never know it was there unless a k9 hit. so of course i'd rather let the cop search.

just like julian said..last thing you want is a dog. if it hits/false hits and they don't find it..the car is going to the garage and they WILL find it.

be safe guys.

Back to indicators, and "visual corroboration of story" and such.....

Rough examples:

1. Let's say one claims to have been on road for a month, but the interior of the car is impeccably clean?

(Where's clothes, bags?............)

2. The flip side:
You've been on road for a month and the vehicle is packed full...

Why not just in the trunk?.......why in vehicle passenger compartment?

Both above are very real examples.....a further search might just be to see physical pieces of the statements given.....

Maybe the interior is empty because your lying and the trunk is stuffed full?

Maybe the interior is full because the trunk is stuffed full ...

Or, maybe trunk is full of crap like many people's and no room....maybe dirty and don't want to put things back there.....maybe bags in passenger compartment have passenger items that need accessing.....

Out of town on business? (Placing myself 3rd person to illustrate psychology and indicators)

The why no documents?, why no laptop?, why no business wear?

(Example: Your claim is tech professional.....but no laptop......clothes would expect a different range than suit and tie less casual business wear.....)

Being difficult? aggressive? refusal to answer questions and quoting amendment rights?

I thought you were on a relaxing vacation to see family?

(Next series of questions: Trip didn't go well?.....why the bitterness and aggression?....Oh...because you don't like being stopped......well, until that it wasn't a big issue )

The above yet another series of aspects as far as physical and behavioral indicators.....

And while all this going on, are you coughing/covering mouth? (hiding your words), did you scratch your ear (don't want to hear it), are you blinking excessively rubbing forehead? ....

See, what most people miss , the story, any statements at all might not even matter

Body language, eye movement/micro expressions (Used heavily in jury selection(s), speech patterns, content and structure analysis, word selection/phrasing....

I have the feeling few (if any) are well versed on the above.......

Do you know whoever you are speaking to could have earplugs in and not hear a word you are saying and that would tell them what they really want to know?

(Interdiction interviews rely heavily on the above.....as well as physical indicators, but everything can be perfect (Vehicle, story, physical aspects and overview) but if one cannot pass the above?......

All for nothing.....

I'd say anyone in any game should make it a point to familiarize themselves, continue, apply knowingly to day to day behavior, and so on....

I actually started compiling vids regarding the above....and there is no shortage, literally.........10's of thousands on all of the above.....don't even know where to start though, and most, of course, not expansive enough to do topic justice.....

One can search out books by the dozen...one can search out vids by the hundreds.......Most will watch......some will have an interest....and fewer even will absorb....

But then what about tomorrow and next week? .....

How well versed does one think they should be to be able to interact with someone with training and be able to be aware every moment and control reactions?.....

Anyway......such is also a large part of modern Highway Interdiction training....local and state also......but Interdiction units I think more well versed as applying it to virtually every encounter, day after day, while learning more (training is ongoing, not one shot of course.......)

Great informational thread.

Should be stickied IMHO.

Anyone second that motion?

Haven't even begun to scratch the surface yet....

Not to worry, we'll get there...

With the information available so far in this thread, it will definitely help someone that would otherwise not know what to do.

Thanks for your excellent contributions & interesting views, Julian.

Ex Detective on content and structure

Retired FBI polygraph examiner on eyes and body language

Micro expressions

Behavioral, micro expressions and speech patterns

Author of Kinesic Partial LE training session. There is a Part II.

And so on and so on.......100's of thousands of examples of all.....and probably just as many books on the subjects......

Some additional random route notes which just came to mind:

I personally have had several trips (many) where I got "stuck"......for extended periods.......due to weather, or other matters....

Once got stopped westbound and,in short, placed trip at couple/several weeks...(I had planned no more than 10 hours there........)

Okay,so...what?.......I pack it up, hit the road and get stopped 30hrs. later by the same guy?.......and guess what happens then?....

(Some would say:
1. Go through at different time of day/different day.

Okay. great. Who's going to guarantee me that he's not working a different shift....

Ahhhh, here's a fun one:
Who's going to guarantee me that another who heard the call in about it isn't working? (Name(s)/Plate(s)/Vehicle(s), etc....hear the same one a day later, your going to remember it......Me?....I remember that stuff 6 months later......)

Let me also state I despise such in general over all things...(Such trips)....

I've done them because I had to......could they have been pushed off onto someone else?......almost all of the time(s)?, absolutely......and if something would have happened?...then what?....then the fuckin idiot(s) lead them right back to me?, cause they were too fuckin stupid in the first place to make it through?

Oddly enough.....they have all been to keep me safer...(How's that for a laugh.......)

I like growing the best.....there is no more lucrative endeavor along those lines.....lb. for lb....dollar for dollar?.......I would never even hint at anyone doing such.......it's fuckin stupid...

(But, you know...this, and that, and this, and that.......yeah,yeah,yeah....Like I don't know .....)

Fuckin Stupid.

My input is merely to share on what I have always found one of most interesting and truly endless subjects......(the angles ......gotta have my angles .....to survive.........)

I would always suggest people use their bail/attorneys cash for an op instead ....

I never share the spiritual of it also......(If you don't get something deeper out of looking 10-20-40-Life in the face?......well.....I wouldn't know what to even begin to say to such a person.......

Anyway......above having to do also with controlling routes and schedules and even vehicles in some cases.....(But, again, even if different vehicles, that would make it all the worse....ie: a stop in a different vehicle, coming back, shortly after the first after declaring a much wider schedule......you'd be fucked.....that would probably guarantee a false alert even from the pro's (and, they'd be right to do so......)

Just sharing......in no way, shape, or form suggesting anyone should do it...(and if they are, a suggestion to take the latest money and invest in op/larger op and never do it again......)

That's not among the games which last forever.....for anyone.....

(Nothing does to begin with.......)

Another angle most don't think about, so, thought I'd add......(and, even if no stop.......you do same route?, a very good chance might be remembered from passing them just recently......)

(People will say..."Ohhh, yeah....right.....they see 10k cars a shift.....)

Hmmmm.......yeah,okay, sounds good.....

And how many here would recognize if they saw the same car twice in 1-2-3 days? ....(If you say no, well, so much for your counter surveillance skill set(s) .......If you say yes?, well, then that answers the above.......

Good payoff's..........people wouldn't do it otherwise.......

So's green though , with a fraction of the risk and depending on the ground your covering and the hot areas, also a fraction of the penalties....

Will add some good,deeper stuff when get a minute if okay with OP.....their thread.....I'm just contributing because I have something to....

i'd like to talk about vehicles.

it's been said that most drug traffickers like to use older cars to do their thing, and the cops do look for that. but i've seen recently multiple times in the news "two black males in a brand new tahoe."

i feel like i have the perfect car. been using it the last 5-6 times i've crossed the country (cali to ny). i haven't been pulled over once crossing the country. did get home one time. drop everything off. go for a ride to get some food and got pulled over. haha.

don't drive anything flashy. no bright colors. i stay away from white/yellow/red/orange and also black. a darker maroon/blue/green is nice. something common. no custom seafoam paintjobs. ahah.

i get what your saying julian about them remembering you a few days later, but honestly? what kind of car are you driving/what do you look like. take a step back. i can guarentee you atleast 10 cars my same EXACT make/model/color go by any hour. i've actually went out on an abandoned overpass by my house and counted one time (10). that doesn't take into account the cars that are very very very similar to mine. that would pump that number up to 20.

i wouldn't be worried just passing a cop in the same car, but i WOULD very much be worried if i got pulled. would be very scary to go back that way. thank god nothing like that ever happened to me. ;x

When I was about 5 yrs old my mother always told me never tell those bastards anythin..(cops)(RCMP)...They were always hassling my older brother....That was 55 yrs ago...The first time I was picked up by the cops when I was about 15..They started gettin,heavy with me and I just told them..Hey guys my Mother told me to never tell you bastards anything....Actually one of the cops had a chuckle..I,ve lived by this all my life.
I,ve always said I was glad I had the type of mother I had...It saved me from a lot of shit from the pigs.

jarff

iSMOKE.KUSH said:

i don't understand when people refuse consent to a search...

if i were a cop and someone refused to consent to a search...pshhhhh. call the k9 unit because this person def. has something to hide. such a red flag. so suspect.

i'd like to hear your take on it julian. if you are asked to consent to a search...what would you say?

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I've never understood people that cede the notion that I wouldn't mind being searched if I have nothing to hide. Exactly what is in it for me? Having some stranger poking around in my shit does exactly what for me? You won't find me ever consenting to a search, period. I don't care if I just bought the car brand new and am driving it off the dealer's lot, no way does it do anything for me to consent. The fact that I exist proves that your thesis above is incorrect. There are still those of us that value our privacy more than kissing the ass of authority when they seem to think it valid to demand that I prove myself innocent.

BTW, I have refused two requests for consent searches in my life. One cop said, 'oh, ok, you're free to go'. The other berated me for almost half an hour trying to convince me that I owed some duty to prove myself innocent. He did quit about 2 minutes before I would have buckled...too bad. BTW, I had 93 plants in my grow that day, and this was in Virginia so that would have been serious time. When the cop who didn't care that I said no wanted permission I had nothing. Last year when I sold a vehicle I was cleaning under the seats and found almost a 1/4 ounce of some really kind bud. I have no clue where it came from, or how it ended up in my vehicle. That experience just reinforces the need to never consent.

Cop "If you don't have anything to hide, why do you mind if I search?"
Me: "If I don't have anything to hide, why the fuck would you want to look?"

Pythagllio said:

Cop "If you don't have anything to hide, why do you mind if I search?"
Me: "If I don't have anything to hide, why the fuck would you want to look?"

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yeah..because every single cop is just going to trust your word.

like it was said above. if you have your shit stashed right. than a human most likely isn't going to find it without the help of a k9. IF you refuse a search there is a GOOD CHANCE that they will call a k9 it's not a 100%, but a chance i wouldn't be willing to take.

give consent to a cop and he usually will just "poke around your shit" not drop the gas tank down. there is a SMALL CHANCE he will hold you there and still get a k9 and rip your car the fuck apart.

it's an odds game. i'd rather roll the dice on a small chance that the cop would find my stash box in the gas tank/firewall/w.e have you. than on a good chance they will call the k9 in if i refuse. btw..if you do use the gas tank or any other parts of your car for that matter...make sure you don't fuck up and make it look like you recently just altered that part of your car (new screws on old parts etc...). a good cop will see this.

like it was said before. once a k9 hits on your car. it's over. they will take it to the garage and rip it apart until they find what they were looking for.

that doesn't even take into account when the cops make a dog false hit. i've heard stories where the dog didn't hit or anything (was practically sitting there licking it's balls) and they still confiscated the car to get thoroughly searched.

p.s. the fact that you exist doesn't have anything to do with me being wrong. it has more to do with the fact that you got pretty damn lucky and there probably wasn't a k9 on call where you were. if you were stopped by a drug interdiction team you would have been done.
listen to the people in this thread that have been doing cross country for years people...

I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue on whether to consent or not.

One time I was a passenger in a car, parked in a shady neighborhood. The driver of the vehicle had syringes and a bowl in his console. Neither of us were high at all, but our stories did not match up at all. I was honest with the officer, while my friend played stupid about everything, saying he was just giving me a ride and didn't ask questions. The officer asked me if there was anything in the car he should know about. I said "No, I don't know, it's not my car." which he then said "Is it 'No' or 'I don't know?'" and I began getting irritated and said something along the lines of "It's not my car, but to my knowledge there is nothing illegal in the car."

He then went to the driver and asked if he could search the vehicle. The driver responded with "Well do you have a warrant?" and the officer used his walkie talkie to call dispatch and said "They didn't consent and I'm not gonna wait for a warrant or k9, but i have my suspicions", was all pissed, and let us go, but not without telling us there are eyes everywhere.

EDIT: However, if it's on your person, and not in a place they can feel by simply patting you down, I'd consent to a search, but still be quite irritated. I'd then think of the song 'Ridin' Dirty" while I drive away.

I'd also like to mention that a good friend of mine was recently pulled over in a bad area way out of town, was with an african american, profiled, and was pulled over due to "not signaling 200 feet before changing lanes".

They had two big backpacks full of books, and my friend had about a half ounce of weed in his backpack, along with scales.

They immediately put the African American in handcuffs, for no reason. Instantly they were swarmed with backup and a k9 unit. The dog did not smell the weed, my friend said "isn't this discriminatory" and one of the officers agreed and uncuffed the african american. they were let go.

So I guess dogs only smell large amounts?

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