Wrinkled leaves- Mosaic virus? Overfert? Mutation? Sodium ? pH ?

Wow finally a definitive answer

Wow finally a definitive answer

Hey there guys...Stitch whats up? This is a mirror image of what my problem is! Whew. I am wondering if the growers in this thread experiencing this problem are in southern cali? Maybe its a bug going around with cuts/seeds? I have spent hours in the garden and after weeks of stressing...along with the sunburn on my bald head from my HIDs, I think its an infection. I just discovered those freaky looking Thrips. Has anyone ever seen these fuckers under a scope? It started on 1 strain only at first, then spread to a couple others. I think I might have 1 left not showing problems but I am not taking any chances...off with their heads. If it really is an infection from thrips and or virus, then the only solution is to cut my losses and clean clean clean. Then clean some more. Chances are it will show up if I take a chance.

Stitch, I think I PMd you that I thought it was virus or something along those lines when I really started seeing these issues. Mine look exactly the same as oldogs, except mine eventually went necrotic at the tops and fell off.

What a shame, I have spent so much in nutes to have this happen.

I guess I will be ordering NASA gear to use when I enter my grows!

Stitch...pm me if theres anything you want to say...good, bad or indifferent! hehe

By the way, if this is a disease or virus or what not, does anyone know of a lab that is cannabis friendly that could test it to verify...just for my inquisitive mind.

" By the way, if this is a disease or virus or what not, does anyone know of a lab that is cannabis friendly that could test it to verify...just for my inquisitive mind. "

Me too ! I am seeing what looks suspiciously like virus on some
hot peppers in my back yard and if it develops I will send off to some agricultural college or similar and ask for their opinion.
Why dont you try to infect some innocent garden plant
( tomato ?) by putting some pin holes in a few leaves and then gently rubbing an infected crushed leaf on the pin holed leaves. Then you could send the infected ' innocent ' leaves for the virus to be identified.

I am now thinking my vegetable garden was the source of both the virus and the white flies that transmitted them. I'll either have to give up the veggetables or make sure to clean shoes and hands etc. when I come inside.

By the way here's a shot of a beautiful virused bud for your collection Stitch , just before nuking the cupboard with bleach.

oldog, thanks man; send me a pm if I may use this in my 2nd edition book in the future.
Sorry to hear this is what you got dude, it sucks; find out how much it costs to test a plant matter for a certain problem, I would really like to know.
If your outdoor plants got it, it's very common to bring it inside to your garden.... it sucks and I know the cleaning procedure you gotta go through, it's harsh
keep us updated would ya, of your grows in the future. when you start out and how your garden ends up looking.... I am very curious to a few things.....

oldog said:

Three types of plants - and all are affected:
N.lights from seeds, Lemon Kush from seeds & different supplier,
Blueberry/Hawaiian 3rd generation clones.

Worst affected are the younger, the smaller, and the runtish plants.
Least affected are larger ones, with the males ( largest) almost unaffected.

Here are the suggestions from many many sites and posts:

SALT in the Coco- dont think so, Its a good brand that makes
a big issue about having been washed by 3 monsoon rainy seasons.

VIRUS, mosaic, tobacco or cucumber- photos of virus in cannabis that
I have seen have very bright yellow veins and mottled yellowish discoloration
on leaves which I dont have. ( but maybe those photos are not virus !)
Also it is said that virus cannot be transferred from seeds.



MUTATION- from D J Short etc - no, too many varieties affected.

OVER FERT- was running a bit high, but flushed twice 10 days, and again 7
days ago and reduced feed to 400 ppm but young leaves are still wrinkling.

pH- maybe ? I have been using GH test drops - hard to judge the color
accurately but should have been in the 6.0 to 6.5 area.( ordered a digital )

Sodium Benzoate- a preservative- leaching from plastic containers.
Maybe. I'm using a large plastic drum from an ethnic food store for 1st time,
as a reservoir.

Details : All in Coco + 15% perlite, 2 inches hydroton in bottom . Lucas
formula from start, now in 3rd wk of 12/12, under 600w hps. Watered as
indicated by moisture meter- once every day or 2 days.Drain to waste.
Some 'adult' lucas was used on seedlings/clones by mistake for a week.
Reservoir is aerated for 2 hours before feeding.

Thanks for any comments , ideas , or thoughts on this problem.

Click to expand...

Wow. Wow. Ok.

You have a lot of things going on. However, here are the most important ones.

There is nutrient deficiency/lockout in the lower leaves and the top leaves. There is purpling of the stem. And one of the yellowed leaves is showing leaf septemia.

1) Bad air circulation
2) Overheating/bleaching (due to bad air circulation and lamps generating too much heat)
3) Possibly a hot soil mix or overfertilizing (which would in part be because the plant is not taking up nutrients from the soil because of the air circulation and is growing indoors), leading to root damage and nutrient lockout.

So in three words: FRESH air circulation.

Well, I am having an identical issue and my air circulation is adequate, even a plant under T5's, good environment...but I found thrips which ARE vectors. They were all super healthy except for a minor mag def, then like night and day they changed. Shortly after is when I found the thrips. They are more destructive than mites in my opinion. I never lost a plant let alone a whole grow to them.

Somebody did not read the whole thread..........

olddog, did you ever look at your leafs under a microscope?

" olddog, did you ever look at your leafs under a microscope?"

Not a bad idea, but I haven't seen a microscope since botany class about 50 years ago. I'll see if I find one in a Goodwill or S.Army store.

TanzanianMagic- I had excellent circulation, I dont think its heat or lockout. Never got really hot. No purpling of the stems- you are looking at a photo of an example of mosaic virus I found on the net.

mydnytetoker- can you post a photo ?

The consensus now is that this is a virus of some kind. Thanks to
Wandering Roman and others.
Viruses seem to be a new problem in canabis culture. There is not a single mention of the word virus in J. Cervantes's book.

Anyway..... new seedlings are looking good !!

Online is a good place or radio shack, i have a 30x loupe and 60-100x microscope, mostly for trichrome inspection but also to help identify any littlebugs, Shoulnt have to spend over 10 dollars each for one, The ones with leds lights are best, Mine had a indicator bulb that changes color with battery charge, it kinda sucks .

I rarely read 6 pages but like everyone else who has had a plant look like this http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6118/wrinkled.jpg also had some bugs. Idk what kind mine are but they are tiny and i can only see them with a microcope, im thinking some type of onion thrip. But i didnt get the bubbles in the leaf. They just have that same exact look, but with red dots to the naked eye. I had 3 plants die before I figured out to look with a microscope and seen that it was bugs. When I read you thread I thought it was a bug problem tell i read romans post, thats scary makes me think i got a mosaic virus now. But I read that mosiac virus can be spread by seed, but its a rarer thing because the shell had to scratch the embryo.

Its a cal mag deficiency.

It was potassium over fert beginning then I'm you flushed for ten days with plain water I'm guessing hopefully pH corrected so you didn't change the pH too rapidly causing the plant extra stress. The plain water flushed the nutrients out which exacerbated the Ca deficiency and added more deficiencies. It looks like N, and Ca currently but I can't tell anymore because its in such rough shape but those two from the picks I can clearly. The yellowing on the mid section is a N deficiency, the interveinal yellowing on the new growth is the symptom of a micro-nutrient deficiency seeing as you've been using the L. formula I'm guessing that its a Mg deficiency and maybe some zinc too but its too hard to tell with the Ca deficiency. Usually Mg deficiency manifest itself in the inability to produce chlorophyll, yellowing(chlorosis) of the leaf tips(sometimes confused with nute burn), then moves to interveinal on the older leaves, then brown spots(necrosis). Also in regards to overly acidic Ph/Ca, Mg deficiencies, these usually happen late in the season the accumulation of salts from continuously using the same solution, at 5.5 pH. The majority of fertilizers are acidic so when the water evaporates, the unused salts make the medium overly acidic. This is why you either use a full strength solution for 6 days out of a week, then flush with a lower ec with a slightly higher pH solution about 5.8, the 7th day, and test the runoff to control salt accumulation and give you a proper idea of how much and which fertilizer is needed when its needed. The plant should start slowly making a recovery soon. Lower the light intensity for a bit until it's recovered.

Daffy said:

It was potassium over fert beginning then I'm you flushed for ten days with plain water I'm guessing hopefully pH corrected so you didn't change the pH too rapidly causing the plant extra stress. The plain water flushed the nutrients out which exacerbated the Ca deficiency and added more deficiencies. It looks like N, and Ca currently but I can't tell anymore because its in such rough shape but those two from the picks I can clearly. The yellowing on the mid section is a N deficiency, the interveinal yellowing on the new growth is the symptom of a micro-nutrient deficiency seeing as you've been using the L. formula I'm guessing that its a Mg deficiency and maybe some zinc too but its too hard to tell with the Ca deficiency. Usually Mg deficiency manifest itself in the inability to produce chlorophyll, yellowing(chlorosis) of the leaf tips(sometimes confused with nute burn), then moves to interveinal on the older leaves, then brown spots(necrosis). Also in regards to overly acidic Ph/Ca, Mg deficiencies, these usually happen late in the season the accumulation of salts from continuously using the same solution, at 5.5 pH. The majority of fertilizers are acidic so when the water evaporates, the unused salts make the medium overly acidic. This is why you either use a full strength solution for 6 days out of a week, then flush with a lower ec with a slightly higher pH solution about 5.8, the 7th day, and test the runoff to control salt accumulation and give you a proper idea of how much and which fertilizer is needed when its needed. The plant should start slowly making a recovery soon. Lower the light intensity for a bit until it's recovered.

Click to expand...

Ohh Dr Daffy You are my new hero!!


Epic Fail !!



Yep nute deficiencies always jump to other plants and infect them as well!
Even in different mediums,from hydro to Soil and vice versa..
The bugs must be doing it! yano making the other plants sensitive.
Such a valiant effort to appear knowledgeable though!! lol! NOT!!

If you take care of the bug problem wont most of the mosaic virus problem be delt with?

Where is the mosaic thread? I cant find it

Calcium deficiency symptoms appear initially as localised tissue necrosis leading to stunted plant growth, necrotic leaf margins on young leaves or curling of the leaves, and eventual death of terminal buds and root tips. Generally the new growth and rapidly growing tissues of the plant are affected first. The mature leaves are rarely if ever affected because calcium accumualates to high concentrations in older leaves. Straight from wiki, now letting that plant become weak from nute burning and nut deficiences will cause disease, so I never said that there wasn't a disease, I said these are the deficiencies I'm seeing. Here are some links kiddo, look for yourself so next time you can diagnose a calcium deficiency early. The bug problems could be fixed within a week, 1 day air mail nematodes, The virus or other microbial pathogen about 30 mins, get some H202(technical grade is fine, rinse it off with plain water), dilute it to .5% foliar spray. H202 can be used in media-based or water-based growing. I advise getting 35% food grade. It's a centerpiece in sterility. Or go buy a sulphur spray works both on bugs and pathogens because its high acidity. I use diatomaceous earth because it works mechanically to kill bugs by. I don't have these pathogen problems because the acidic medium packed with mycorrizhae and aquashield microbes doesn't allow it. When the medium dominated with beneficial microbes, there's no place for pathogens breed. Take showers, wash your hands, change clothes before you enter the grow room, don't grow weak plants, read a book or two, simple stuff. Plant nutrient guide found here, http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/97_files/nietz18a.jpg

Calcium (Ca)
Calcium plays an important role in maintaining cell integrity and membrane permeability.

Calcium Deficiency:
Young leaves are affected first and become small and distorted or chlorotic with irregular margins, spotting or necrotic areas. Bud development is inhibited, blossom end rot and internal decay may also occur and root may be under developed or die back. Deficiency will cause leaf tip die-back, leaf tip curl and marginal necrosis and chlorosis primarily in younger leaves. Symptoms: young leaves develop chlorosis and distortion such as crinkling, dwarfing, developing a strap-like shape, shoots stop growing and thicken.

Yes a nute deficiency, calcium locked out by excessive potassium will affect the entire herd if you are feeding them all the Lucas formula since that formula is over done easily. Let's stop with the name calling we all have something to add here. I love this community a lot, always have, no need have someone rot it from the inside. Its sometimes hard to be principled and set an example but it's the right thing to do.

Wandering Roman said:

Ohh Dr Daffy You are my new hero!!


Epic Fail !!



Yep nute deficiencies always jump to other plants and infect them as well!
Even in different mediums,from hydro to Soil and vice versa..
The bugs must be doing it! yano making the other plants sensitive.
Such a valiant effort to appear knowledgeable though!! lol! NOT!!

Click to expand...

LOL. that shit is viral.

Me too Harvest- Viral- or outer space dust etc- ie not nutritional/heat/Ph/cultural - This thread is dead- please, anyone, open a new thread when you have something that looks 'viral'. Lets move on . I hate these threads that go on forever. Respect and thanks to all who have posted here.

END

koolaid said:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/french/strawberries/insects/cyclamen-mite.html

Click to expand...

Merci!