WELL, if you email them and ask, it HAS NOT BEEN TRIED AND STUDIED ON TOBACCO, I emailed and asked....
So your Done, Done, Done theory, WHOOT! RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW...
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Can ANYONE name the poison Eagle 20 with the active ingredient Myclobutanil??
- Thread starter EclipseFour20
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WELL, if you email them and ask, it HAS NOT BEEN TRIED AND STUDIED ON TOBACCO, I emailed and asked....
So your Done, Done, Done theory, WHOOT! RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW...
S
SeaMaiden
Is that all there is to getting something approved for use on tobacco, krunch? Or is that all you think there is to it? Did you bother to ask they why it's not approved for use, even on seedlings, let alone field tobacco? They went to the trouble to get it labeled for a whole slew of other horticultural, ornamental and agricultural plants, one more wouldn't have been such a big thing for such a large company.
Have you looked into what *is* used on tobacco, or why it's approved?
Have you looked into what *is* used on tobacco, or why it's approved?
I did ask, my question was "Is Eagle20 safe to use on tobacco"...
From there email..
"It is not labeled for tobacco because Eagle* has not been tested on tobacco. The preharvest interval for apples and grapes is 14 days. The preharvest interval for stone fruits is up to the day of harvest.
I hope this helps!"
This is what is on the label and I posted a picture of. The stone fruits was a day. I could have posted the label for the grapes and apples as well, but I didn't think it was necessary.
well i aint smoking apples and grapes. and if it wasnt tested on smokeables then you cant say its safe. done done done. you can lie to yourself and try an feel better about using shit that hasnt been tested. how do you sleep at night.all your customers are basically lab rats. hope none grow a tail or anything
S
SeaMaiden
Well... not really. All one has to do is look at the label to see tobacco's not on their approved list. What about my other questions?
I still suggest that a far better corollary for the stuff we plan to smoke is stuff that's grown to smoke.
Well, the fact is we can argue over this till time ends and it wont change anyone mind....
Your not going to come up with anything new and either am I...
So, until there is testing for Eagle20 in pot, the people who do use is, hopefully use it minimally, in veg only...
Its been a long time since ive used Eagle, many generation have passed and im more then confident that there is ZERO residual...
REMEMBER, you DON'T use Eagle over and over, ive had the same bottle for many years, gave away more then ive used....
Your not going to come up with anything new and either am I...
So, until there is testing for Eagle20 in pot, the people who do use is, hopefully use it minimally, in veg only...
Its been a long time since ive used Eagle, many generation have passed and im more then confident that there is ZERO residual...
REMEMBER, you DON'T use Eagle over and over, ive had the same bottle for many years, gave away more then ive used....
SEAttown206
Member
Lurking and reading same as vukman a few posts above. Appreciate all of the debate on this, I am on the fence on this topic, and still trying make-up my own mind. Month into my first flowers in a tent, no PM yet (knock on wood) but realize that the stuff is everywhere - just pulled a zucchini plant a few days ago that was COVERED with it, about 30 ft from window I intake my fresh air thru, and pea vines with it as well. So far so good, but figure gonna happen eventually, so trying to decide course-of-action for if/when.
Agree that tobacco is best corollary to cannibis, but do not agree that the fact that Eagle20 isn't approved for tobacco gives us the answer that we seek. There may be reasons why the manufacturer hasn't spent the $$ for all the testing req'd to get it approved for tobacco. Maybe they already sell a different fungicide that is listed for tobacco (not saying they do, just a guess)…
Read on some other site recently about someone having samples tested that showed the presence of a pesticide (do not remember which one) that showed-up in buds from a plant cloned from a mother-plant that had been treated, clone had not. Showed-up on the clone/bud even after all time of veg & flower. Post #77 by Eclipse420 about it being absorbed & redistributed in the leaves of wheat & grape seedlings seems like it may be more relevant to cannibis than the stone-fruits?
Agree that tobacco is best corollary to cannibis, but do not agree that the fact that Eagle20 isn't approved for tobacco gives us the answer that we seek. There may be reasons why the manufacturer hasn't spent the $$ for all the testing req'd to get it approved for tobacco. Maybe they already sell a different fungicide that is listed for tobacco (not saying they do, just a guess)…
Read on some other site recently about someone having samples tested that showed the presence of a pesticide (do not remember which one) that showed-up in buds from a plant cloned from a mother-plant that had been treated, clone had not. Showed-up on the clone/bud even after all time of veg & flower. Post #77 by Eclipse420 about it being absorbed & redistributed in the leaves of wheat & grape seedlings seems like it may be more relevant to cannibis than the stone-fruits?
Let me add a few logs to the fire....
Field experiments were conducted in two different locations to determine the dissipation pattern and residue levels of myclobutanil in tobacco leaves and soil. Myclobutanil 12.5 % microemulsion (ME) formulation was sprayed once at 3.0 mL/ha, and the residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days. The dissipation rate of myclobutanil in soil was lower than that in green tobacco leaves. The residues dissipated above 50 % of the initial deposits 7 days after treatment and dissipated about 90 % after 42 days. The calculated half-life values (T (1/2)) were found to be 4.89-6.77 days in green tobacco leaves and 12.88-19.20 days in soil, respectively. The ultimate residues of myclobutanil in flue-cured tobacco leaves and soil were determined after the third and fourth applications at levels of 2.0 and 3.0 mL/ha. Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg. Meanwhile, the residues detected in soil reached below 0.045 mg/kg 21 days after the last treatment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22415649
And if you spray Eagle20 before flower buds form, the actual buds will have close to zero residue. Although myclobutanil is a systemic, it does not have any significant translocation properties. Meaning once sprayed--the ingredients do not move within the plant (like transferring from leaf to leaf...or leaf to bud)--according to these two studies-
A greenhouse 14C RH-3866 (myclobutanil 14C radiolabelled in the phenyl or triazole ring) study to assess the translocation indicates no significant amount of 14C residues was translocated from the treated leaf to the roots or foliage in grape and apple seedlings. However RH-3866 was easily absorbed from a nutrient solution by the roots and translocated in wheat and grape seedlings.
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2011/sc-hc/H113-27-2010-14-eng.pdf
Over a 12 day period under greenhouse conditions, a constant uptake of myclobutanil from leaflet surfaces into the leaflet tissue was observed. Once in the leaflet, myclobutanil was seen to redistribute throughout the tissue, although no movement out of leaflets occurred owing to a lack of phloem mobility.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18683908
Hope this helps!
Field experiments were conducted in two different locations to determine the dissipation pattern and residue levels of myclobutanil in tobacco leaves and soil. Myclobutanil 12.5 % microemulsion (ME) formulation was sprayed once at 3.0 mL/ha, and the residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days. The dissipation rate of myclobutanil in soil was lower than that in green tobacco leaves. The residues dissipated above 50 % of the initial deposits 7 days after treatment and dissipated about 90 % after 42 days. The calculated half-life values (T (1/2)) were found to be 4.89-6.77 days in green tobacco leaves and 12.88-19.20 days in soil, respectively. The ultimate residues of myclobutanil in flue-cured tobacco leaves and soil were determined after the third and fourth applications at levels of 2.0 and 3.0 mL/ha. Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg. Meanwhile, the residues detected in soil reached below 0.045 mg/kg 21 days after the last treatment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22415649
And if you spray Eagle20 before flower buds form, the actual buds will have close to zero residue. Although myclobutanil is a systemic, it does not have any significant translocation properties. Meaning once sprayed--the ingredients do not move within the plant (like transferring from leaf to leaf...or leaf to bud)--according to these two studies-
A greenhouse 14C RH-3866 (myclobutanil 14C radiolabelled in the phenyl or triazole ring) study to assess the translocation indicates no significant amount of 14C residues was translocated from the treated leaf to the roots or foliage in grape and apple seedlings. However RH-3866 was easily absorbed from a nutrient solution by the roots and translocated in wheat and grape seedlings.
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2011/sc-hc/H113-27-2010-14-eng.pdf
Over a 12 day period under greenhouse conditions, a constant uptake of myclobutanil from leaflet surfaces into the leaflet tissue was observed. Once in the leaflet, myclobutanil was seen to redistribute throughout the tissue, although no movement out of leaflets occurred owing to a lack of phloem mobility.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18683908
Hope this helps!
I think this is some very useful information...
Explains a lot!
And Now the rebuttal from someone who wont read it.......
nice
lots of good back and forth in this thread.
im w krunch, you use it once or twice when your plants are 10% of the size they will b when harvested.
altho i see the point that if its not approved for tobacco its prolly not safe for tobacco. as far as gettin tests for eagle residue safety on ganja.... lets see what it does in tobacco, that should be much easier, right?
seems like IF eagle was safe on tobacco, it would be labeled as such, and IF it was not safe on tobacco, the company would prolly rather say there were no tests than say it unsafe.... does that make sense?
im glad some1 straightened me out on that whole poison / toxin thing also.... now lets see if i can commit the difference to memory.
lots of good back and forth in this thread.
im w krunch, you use it once or twice when your plants are 10% of the size they will b when harvested.
altho i see the point that if its not approved for tobacco its prolly not safe for tobacco. as far as gettin tests for eagle residue safety on ganja.... lets see what it does in tobacco, that should be much easier, right?
seems like IF eagle was safe on tobacco, it would be labeled as such, and IF it was not safe on tobacco, the company would prolly rather say there were no tests than say it unsafe.... does that make sense?
im glad some1 straightened me out on that whole poison / toxin thing also.... now lets see if i can commit the difference to memory.
IMO you cant trust what the company says what they gunna tell you its dangerous and dont use it.They say stone fruit you can spray until day of harvest I sure as hell wouldnt want to eat fruit thats been sprayed with that anytime close to harvest.I mean your spraying petroluem distillates on fruit WTF!
odogyouknow
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by odogyouknow
...I think the real answer would be found in the tobacco industry's stance on the product, I mean, we're incinerating and inhaling this shit!!!!!
Well...interesting conclusion I stumbled on, titled "Dissipation and Residues of Myclobutanil in Tobacco and Soil Under Field Conditions."
"Field experiments were conducted in two different locations to determine the dissipation pattern and residue levels of myclobutanil in tobacco leaves and soil. Myclobutanil 12.5 % microemulsion (ME) formulation was sprayed once at 3.0 mL/ha, and the residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days. The dissipation rate of myclobutanil in soil was lower than that in green tobacco leaves. The residues dissipated above 50 % of the initial deposits 7 days after treatment and dissipated about 90 % after 42 days. The calculated half-life values (T (1/2)) were found to be 4.89-6.77 days in green tobacco leaves and 12.88-19.20 days in soil, respectively. The ultimate residues of myclobutanil in flue-cured tobacco leaves and soil were determined after the third and fourth applications at levels of 2.0 and 3.0 mL/ha. Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg. Meanwhile, the residues detected in soil reached below 0.045 mg/kg 21 days after the last treatment."
IT'S NOT LIKE THIS SAME STUDY HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BY THE SAME PERSON, THEN ARGUED ABOUT BY THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE THREE MONTHS AGO OR ANYTHING.............
BOTTOM LINE IS THERE WILL BE A TINY AMOUNT OF RESIDUAL MYCLOBUTANIL IN FINISHED PRODUCT IF YOU USE IT AS RECOMMENDED, THIS STUDY PROVES IT.
HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT IS THE QUESTION
Originally Posted by odogyouknow
...I think the real answer would be found in the tobacco industry's stance on the product, I mean, we're incinerating and inhaling this shit!!!!!
Well...interesting conclusion I stumbled on, titled "Dissipation and Residues of Myclobutanil in Tobacco and Soil Under Field Conditions."
"Field experiments were conducted in two different locations to determine the dissipation pattern and residue levels of myclobutanil in tobacco leaves and soil. Myclobutanil 12.5 % microemulsion (ME) formulation was sprayed once at 3.0 mL/ha, and the residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days. The dissipation rate of myclobutanil in soil was lower than that in green tobacco leaves. The residues dissipated above 50 % of the initial deposits 7 days after treatment and dissipated about 90 % after 42 days. The calculated half-life values (T (1/2)) were found to be 4.89-6.77 days in green tobacco leaves and 12.88-19.20 days in soil, respectively. The ultimate residues of myclobutanil in flue-cured tobacco leaves and soil were determined after the third and fourth applications at levels of 2.0 and 3.0 mL/ha. Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg. Meanwhile, the residues detected in soil reached below 0.045 mg/kg 21 days after the last treatment."
IT'S NOT LIKE THIS SAME STUDY HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BY THE SAME PERSON, THEN ARGUED ABOUT BY THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE THREE MONTHS AGO OR ANYTHING.............
BOTTOM LINE IS THERE WILL BE A TINY AMOUNT OF RESIDUAL MYCLOBUTANIL IN FINISHED PRODUCT IF YOU USE IT AS RECOMMENDED, THIS STUDY PROVES IT.
HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT IS THE QUESTION
odogyouknow
Member
the above quote was from another E20 thread from june
odogyouknow
Member
E420 had the best advice about looking at the half-lives of the chemicals you're worried
about, in this case myclobutanil....
The problem is, half lives generally mean something never really fully goes away....
In this case, myclobutanil does end up dissipating rather quickly but there is residual mb in kilos of dried tobacco after being flu dried as the study states.
I probably do more damage to my body with tons of cleaning chems at work and all the other shit in our lives, I just don't really feel like smoking some shit I don't understand how it is borderline o.k. for me... I hate how the simple weed gets complicated by this shit.
about, in this case myclobutanil....
The problem is, half lives generally mean something never really fully goes away....
In this case, myclobutanil does end up dissipating rather quickly but there is residual mb in kilos of dried tobacco after being flu dried as the study states.
I probably do more damage to my body with tons of cleaning chems at work and all the other shit in our lives, I just don't really feel like smoking some shit I don't understand how it is borderline o.k. for me... I hate how the simple weed gets complicated by this shit.
I assume they sprayed the tobacco leaves in question. What about spraying in veg? The leaces sprayed will not be smoked. They'll be discarded sun leaves at harvest. And since it's not systemic the question becomes:
How can there be any residual in the bud you smoke? (assuming you don't spray in flower)
Last edited:
Give this guy a cigar! He too figured out the secret!
DO NOT SPRAY WHAT YOU SMOKE. Real simple!
odogyouknow
Member
COME ON E420!!!!!!!! you have a great disposition in dealing with this argument respectfully and intelligently and I have taken your points more seriously than anyone and then you go and quote the guy who's thinking/posting..."ITS NOT SYSTEMIC SO........." SERIOUSLY????????
This is the whole argument over the multiple threads over months if not years!!!!
IT'S ACTIVE INGREDIENT AND OTHERWISE IS SYSTEMIC!!!!!
This "medical grower" just proved a valuable point that as a result of the promotion of this product by fucking donkeys around here amongst other sites (just google the shit and most of the sites that come up are weed sites) people just have no idea what the fuck they're doing.
Of course earlier I said uninformed folks desperately trying to control PM are probably finding these topics via internet search way late and treating with this stuff MIGHT use some stoner logic and go a bit over recommended dose @ 1 ml/gallon..(yea right, unless you have an eye dropper you're going over).... Yet was met with the all too familiar sarcastic, Yea we all can't use this stuff and we don't know how to use it etc.
This is the whole argument over the multiple threads over months if not years!!!!
IT'S ACTIVE INGREDIENT AND OTHERWISE IS SYSTEMIC!!!!!
This "medical grower" just proved a valuable point that as a result of the promotion of this product by fucking donkeys around here amongst other sites (just google the shit and most of the sites that come up are weed sites) people just have no idea what the fuck they're doing.
Of course earlier I said uninformed folks desperately trying to control PM are probably finding these topics via internet search way late and treating with this stuff MIGHT use some stoner logic and go a bit over recommended dose @ 1 ml/gallon..(yea right, unless you have an eye dropper you're going over).... Yet was met with the all too familiar sarcastic, Yea we all can't use this stuff and we don't know how to use it etc.
I use a Eye dropper.
On page 31 it says that for the apricots use 2-3 oz per 100 gallons. That is 60-90 ml. When I use it, I use this application rate. I figure for 75 ml per hundred gallon. That is 0.75 ml per gallon. Since it is very thick I use the 15 drops per ml ratio. So that works out to about 11 drops per gallon.
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