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Trump cancels summit with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un

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Gypsy Nirvana

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Just a couple of brats throwing their toys out of the pram in the hope of getting new bigger toys to throw out of the pram later on.....
 
R

Rubber Chicken

Confucius say- Above ALL else, Trump ego #1.... everything else small potatoes. :bigeye:
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
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I could care less, if Kim don't give up the nukes there should be no deal whatsoever. We can't just let a Communist dictator threaten us with nuclear weapons and still kiss his ass. Fuck Kim and everyone willingly following him.

I personally think the good North Korean people deserve a chance at freedom by any means necessary. Another war? Fine, be about the first I've been all for. Guy threatened to nuke our homeland and we're supposed to allow him to keep nuclear weapons and kiss his ass too? Fuck no!!

Only thing that should have been done differently is Obama should have fucked them up while building nukes, but nuclear weapons should not be treated with weakness or anyone can build a nuclear arsenal and dictate the world.


War with North Korea is war with China.

Surely even American ego would accept that is a situation to be avoided. It would make the last two global conflicts look like nerds slap fighting




There is nothing North Korea does without the direction or consent of China. They prop up their economy, feed their people and share idealogy.

Their goal is to push the inevitable conflict back twenty years, when the gamble will be hedged in their favour.

If you look at the root cause of many large scale conflicts, it is a growing power attacking the old guard for dominance. The Chinese are patient and will have learned from the German's and Japanese the risk of playing your hand too soon.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

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Yes....the Chinese are not to be taken lightly. They have suffered much in the past from imperialist oppression .....

They have the intelligence and foresight to play the west at its own capitalist game, and it looks like economically they are exceeding most expectations.


War with North Korea is war with China.

Surely even American ego would accept that is a situation to be avoided. It would make the last two global conflicts look like nerds slap fighting

There is nothing North Korea does without the direction or consent of China. They prop up their economy, feed their people and share idealogy.

Their goal is to push the inevitable conflict back twenty years, when the gamble will be hedged in their favour.

If you look at the root cause of many large scale conflicts, it is a growing power attacking the old guard for dominance. The Chinese are patient and will have learned from the German's and Japanese the risk of playing your hand too soon.
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
Now they're saying that meetings between North Korea and South Korea will continue to consummate their deal begun at their previous meeting - with or without the US. China will also continue these regional talks with South Korea. More posturing of course, but does the US have the same clout that we had seventy years ago now that our pockets aren't quite so deep?
 

Gypsy Nirvana

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Spending $7 Trillion on a bunch of wars/proxy wars in the middle east hasn't helped balance any books.....now the USA is around 20 Trillion in debt or more to the guys that can just print the money...

Meanwhile China has been expanding massively economically and militarily, not by forced invasion and occupation but thru commerce and buying up natural resources globally....building instead of demolishing.

Now they're saying that meetings between North Korea and South Korea will continue to consummate their deal begun at their previous meeting - with or without the US. China will also continue these regional talks with South Korea. More posturing of course, but does the US have the same clout that we had seventy years ago now that our pockets aren't quite so deep?
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I suspect much of the cyber manipulation laid at Russia's door leads back to China, short of the interference in Eastern Europe. At the very least they subsidized the work.

What are the outcomes? Unrest in the United States. The separation of the UK from the herd. An east vs west mentality revived.

Who benefits?

Next year or perhaps further down the road, I expect Japan will encounter similar issues. They have already smelled the shit winds and efforts are underway to reform the peacenik nature of their constitution.

One doesn't forget genocide very quickly and for a 2000 year old entity, 70 years is a piss in the sea.

Colonization of Africa will continue to gain momentum and short of government blockade (like recent Canadian efforts) state corporations will continue to buy all profitable assets.
 

CaptainDankness

Well-known member
War with North Korea is war with China.

Surely even American ego would accept that is a situation to be avoided. It would make the last two global conflicts look like nerds slap fighting




There is nothing North Korea does without the direction or consent of China. They prop up their economy, feed their people and share idealogy.

Their goal is to push the inevitable conflict back twenty years, when the gamble will be hedged in their favour.

If you look at the root cause of many large scale conflicts, it is a growing power attacking the old guard for dominance. The Chinese are patient and will have learned from the German's and Japanese the risk of playing your hand too soon.

China's military ain't that good, they don't have the means to face off against the USA let alone NATO, it would be a slaughter. Their only hope would be to go all out nuclear and they won't do that over North Korea because there would be no China.

They may puff their chest out but they would have too much trouble with Japan to be a real threat to anyone.

And for North Korea?? I'm sure China makes a lot more money off of South Korea they have a damn good economy. North Korea can barely feed their people.

Our generals know a thing or two about war more so than any Chinese generals as we have the equipment and experience in modern warfare. Not to mention we have been watching them since the Cold War.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

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When you are dealing with a 4,000 year old civilization, you can be assured that patience, intelligence, knowledge and understanding are things that they don't lack.

....and yes, most likely they will see the west as prey that they are playing the 'long-game' to consume.

The national debt (or government debt) of the People's Republic of China is the total amount of money owed by the government and all state organizations and government branches of China. As of March 2016, it stands at approximately CN¥ 28 trillion (US$ 4.3 trillion), equivalent to about 41% of GDP.

According to the OECD, general government gross debt (federal, state, and local) in the United States in the fourth quarter of 2015 was $22.5 trillion (125% of GDP); subtracting out $5.25 trillion for intergovernmental federal debt to count only federal "debt held by the public" gives 96% of GDP.

*The figures kinda speak for themselves...
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
Spending $7 Trillion on a bunch of wars/proxy wars in the middle east hasn't helped balance any books.....now the USA is around 20 Trillion in debt or more to the guys that can just print the money...

Much of that debt is to China.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

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Administrator
Veteran
Interesting info pertaining to USA - Chinese debt.

The U.S. debt to China is $1.18 trillion as of February 2018. That's 19 percent of the $6.29 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $21 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself.

China holds more than the $1.06 trillion held by Japan. China increased its holdings from $1.05 trillion in January 2017.

Japan decreased its holdings from $1.10 trillion. One reason is because the dollar's value declined in 2017. China could buy more dollars for the same amount of yuan.

In November 2013, China held $1.3 trillion in U.S. debt. China reduced its holdings between then and 2017 to allow its currency, the yuan, to rise. To do that, China had to loosen its peg to the dollar. That made the yuan more attractive to forex traders in global markets.

Long-term, China wants the yuan to replace the U.S. dollar as the world's global currency. China is also responding to accusations of manipulation. Most countries want their currency values to fall so they can win the global currency wars. Countries with lower currency values export more. Their products cost less when sold in foreign countries.

Before February 2014, China had been strengthening the yuan to dollar conversion in response to U.S. pressure. But it reversed course when the dollar rose 25 percent in 2014 and 2015, creating an asset bubble.

Sine the yuan was pegged to the dollar, the increase dragged the yuan's value with it. China had to lower the yuan to remain competitive with other emerging markets that had free-floating currencies. In 2018, the dollar began weakening again. China can allow the yuan to rise without hurting its competitiveness with its neighbors.

China has consistently held more than $1 trillion in U.S. debt every year since 2010. That's when the Treasury Department changed how it measures the debt. Before July 2010, Treasury reports show China held $843 billion in debt. This makes it difficult to make long-term comparisons.

How China Became One of America's Biggest Bankers

China is more than happy to own almost a fifth of the U.S. debt owned by foreigners. Owning U.S. Treasury notes helps China's economy grow by keeping its currency weaker than the dollar. It keeps Chinese exports cheaper than U.S. products. China's highest priority is creating enough jobs for its 1.4 billion people.

The United States allowed China to become one of its biggest bankers because the American people enjoy low consumer prices. Selling debt to China funds federal government programs that allow the U.S. economy to grow. It also keeps U.S. interest rates low. But China's ownership of the U.S. debt is shifting the economic balance of power in its favor.

Why China Owns So Much U.S. Debt

China makes sure the yuan is always low relative to the the U.S. dollar. Why? Part of its economic strategy is to keep its export prices competitive. It does this by holding the yuan at a fixed rate compared to a "currency basket" of which the majority is the dollar.


When the dollar falls in value, the Chinese government uses dollars it has on hand to buy Treasuries. It receives these dollars from Chinese companies that receive them as payments for their exports. China's Treasury purchases increases demand for the dollar and thus its value.

Also, China promises to redeem dollars for yuan at the fixed rate. It must keep a good supply of Treasury notes in reserve to do that.

China's position as America's largest banker gives it some political leverage. Now and then, China threatens to sell part of its debt holdings. It knows that if it did so, U.S. interest rates would rise. That would slow U.S economic growth. China often calls for a new global currency to replace the dollar, which is used in most international transactions. China does this whenever the United States allows the value of the dollar to drop.

That makes the debt China holds less valuable.

What Happens If China Called in Its Debt Holdings

China would not call in its debt all at once. If it did so, the demand for the dollar would plummet like a rock. This dollar collapse would disrupt international markets even more than the 2008 financial crisis. China's economy would suffer along with everyone else's.

It's more likely that China would slowly begin selling off its Treasury holdings. Even when it just warns that it plans to do so, dollar demand starts to drop. That hurts China's competitiveness. As it raises its export prices, U.S. consumers would buy American products instead. China could only start this process if it further expands its exports to other Asian countries and increases domestic demand.

China's Debt-Holder Strategy Is Working

China's low-cost competitive strategy worked. Its economy grew 10 percent annually for the three decades before the recession. Now it's growing at 7 percent, a more sustainable rate. China has become the largest economy in the world. It's outpaced the United States and the European Union. China also became the world's biggest exporter in 2010. China needs this growth to raise its low standard of living. Despite its threats, China will continue to be one of the world's largest holders of U.S. debt.

* https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355




Much of that debt is to China.
 

Spaventa

...
Veteran
When you are dealing with a 4,000 year old civilization, you can be assured that patience, intelligence, knowledge and understanding are things that they don't lack.

The median IQ of the seventeen studies is 62 and represents the best estimate of the average intelligence of Australian Aborigines.

The Aboriginal culture in Australia is 60,000 years old.


The fact that the chinese just do the donkey work for western developers and inventors, or just steal the IP doesn't indicate great intelligence either. Most of them live like insects in a colony. They haven't even refined sticks into cutlery. The chinese aren't intelligent.
They are only good at perfunctory tasks that are suited to repetitive drone behaviour.
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
Decreasing the international dollar value is an effective way of decreasing international debt. It's an old game. In the seventies and eighties we were heavily indebted to Japan. Manipulating the dollar value down forced them to spend it here. Many big ticket items became japanese owned- New York real estate, Rockefeller Center etc.

The median IQ of the seventeen studies is 62 and represents the best estimate of the average intelligence of Australian Aborigines.

This is a racist notion. In fact, there is no true definition of intelligence and no way to accurately measure it across the cultural board. The Chinese have been quite clever at stealing and developing our technology and their manufacturing facilities and capabilities put many to shame. While they may still have many crude rice patty farmers and undeveloped areas, their accomplishments in the last twenty years are unmatched.
 

Spaventa

...
Veteran
This is a racist notion. In fact, there is no true definition of intelligence and no way to accurately measure it across the cultural board. The Chinese have been quite clever at stealing and developing our technology and their manufacturing facilities and capabilities put many to shame. While they may still have many crude rice patty farmers and undeveloped areas, their accomplishments in the last twenty years are unmatched.

:laughing: So you think stealing is clever? I hope you don't have children.

Here is the definition of intelligence. Doesn't seem racist at all.
intelligence
ɪnˈtɛlɪdʒ(ə)ns/Submit
noun
1.
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

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The Chinese on average come out consistently 5 points higher than most of the west and seven points higher on average intelligence than in the USA....you can argue till you are blue in the face about intelligence and if its being utilized, how its being measured etc, but international IQ ratings are all we really have to go on....

*https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

Yes they have 4000 years of what you could call a civilization behind them, so they were building roads/walls/civic institutions and palaces long before anything much was happening in the West.

Stereotyping a whole nation as being 'like insects in a colony' might not be such a bad thing since ants and bees seem to be able to live as many in a relatively secure and peaceful society.



The median IQ of the seventeen studies is 62 and represents the best estimate of the average intelligence of Australian Aborigines.

The Aboriginal culture in Australia is 60,000 years old.


The fact that the chinese just do the donkey work for western developers and inventors, or just steal the IP doesn't indicate great intelligence either. Most of them live like insects in a colony. They haven't even refined sticks into cutlery. The chinese aren't intelligent.
They are only good at perfunctory tasks that are suited to repetitive drone behaviour.
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
:laughing: So you think stealing is clever? I hope you don't have children.

Here is the definition of intelligence. Doesn't seem racist at all.
intelligence
ɪnˈtɛlɪdʒ(ə)ns/Submit
noun
1.
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

1, I think giving up the tech is stupid.

2, You're showing how much you don't know.
 

Spaventa

...
Veteran
The Chinese on average come out consistently 5 points higher than most of the west and seven points higher on average intelligence than in the USA....you can argue till you are blue in the face about intelligence and if its being utilized, how its being measured etc, but international IQ ratings are all we really have to go on....

*https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

Yes they have 4000 years of what you could call a civilization behind them, so they were building roads/walls/civic institutions and palaces long before anything much was happening in the West.

Stereotyping a whole nation as being 'like insects in a colony' might not be such a bad thing since ants and bees seem to be able to live as many in a relatively secure and peaceful society.

You disputed the official IQ figures for nations when I presented them in response to your claim that jews are highly intelligent. Now, regarding the chinese, you present them as your evidence?
 

packerfan79

Active member
Veteran
The median IQ of the seventeen studies is 62 and represents the best estimate of the average intelligence of Australian Aborigines.

The Aboriginal culture in Australia is 60,000 years old.


The fact that the chinese just do the donkey work for western developers and inventors, or just steal the IP doesn't indicate great intelligence either. Most of them live like insects in a colony. They haven't even refined sticks into cutlery. The chinese aren't intelligent.
They are only good at perfunctory tasks that are suited to repetitive drone behaviour.

I really doubt the average iq is 62. People with an iq that low, are unable to maintain themselves. Below 60 is considered mentally disabled ( or retarded for those who aren't politically correct)
 

Spaventa

...
Veteran
1, I think giving up the tech is stupid.

2, You're showing how much you don't know.

No, stealing isn't clever. Give up on that, for your own sake.


No, I showed you the definition of intelligence according to the dictionary.
 
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